How do you feel about Opensuse using Systemd as the init system?

Opensuse begun using Systemd as the init system in version 12.1, replacing the previous System V. Version 12.2 continued to use it and 12.3 has too. Many Gnu/Linux users are reluctant towards the adoption of Systemd, Debian has chosen to not use it as its default but instead have it as optional package. The last version of Opensuse to use System V was 11.4, and it remains a very good release, still firing on, currently under evergreen. Some people think that all versions of Opensuse since the adoption of Systemd have been lousy in comparison to what 11.4 was/is. What do you think about Systemd?

I’m not voting at the moment, because none of the choices fits.

I don’t have strong opinions, but I do care about that part of the system.

I have adapted to systemd. However, I’m not at all sure why the change. It seems to me that Sysv-init worked quite well. It was a kind of swiss army knife, in the sense that it was highly versatile. I’m am not sure whether we may have lost some of that versatility. Perhaps startup is faster with systemd, but the difference does not seem great.

So I voted, but systemd was selected by our openSUSE developers because they feel it is the direction we need to go. It does not matter what we think but many other reputable distributions have also switched to using systemd. Its not good to be the first, but it might be real bad to be the last SystemV hold out. The same really holds true for using Grub2 as well. So, I do believe systemd has reduced startup time, but its too complicated for the average user to use in my opinion and is not properly supported for users to work with it in YaST. YaST needs to do more with systemd in place of what has been taken from YaST and the run level stuff.

For users wanting more fun with systemd, I have a few blogs on related subjects:

  1. The after.local file stopped working with the switch to systemd: systemd and using the after.local script in openSUSE 12.1 - Blogs - openSUSE Forums

  2. dkms (from Packman) stopped working with the switch to systemd: DKMS & systemd - How to get Dynamic Kernel Module Support to work in openSUSE 12.1 - Blogs - openSUSE Forums

  3. The APC UPS monitor got switched to using systemd: apcupsd & apcupsd-gui (gapcmon) fails to load under systemd and the new openSUSE 12.3 - Blogs - openSUSE Forums

Thank You,

From a home PC perspective it doesn’t matter whether it is init or systemd.:sarcastic:

On 04/05/2013 11:56 PM, knightron wrote:
> Question: How do you feel about Opensuse using Systemd?

i need one more possibility to vote for:

-Though I know this poll will have absolutely no impact on which
(systemv or systemd) is used in the future, I really wish the poll
starter knew how to spell both openSUSE and systemd prior to starting it.


dd

the only negative noticed is the system.journal,

why is the size of directory /var/log/journal/<32bit#>/
and file /var/log/journal/<32bit#>/system.journal not limited by default?

It is limited to 190MB or something. I saw that message when i exited booting splash/plymouth by hitting esc

Systemd feels faster and I can’t see any disadavantages or drawbacks over the old init system. I like it. :slight_smile:

From the speed point of view I did not see any what so ever advantage of Systemd vs. SysVinit. The very fact that somebody here stated that it would have been a bad choice not to shift in time when all bigger distributions change means for me that the two systems are NOT simply a “plugin”, therefore exchangeable easily one with the other. The adoption of Systemd up to know takes away in my view a big amount of control and of openness (aggressively paralleling services means you cannot control what is going on). Debugging of the boot process gets AFAIU more difficult and the fact of less control for the user is going for my taste in the wrong direction.

As long as with Systemd there will not be a distinct and very evident advantage visible to all users and programmers, this will be another step in a Window-izing direction (where window-izing is referring to the lack of quality and safety of a well known commercial product).
Would this be the first event of this kind? No, if you think of it, both KDE and Gnome did “huge steps forward technologically” but with neither I did notice a gain in usability, reliability, safety and user control.

Thus, I will be eager to “worship” Systemd adoption as soon as one distinctive advantage visible to me as a user. That would boil down on “never change a winning team”. But for practical reasons one will have to adopt what the distribution will decide.
So we did with KDE (and I am still waiting to see that “huge” step forward in usability and intuitiveness") while I leave this judgement on Gnome to assiduous Gnome users. Besides: the argument “we had to change because all major distributions did” isn’t that a bit like saying “eat more sh…, millions of flies cannot be wrong!”? :sarcastic:
As a user I hope for the best and trust that there is no such thing that cannot be “turned back in time”. For voting on that it is just too early.
http://www.metatags.org/images/error_cartoon.gif

That is a very compelling reason to change as obviously more people would be using , reporting bugs ,fixing bugs for systemd rather than init. Why are all the shifting from Unix ==> Linux servers. It is simply because Linux is being used by many nowadays.

