OpenSuse - Licensed codecs

Hi!

Can someone elaborate on the following comment in the tvheadend forums:

Actually… come to think of it. OpenSUSE has massive issues in regards to the licensing of codecs stuff. Maybe to get the ‘proper’ ffmpeg (with codecs included) you need some 3rd party OpenSUSE repository or something? I think so. In fact that’s why I gave up trying to build anything on OpenSUSE’s build farm. They are too open. Wheras Canonical has paid for the necessary codec licenses for it’s user base. MP£, MP£G, [hx]264 and so on.

I just use tvheadend as a PVR so I do not necessarily need codecs, but I am interested in hos this stuff works. I know that on the Raspberry I use as frontend, I had to buy licenses for the MPEG2 codec. Who is “Canonical”?

No
But I just do
https://forums.opensuse.org/entry.php/160-openSUSE-13-2-Multimedia-Guide

Perfect! Thanks, was not aware of that page.

openSUSE has included the GStreamer MP3 codecs from Fluendo for a while now:


> rpm -qa | grep -i fluendo
gstreamer-fluendo-mp3-21-5.3.1.x86_64
gstreamer-0_10-fluendo-mp3-21-5.3.1.x86_64
pullin-fluendo-mp3-13.2-11.4.1.noarch
>

But, the video codecs have to be purchased, individually. :expressionless:
And, then there are further issues such as:

  • purchase one of Fluendo’s video players?
  • or use, for example Kaffeine and, point the backend to GStreamer rather than Xine?

Kaffeine doesn’t support gstreamer any more since years (only the KDE3 version did).

But all necessary codecs are available from Packman. There’s a codec package for VLC (vlc-codecs), there are additional codecs for gstreamer (for audio and video), and there should be libxine2-codecs too but that fails to build at the moment (it is available for 13.1, 13.2, and Tumbleweed though, just Leap is missing).

The company behind Ubuntu.

Btw, those remarks you quoted are outdated since a while.
ffmpeg is available meanwhile in openSUSE and on OBS. It’s stripped of restricted codecs, yes, but it is enough to build other software with full multimedia support.
A user just needs to install the full-featured ffmpeg libraries from Packman and enjoy support of all the restricted formats.

you don’t really need to purchase anything, most if not all of those codecs are open-sourced free as in free speech, the problem is patents and patent trolls, using these codecs on opensuse is the same as using vlc or mpc on windows, I’ve never heard of anyone being sued for using vlc on windows so you won’t be sued for using vlc on Linux, as MS does not ship vlc neither does opensuse yet I remember a few years ago MS was sued by a patent troll for including an mp3 codec from fraunhofer in windows.

I think the best description of this software patent headache is described by the ffmpeg developers
https://www.ffmpeg.org/legal.html
here are 2 important points of the above FAQ

Q: Bottom line: Should I be worried about patent issues if I use FFmpeg?
A: Are you a private user working with FFmpeg for your own personal purposes? If so, there is remarkably little reason to be concerned. Are you using FFmpeg in a commercial software product? Read on to the next question…
Q: Is it perfectly alright to incorporate the whole FFmpeg core into my own commercial product?
A: You might have a problem here. There have been cases where companies have used FFmpeg in their products. These companies found out that once you start trying to make money from patented technologies, the owners of the patents will come after their licensing fees. Notably, MPEG LA is vigilant and diligent about collecting for MPEG-related technologies.

you just answered a question I was going to ask :slight_smile:

I was wondering why if I had gstreamer-fluendo-mp3, ffmpeg and other packages installed, why I couldn’t play anything, and however, after upgrading them to Packman I could.

Depends on where you are living on the planet earth.*

The issue with patents is very country dependent and very dependent on the government/justice folks.
Taking the case of the European Union, there is no Europe-wide legal consistency with respect to this issue. For example in Finland you are probably legally OK installing libdvdcss but, in Germany nobody has to date crossed swords with the justice folks and taken this issue to the last legal instance.

