How do you feel about Opensuse using Systemd as the init system?

English Open Chat
21

I have now voted – against systemd. However, I don’t expect my opinion to count for anything.

For many years, I used to shop with Sears catalog. I would order items. Then, two hours later, I could pick them up at the main Chicago warehouse. Then they computerized everything and speeded it up, so that it took two days.

Systemd reminds me of that. It speeds up everything compared to systemd, but somehow startup and shutdown seem slower.

It used to be that I could restart “sendmail” or “sshd” or various other services by sending a SIGHUP to the running daemon. But systemd does not like that, so it seems that I have to use “systemctl restart” instead.

Now, with 13.1, when I logout my “ecryptfs” Private encrypted directory is no longer unmounted. This seems to be due to a new “feature” in systemd (the systemd user manager). Systemd seems to be like a cancer, slowly spreading into everything. Whatever happened to the old KISS (keep it simple) principle?

Still, I can live with systemd even while not being an enthusiastic supporter. After all, opensuse mostly exists as a testbed for SUSE enterprise.

22

Yes I was already assimilated. Voting is futile.

I reflect to another post in this tread;

but systemd was selected by our openSUSE developers because they feel it is the direction we need to go."

If I didn’t have any influence in their choice maybe I can ask questions about the developers information based upon their decision making.

I repeat, -I don’t have the deep knowledge but that is not my main-path of work. Not either as a private user writing here. :stuck_out_tongue:

Regards

23

It is a feeling that I have as well. I cant see the goal of the development but it make me suspicious. A Palace revolution maybe?:wink:

Regards

24

On 2014-04-19 16:36, jonte1 wrote:

> Yes I was already -assimilated-. Voting is -futile-.
>
> I reflect to another post in this tread;
>
> but systemd was selected by our openSUSE developers because
> they feel it is the direction we need to go."

Yep.

> If I didn’t have any influence in their choice maybe I can ask
> questions about the developers information based upon their decision
> making.

You certainly do not have any influence, nor me, nor (almost) anybody.
This is not a democracy, voting is futile.

You can ask how what they did is supposed to work. Sometimes they
answer. You may complain that what they did works worse that what we
had, and they will refuse to improve the thing to the previous feature
level, unless they personally need that feature. Complaining is futile,
they laugh at you.

There are wonderful exceptions, of course.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

25

Señor Carlos/Robin_Listas.

+1

I don’t expect anything ells then laugher in this forum from developers. Or maybe I should pinpoint to Red Hat forum and home of systemd. On the other hand I may struk on gold here. Someone is always on top, -in every organization.

Regards

26

Making the point that “voting is futile” is futile, this isn’t an election or survey by the decision maker. It’s really just an opinion survey conducted by an interested user. :slight_smile:

27

Yes and…?

Regards

28

On 2014-04-19 19:36, jonte1 wrote:

> I don’t expect anything ells then laugher in this forum from
> developers. Or maybe I should pinpoint to Red Hat forum and home of
> systemd. On the other hand I may struk on gold here. Someone is always
> on top, -in every organization.

I would not say that much, either. Most of the devs in this forum are
quite receptive, or at least reasonable.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

29

Hmm…

Regards

30

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 17:36:01 +0000, jonte1 wrote:

> I don’t expect anything ells then laugher in this forum from developers.

You might consider that there are developers who spend a fair amount of
time here helping users with things like wireless networking issues
before you make a crack like that.

Let’s keep it civil and not engage in personal attacks, whether against
named individuals or people filling a role in the project.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

31

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:36:01 +0000, jonte1 wrote:

> consused;2637955 Wrote:
>> Making the point that “voting is futile” is futile, this isn’t an
>> election or survey by the decision maker. It’s really just an opinion
>> survey conducted by an interested user. :slight_smile:
>
> Yes and…?

It’s rather like the occasional “random polls” that come up on Facebook
and elsewhere with people begging for votes “to prove that openSUSE is
#1” published at “randomlinuxuser.blogspot.com” - because those polls
carry so much weight and matter so very much.

Just like distrowatch rankings are very important - if you want to judge
which page on the distrowatch website is the most popular page (some
people mistakenly think it has something to do with distribution
popularity - which is utter nonsense, as they measure at best the number
of hits per page from unique IP addresses per day (the counter only
counts one hit per IP address each day, so it’s not a strict hit counter).