Bugreporting could be of course also higher with systemd:

  • a system more complex is more prone to error and less maintainable by the very administrators?
  • a higher number of bugs because of recency?
  • introduction might be driven by a higher commercial interest? - since administrators might be more frequently forced to fall back on commercial technical service
  • Unix vs Linux servers: there where other advantages that caused the change: island vendor bound solutions that where costly. Incompatible flavours and derivatives.

Linux instead was open, had the aim to run on whatever machine is breathing out there from server to Raspberry Pi. And had the GPL which was one of the reasons of success.

As I said, happy to see systemd if it brings a real advantage and not just complexity and/or closure.

On 2013-04-06 11:06, jovin wrote:
>
> Systemd -feels- faster and I can’t see any disadavantages or drawbacks
> over the old init system. I like it. :slight_smile:

You would perhaps think differently if are not a home user but an
administrator.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 01:56:02 +0000, vazhavandan wrote:

> From a home PC perspective it doesn’t matter whether it is init or
> systemd.:sarcastic:

There are plenty of people who get hung up on if their PC boots in 30
seconds or 90 seconds.

I’ve no idea why, but there you go.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

There is the thing though, most of us are home users not admins.
I dont give a cxrap abouyt the backends as long as it gets me from point a to point b

I’m not voting right now. The systemd Genie popped out of the bottle with a choice of six questions: a like, a dislike, a don’t care, and three wishes. Hmm, all asking for emotional responses. So, how do I feel about openSUSE using systemd?

I don’t like or dislike systemd, but I do care or wish that it starts my system every day after a successful installation, reliably and in a timely manner, until the hardware fails. I’m not interested in BSD’s facilities with or without Slackware’s support, Ubuntu’s adopted Upstart or unspecified other/equivalent facility.

The people it will affect right now are those with in-depth knowledge of operating with system V, and those with non-default setup that now relies on fast approaching obsolescence. For the rest of us, it’s probably too early to judge whether the right decision was made by openSUSE wrt user experience, and noone asked me to read a systemd manifesto and vote.

The advantages and benefits of systemd look ok in theory for the system developers, and the risks of being alone on system V could be fatal for a distro (unless you are debian or a dependent distro), with a diminishing skill set and no way to hold onto contributors.

On 2013-04-06 22:26, consused wrote:

> The people it will affect right now are those with in-depth knowledge
> of operating with system V, and those with non-default setup that now
> relies on fast approaching obsolescence. For the rest of us, it’s
> probably too early to judge whether the right decision was made by
> openSUSE wrt user experience, and noone asked me to read a systemd
> manifesto and vote.

Absolutely.

> The advantages and benefits of systemd look ok in theory for the
> system developers, and the risks of being alone on system V could be
> fatal for a distro (unless you are debian or a dependent distro), with a
> diminishing skill set and no way to hold onto contributors.

Possibly.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

Yes, but still speculation. The other option would have been to include systemd but not as the default. That could have split resources and affected their motivation.

That’s my opinion too.

2 more cents:

Once I understood the very basics of systemd, I was able to compose service/mount/… - files for easy cases.
For a single “ordinary” service the configuration in systemd looks rather simple.
But if you have to setup some dozens or hundreds of services in a operating system; well … good luck, that you do not end in some kind of dependency hell.
During my tests with the milestones/beta/RCs of OS12.3 I had often “works - works not - works - works not” experiences in booting, that I could not track down to a level, where I would have dared to open a bugreport for.
I can only guess, that it was some kind of timing or dependency problem with the parallel start of services. It will be hard work for the developers in the future, to sort out these problems, when all packages have made the switch from systemV- to systemd-startup-files. And as probably all distros using systemd will have a different structure of services and their dependencies, it will hardly be possible to “recycle” the unit-files of other distros to save work.

Hendrik

I’m not voting right now. I know to little and I do not have the deep technical knowledge to make a informed vote. I guess I use what come’s with the dist.

I have follow some of the post about Debian and comments there before their decision. I’m suspicious about the developers behind systemd and their behavior.

Regards

On 2014-04-19 14:26, jonte1 wrote:

> I’m not voting right now. I know to little and I do not have the deep
> technical knowledge to make a informed vote. I guess I use what come’s
> with the dist.

Voting is futile. You will be assimilated. Correction: you were already
assimilated. >:-)


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)