I confess I was tired when I wrote the above … and having had a chance to “step back”, and after having made some minor format changes (which I think make it easier to read) I think I am now more able to submit the openSUSE configure graphics wiki to the review process.
Technical comments on it are welcome.
I have deleted some not used “” and “]” at external links in the wiki article of oldcpu.
Should comments (that do not fit in the “comment” field of editing) made here in this thread in the forums or on the corresponding discussion page of the wiki article?
Greetings
pistazienfresser
I need to post on the wiki subforum area, advising that I created a new wiki as a direct output of an action placed on me in an openSUSE-11.3 bug report, where the wiki should be in place before 11.3 GM is released (mid-July).
I’ve got a couple more checks I want to do, and then I’ll post on the wiki subforum page “with cap in hand” asking for help to make the wiki page operational/approved for use by mid-July.
@oldcpu: So you want no edits of others till then? Or only edits that have no real effect of the content like deleting the double at external links?
Greetings pistazienfresser
Please go ahead and edit ALL aspects … format, content … etc …
But if you believe MAJOR technical changes are needed, then please can you advise here before making such changes, as I have strong views as to what should be tried first technically, and we do not want to end up where someone makes a change, I restore things back, they make the change again, I restore back again, they make the change again, I restore back again … etc … adinfinitum.
… by chatting here first, we can get agreement as to a superior approach, and then implement it.
Certainty!
I had not even thought of real changes to the issue of graphic cards. Sorry if I had not made clear that.
What you wrote about is (almost) an edit war and that is very, very unpleasing! And I have never seen something like that on subpage of an user page.
Greetings pistazienfresser
I think the big “hastle” , besides formating/structure compliance, will come in terms of integration to exisiting already in place and in some cases already approved wiki.
For example I note this wiki on configuring graphic cards which is already approved.
Yet from my technical view, that wiki, while it has useful content and good links, is incomplete for openSUSE-11.2 and earlier, and it is simply out of date for openSUSE-11.3. i.e. its not good enough… But I think given there is already a “Configuring_graphics_cards” wiki, instead of accepting the wiki I created, I will be asked to merge what I wrote into the exising one. I do not want to do that.
From my perpsective, the existing recently approved wiki on configuring graphic cards should be scrapped/replaced.
For example it uses the ‘init 3’ and ‘init 5’ method to go to run level 3 and back to run level 5, which is in my experience not as reliable as a simple reboot direct to run level 3. The problem with ‘init 3’ is dependant on the memory state of one’s PC when it was sent, it is possible that all the modules that need be unloaded (when one goes to init 3) are not unloaded, and hence subsequent commands can fail. Its a “bear” to figure out when that happens, and it only happens rarely, but I’ve seen it happen to users in the past 5 years over a dozen times.
In truth, the ONLY time I use init 3 and init 5 is when testing from a liveCD where a reboot is not possible (without wiping memory).
And hence I believe that my not using init 3 and init 5 in the wiki is going to stir up a controversy.
It (the existing wiki) also does not offer other technical solutions (other than the proprietary driver approach) and I dislike that.
I have not sat down and thought through all the possibilities for users coming up with technical divergences of opinion, but I think if I took the time to think about it, I could come up with more.
Maybe you try to ‘talk’ to the user that has copied the main part (=without history and former versions) of the old article to the new wiki…-wiki
SDB:Configuring graphics cards (Difference between fist and last revisions till copy and past action)
and the (main) author of the original article
Revision history of “Configuring graphics cards” - openSUSE
?
The ways I could think of are (with in my view descending preference)
But maybe you could bring the other users/authors to discuss this issue here or on one of the three possible wiki discussion pages?
Good luck
pistazienfresser
All good ideas - but the problem is, I do not have the time. … Serious. I do not have the time.
These sorts of discussions, back and forth, to come with an optimal compromise, take time. Lots and lots of time.
Thats why earlier I was thinking of just deleting everything, because I know I do not have the time for this.
To be frank, I think:
;)Do not make to much thoughts: in most cases the wiki-principle just works - as long as it comes not to ethics, religion and politics (including law politics) - do you want to discuss issues like that in your article??? 
Just trust a bit in the principle of Open Content like you may trust in the principle of Open Software!
It you do not like discussions on this stage of your writing: I will leave your article alone until you tell me to do the opposite - and I may bet others users will do so, too: I asked in the forums everyone to take a look at the small hplip article (I rewrote a bit) and so long I ‘heard’ nothing about the content of that article…:\
Just trust yourself and the other openSUSE users!
Good luck
pistazienfresser
I added a section 3.4.1 into the Configure openSUSE X Window Graphics that I wrote where that section strictly references the old Configuring Graphics Cards wikiwhich I believe is mostly limited to ATI and nVidia hardware.