The illogic that says that it measures distribution popularity is
nonsense - logically, if I visit the openSUSE, SUSE, and Fedora pages on
a day, then those are my three favourite distributions, all equally so.
Except that I have openSUSE on 3 systems here and SLES on one, so in
reality, openSUSE is my favourite distribution here. Unless I boot up a
couple CentOS virtual machines to test something - the Centos is my
second favourite distribution on that day.

If you want to actually contribute to the discussion about systemd, you
have to discuss that with the developers, and they tend to discuss
development issues on the project and development mailing lists.

But I would also not expect the systemd decision to be reversed because a
handful of users don’t like it. The decision to switch was talked about
prior to it being made, and the (IMNSHO) proper course of action is to
address the issues people have with it, rather than rip and replace it
with something else. Just because you or I don’t know the specific
reasons for the change doesn’t mean the reasons weren’t good. It just
means we don’t know what the factors were that played into the decision.

In the end, though, someone’s got to make a decision on that. Since
those who hate it and want it to die in a fire weren’t participants in
the discussion about the change, your input wasn’t considered. That’s
not actually that surprising, if you think about it. :slight_smile:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

32

Well, a poll is just that: A poll.

A famous quotation about polls by one of Canada’s Prime Ministers, Diefenbaker, back in the late 1950s or early 1960s, went something like:

“Dogs know what polls are good for.”
rotfl!

33

Well Jim H.
I don’t know that I have named any developers/personal attacks. Except Linus/Kay and systemd.

There is a lot of people that I have write to in the forum that have ideas.

Oh yes, -I welcome devs who spares a fair amount of time… I don’t request their name :).

My credentials?

Regards

34

Yes Polar dogs here.

Regads.

35

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 23:46:02 +0000, Fraser Bell wrote:

> hendersj;2638018 Wrote:
>>
>> It’s rather like the occasional “random polls” that come up on Facebook
>> and elsewhere with people begging for votes “to prove that openSUSE is
>> #1” published at “randomlinuxuser.blogspot.com” - because those polls
>> carry so much weight and matter so very much.
>>
>>
> Well, a poll is just that: A poll.

Yes. But “random poll on the internet for the best Linux distribution
evah” is not exactly a scientific or even significant poll. :slight_smile:

> A famous quotation about polls by one of Canada’s Prime Ministers,
> Diefenbaker, back in the late 1950s or early 1960s, went something like:
>
> “Dogs know what polls are good for.”
> rotfl!

LOL

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

36

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 23:56:01 +0000, jonte1 wrote:

> Well Jim H.
> I don’t know that I have named any developers/personal attacks. Except
> Linus/Kay and systemd.

You haven’t, but you’ve singled out “developers” as a collective group,
and I’m telling you that that’s not acceptable. As I said “whether
against named individuals or people filling a role in the project.”

I won’t tolerate attacks against an individual or against a group of
individuals. We’ve had people here who have, in the past, been warned
against attacking “the GNOME developers,” “the KDE developers,” and other
groups who contribute a lot to the openSUSE project and OSS in general.

> There is a lot of people that I have write to in the forum that have
> ideas.

Which is fine. Sharing ideas is fine. Engaging in attacks against
individuals or groups - that’s not fine.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

37

Hi Jim H, I think that you are out in the blue. I don’t mind to take that discussion.

Forewarned is forearmed! :wink:

“singled out “developers” as a collective group”. Yes they are. Pinpoint some of them will draw me to a personal level. Goals?

Are users a “collective group”? Not? Single out some of them then… Goals?

Are the Linux Foundation a group? Goals?

Catch-22

I stay corrected if you want. But that will not change my mind about systemd and “Palace revolution”.

Regards

38

On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:56:01 +0000, jonte1 wrote:

> Hi Jim H, I think that you are out in the blue. I don’t mind to take
> that discussion.

“I don’t expect anything ells then laugher in this forum from developers.”

That comes across as an attack of sorts against the developers.

If it’s not intended as such, then you’ve nothing to worry about. I’m
simply warning you (and others reading) that attacks against an
individual or group are not allowed here.

> I stay corrected if you want. But that will not change my mind about
> systemd and “Palace revolution”.

You’re more than welcome to continue to try to effect change in the
distribution, so long as your attempts to do so here don’t involve
disparaging those who are involved in creating it. If you don’t do that,
then you’ve nothing to worry about.

You may wish to review the forum rules in the link in my signature.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

39

There is nothing wrong with singling out people or projects if they are perceived to be the issue - giving “immunity” to someone just because they’ve “contributed”? Absurd.

Let’s get one thing straight; you nor they have no right to be offended.

40

I did think that Jim over-reacted. But let’s not make a big fight over this. How about we get back to discussing “systemd”.