Bottom line: IMHO this a dance on some very hot stones around the point of a needle . . . :expressionless:

but who will you purchase it from?
maybe give the poor ITU €20 or give ISO-IEC $20, as an ordinary user and for your personal use you are free to install what ever you want, now if you are using it in a commercial environment there are patent trolls that pay a percentage to the ITU and ISO-IEC for patent rights and go sue bushiness, or better said streaming to your tv is fine streaming to a large screen where you sell tickets to is not, but who do you pay money to?

afaik libdvdcss is fine in Germany it’s the US/UK with their anti DRM laws that’s problematic, I know that removing any form of restriction from a digital file is a crime in the US, I remember a few years ago a cryptography expert was arrested in the US for giving a lecture on how to remove drm from pdf files (Adobe filed suit)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Elcom_Ltd.

On Fri 06 Nov 2015 12:56:02 AM CST, I A wrote:

but who will you purchase it from?
maybe give the poor ITU €20 or give ISO-IEC $20, as an ordinary user
and for your personal use you are free to install what ever you want,
now if you are using it in a commercial environment there are patent
trolls that pay a percentage to the ITU and ISO-IEC for patent rights
and go sue bushiness, or better said streaming to your tv is fine
streaming to a large screen where you sell tickets to is not, but who do
you pay money to?

afaik libdvdcss is fine in Germany it’s the US/UK with their anti DRM
laws that’s problematic, I know that removing any form of restriction
from a digital file is a crime in the US, I remember a few years ago a
cryptography expert was arrested in the US for giving a lecture on how
to remove drm from pdf files (Adobe filed suit)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Elcom_Ltd.

Hi
The owners, Fluendo…


Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 | GNOME 3.10.1 | 3.12.48-52.27-default
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The United Nations Organisation ITU and especially the Telecommunications part of that organisation, the ITU-T, do not hold any patent rights; and neither do 3GPP and the same applies to the 3GPP partner organisations: ARIB, ATIS, CCSA, ETSI, TSDSI, TTA, TTC . . .
The ITU-T includes a statement similar to this in their newer standards documents:* INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS
The ITU draws attention to the possibility that the practice or implementation of this Recommendation may involve the use of a claimed Intellectual Property Right.
The ITU takes no position concerning the evidence, validity or applicability of claimed Intellectual Property Rights, whether asserted by ITU members or others outside of the Recommendation development process.
As of the date of approval of this Recommendation, the ITU had/had not received notice of intellectual property, protected by patents, which may be required to implement this Recommendation. However, implementors are cautioned that this may not represent the latest information and are therefore strongly urged to consult the TSB patent database.*

In the case of H.264/MPEG-4, the patent pool is managed by MPEG LA, LLC based in Denver, Colorado (and, they are not affiliated with the MPEG group); members of the patent pool include the Fraunhofer Society (known for their invention of MP3 which is now largely patent-free).Therefore, any patent fees payable should be settled by means of an invoice issued by the MPEG LA, LLC (in the case of Linux on a per user basis). >:)

Given the legal issues around DRM and in particular local and international copyright laws which are currently being changed, modified, updated and messed about by the European Union, the Open Source community may need a similar tactic for lbdvdcss . . . >:)

Please note that the Wikipedia URL needs the full stop following “Ltd”.

Yes, and this is interesting:The case raised some concerns particularly since it involved an individual being prosecuted for activities that were fully legal in the country where they occurred.

Bruce Schneier wrote the following in the May 15, 2001 Crypto-Gram (only a short extract):The Futility of Digital Copy Prevention
*Music, videos, books on the Internet! Freely available to anyone without paying! The entertainment industry sees services like Napster as the death of its business, and it’s using every technical and legal means possible to prevail against them. They want to implement widespread copy prevention of digital files, so that people can view or listen to content on their computer but can’t copy or distribute it.