I confess I have problems with some of the links that fall out of those guides. Those guides have not been updated for 11.3. The ATI guide that was transitioned (last time I looked) make no mention of the need to remove an old fglrx rpm before custom building and installing the proprietary ATI driver, and indeed even when falling back to the VESA or Radeon driver, at times it can be necessary to remove the fglrx rpm. Those guides don’t reference the “Xorg -configure” method. Those guides don’t reference the technique to copy xorg.conf.install to xorg.conf. … etc … But I don’t have the energy to convince those wiki writers that that needs updating. Such suggestions take tact and patience, and those are qualities I am still endeavoring to improve on as I advance in years. 
About /etc/X11/config.d, I see a problem there, RC1 is running xorg 1.8.0, according to the logs, 1.8.1 has been released and I assume the final 11.3 release will have it, hopefully we will have it in RC2 to have a chance to get our hands on it Release announcement is here:
[ANNOUNCE] xorg-server 1.8.1]([ANNOUNCE] xorg-server 1.8.1)
Interesting part here:
If you are upgrading from 1.8.0, please beware that the xorg.conf.d
configuration has changed slightly, the server now supports
$datadir/X11/xorg.conf.d and $sysconfdir/X11/xorg.conf.d for configuration
files. While this should not interfere with your local configuration on an
install from the tarball, distributors should take care of this new
behaviour.
I cant find any information on this but my guess is we will have one place for system defaults and one place to put our overrides?
That would make sense and solve a problem for the Arch wiki that recommends users to make their own configurations using xorg.conf. They want to have /etc/X11/config.d left clear for system snippets. That doesn’t appear to be the case so far on openSUSE, as I doubt our devs will add many snippets there. However, it could be a useful separation for future or maybe just another complication for users. 
If my memory serves me right (and my memory is notorious for being WRONG) we will not see RC2. My recollection is RC2 is always an internal release that is NOT released to the public.
I am a bit skeptical that 1.8.1 will be included at this late stage, although I concede its not impossible.
But given users will not be able to test 1.8.1 before the GM version, I don’t think it is likely to be included in 11.3 GM version… but thats just speculation on my part.
That would make sense and solve a problem for the Arch wiki that recommends users to make their own configurations using xorg.conf. They want to have /etc/X11/config.d left clear for system snippets. That doesn’t appear to be the case so far on openSUSE, as I doubt our devs will add many snippets there. However, it could be a useful separation for future or maybe just another complication for users.
Yes I don’t really like the idea to do changes in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d and adding /etc/X11/xorg.conf seems to acquire to you to add a complete conf there. But I found out a way to get it to work the way I would like it to work, add a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/1-xorg.conf in that file you can add sections one by one to get the stuff work, but hopefully RC2 will offer something better.
I think you mean 11.4 ? or 12.0 ?
At this very late stage in 11.3, I serious doubt (I would bet on it) that there will be no such changes. Its all about fixing major bugs now and not about introducing new features. Really it HAS TO BE THAT WAY.
Hank, don’t hold your breath. As oldcpu points out, 1.8.1 probably shouldn’t make GM. Adequate testing time may be an issue, given other severities to overcome. However, never say never…
$datadir/X11/xorg.conf.d and $sysconfdir/X11/xorg.conf.d for configuration
Hmmm,
I hope they do put it in RC2. This certainly sounds interesting.
Originally Posted by oldcpu
Originally Posted by hank_se View Post
About /etc/X11/config.d, I see a problem there, RC1 is running xorg 1.8.0, according to the logs, 1.8.1 has been released and I assume the final 11.3 release will have it, hopefully we will have it in RC2 to have a chance to get our hands on it
If my memory serves me right (and my memory is notorious for being WRONG) we will not see RC2. My recollection is RC2 is always an internal release that is NOT released to the public.
I am a bit skeptical that 1.8.1 will be included at this late stage, although I concede its not impossible.
But given users will not be able to test 1.8.1 before the GM version, I don’t think it is likely to be included in 11.3 GM version… but thats just speculation on my part.
Seems that’s the way I recall things too. So for us this if this Xorg 1.8.1 is installed as an upgrade later, 11.3 is going to be a real barrel of (insert here) fun.
Too bad we couldn’t have had this sooner.
Yeah, that’s sort of what I’ve been doing, adding stuff right into various 50-txt’s. While installing your old xorg.conf will work I have concerns about the newbies. Even now despite all of oldcpu’s & others work I still think all we have for this are a series of shots in the dark.
I dumped the issue of how to integrate what I wrote (for a new wiki) on the wiki team to sort:
Proposed new Graphic Card wiki to close action - openSUSE Forums
… hopefully I don’t upset too many people, but I’m closing down the shutters in anticipation of a major storm. 