Abstractly, it is an impossible task. All entertainment media on the Internet (like everything else on the Internet) is just bits: ones and zeros. Bits are inherently copyable, easily and repeatedly. If you have a digital file – text, music, video, or whatever – you can make as many copies of that file as you want, do whatever you want with the copies. This is a natural law of the digital world, and makes copying on the Internet different from copying Rolex watches or Louis Vuitton luggage.

What the entertainment industry is trying to do is to use technology to contradict that natural law. They want a practical way to make copying hard enough to save their existing business. But they are doomed to fail.*

Please note that the Wikipedia URL needs the full stop following “Ltd”.

I put the proper url it was a php bug not including it, when I noticed it it was too late I couldn’t fix it.

Regarding copyright law there are ~200 countries in this world the US is less then 5% of it, it’s laws are meaningless across the globe, I find it nasty and hypocritical that Sklyarov was imprisoned for … I have no idea why as at the time Elcomsoft’s app he wrote was being advertised and sold legally in the US, my point was bypassing DRM might be illegal in some parts of this planet but not in most of it.

I remember a few months ago Cisco systems said they would cover the mpeg4 licensing for an open source h264+aac decoder that was supposed to be bundled with Firefox, I guess it was too expensive as that binary blob can only be used with Firefox hello, when it first came out I tested it on a windows box and it did decode general mp4 files sadly not any more.

Just to add some spice to this discussion, the Redmond folks have restricted the ability of Windows 10 to play DVD movies:

  • Yes, there is a "free
    " App available from the Redmond Store but, only if you have upgraded from a Non-Enterprise Windows 7/8/8.1 version. - No, the "free
    " App will not remain “payment-less” – the Redmond folks will require that you pay money at some point in time before the “free” Windows 10 upgrade ends.

And, not to mention that if one wishes to play Blu-ray movies on a Windows box, then one has to purchase a commercial player anyway . . .

Bottom line: “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

In this v42.0 Firefox (64-bit) there’s an OpenH264-Videocodec Add-on supplied by Cisco Systems, Inc. which happily plays MP4 video files.http://www.openh264.org/

The OpenH264 URL also points to a Mozilla blog entry related to this issue:
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/10/30/video-interoperability-on-the-web-gets-a-boost-from-ciscos-h-264-codec/
And, the OpenH264 URL also points to the Cisco source code available from GitHub:
https://github.com/cisco/openh264

I’ve also noticed that the v42.0 Firefox (64-bit) also happily plays Apple QuickTime movie files . . .

In this v42.0 Firefox (64-bit) there’s an OpenH264-Videocodec Add-on supplied by Cisco Systems, Inc. which happily plays MP4 video files.

are you sure it’s not gstreamer (or ffmpeg) from packman playing those files, as a lot of users complain that firefox won’t play mp4 files with the default oss codecs.
do a test remove all packman and try to open an mp4 file if the openh264 really works we won’t need gstreamer or ffmpeg, unfortunately openh264 is hardwired to only work in firefox hello.
I might be wrong as I am basing this on personal experience ie Firefox will not decode h264+aac outside of firefox hello and firefox needs the non-free gstreamer or ffmpeg libraries to decode h264+aac.

I’ve also noticed that the v42.0 Firefox (64-bit) also happily plays Apple QuickTime movie files . . .

that’s not news seeing how the iso-iec and the itu-it licensed or just used the mov container format from apple as the mpeg4 default file container I think it’s defined in the mpeg4 part 14 it’s been some time since I read the mpeg specs.

Yes, I did have some video library files installed from Packman – the k3b warning was the culprit . . . :shame:
Doing a simple uninstall and then run the MP4 via Firefox didn’t change the behaviour but, logging in to another user confirmed that Firefox will not play MP4 on it’s own . . . :frowning:

Years ago (how many? Can’t remember but was just before openSUSE started providing Fluendo, in those days ffmpeg was the only codec set available) I read that Fluendo provided two sets of codecs… one FOSS which was limited in size and performance while still selling better performing.

So, you’re getting the free stuff from openSUSE but have the option to go buy better if you wish.

TSU