Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

dwightpaige79 · June 9, 2010, 4:18am

# sax2 -r -m 0=nvidia
If 'sax2' is not a typo you can use command-not-found to lookup the package that contains it, like this:
    cnf sax2

# sax2
If 'sax2' is not a typo you can use command-not-found to lookup the package that contains it, like this:
    cnf sax2

# Sax2
If 'Sax2' is not a typo you can use command-not-found to lookup the package that contains it, like this:
    cnf Sax2

# Sax2 -r -m 0=nvidia
If 'Sax2' is not a typo you can use command-not-found to lookup the package that contains it, like this:
    cnf Sax2

# cnf sax2
sax2: command not found
                     
# cnf Sax2
Sax2: command not found

Did I miss the memo??? If one has on-board nvidia graphics how does one configure nouveau or even vesa? If I have a problem with nvidia driver I constantly end up with either a 640 by 480 display [1680x1050 is norm] or a garbled display like nv driver provides… Oh and “Xorg -configure” doesn’t seem to work either.

What the heck am I missing… I mean no sax2??? That’s causing me a lot of lost time that could be spent testing. How do we configure non-proprietary graphics in openSuSE now a days?

Edit: I’m sure this is something I just missed. But I do need to know WHAT I missed.

deano_ferrari · June 9, 2010, 5:22am

Yes, sax2 has been deprecated since openSUSE 11.2, and removed from openSUSE 11.3 entriely.

[opensuse-factory] The Future of SaX2](http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-12/msg00017.html)

I agree with you, that there needs to be a basic tool provided to assist here. Some users will still need to use manual configuration, and so ‘Xorg -configure’ should still work to create a basic configuration. Refer to this guide:

http://forums.opensuse.org/information-new-users/advanced-how-faq-read-only/438705-opensuse-graphic-card-practical-theory-guide-users.html

There is a couple of sections specifically mentioning 11.3.

AFAIU, the legacy /etc/X11/xorg.conf will still be used if it is present, otherwise configuration (.conf) files within /etc/X11/xorg.d/ will be used, and autodetection will be used in the absense of either.

I note that this opensuse-11-3-milestone-6 release article mentions

Added xorg.conf.d snippets so you can easily override defaults if your monitor has not been detected via DDC.

gatoatigrado1 · June 9, 2010, 8:21am

While dynamic configuration can be very useful (particularly on a laptop), the problem with those tools is that they don’t have great fallbacks when the X11 configuration is messed up to the point X11 (and hence the GUI adjustment tools) can’t start.

I very much liked being able to rescue my system with sax2-vesa (similar situation – when a kernel update invalidated the nvidia driver build).

A console tool would be great, even if it is off the shelf. Please at least provide a redirection message (e.g. “use Xorg -configure” for those who don’t know) when the user types “sax2” in the console (these are usually programmable in bash and zsh).

knurpht · June 9, 2010, 9:38pm

If you’re desparate for sax2, it’s in the repos, you can find it through:
Software.openSUSE.org , search for ‘sax2’ for openSUSE Factory. Comes without warranty

dwightpaige79 · June 10, 2010, 12:58am

Thanks. That would be great. Unfortunately that only links me to 404 not found. I’ve been looking and haven’t found sax2 or sax2-gui for Factory. I can find them for 11.2.

Edit: sax2-tools is installed in 11.3 by default but obviously that doesn’t provide a sax2 that works…

Sagemta · June 10, 2010, 2:13am

When I tried that sax gave me something about missing dependencies & would I like to download them. I clicked yes & got nothing. Sax continued not to work no matter what I did.
After all that my initial workaround became:

to reload 11.2 get the xorg.conf from that then
C&P it to a flash drive
3.load in 11.3 M7
4.Once M7 was in C&P my old xorg.conf into /etc/X11
5.reboot
Yes I know it’s sloppy & really not the way to do things, but posted this for those who want to try this as a last resort!
One last thing is if you presently are using 11.2 backup & store your present xorg.conf on some outside medium. Should you install 11.3 you’ll need it until some other way to config xorg gets written.

deano_ferrari · June 10, 2010, 2:18am

After all that my initial workaround became:

to reload 11.2 get the xorg.conf from that then

Thats good advice sagmenta, and many experienced users make sure to keep hardware-specific config files for just that reason. Saves re-inventing the wheel!

dwightpaige79 · June 10, 2010, 2:34am

Yeah, I’m in the process of doing that right now…

dwightpaige79 · June 10, 2010, 2:41am

Many thanks. I’m reading/bookmarking these links and learning some different approaches to something I used to be able to do on ‘auto-pilot’ in days before dynamic configuration. FWIW I don’t recall when the last time I used sax2 in stable version of openSuSE. It is specific to my hardware in developer version where I sometimes need manual intervention.

Another potential tool for those in these shoes may be xrandr. I’m gonna have to learn on that some too.

oldcpu · June 11, 2010, 2:46pm

I wrote a bug report on sax2 being removed, … however it turns out this had been discussed a LOT on the mailing lists, and Novell/SuSE-GmbH noted they could no longer support sax2 … For example this thread: [opensuse-factory] The Future of SaX2](http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-12/msg00017.html)

… as a work around to sax2 being removed, but Xorg still not as “automatic” as many of us would like (in identifying hardware) I proposed in that bug report that someone who knows enough about this (ie NOT me) write a wiki as an interim providing sufficient guidance on how to do this. The bug report is here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=608237

Unfortunately, the action in the bug report I wrote, was ASSIGNED back on me (a volunteer) to write the wiki , and so at the moment I am kind of stuck, as I typically have to reverse engineer what has been done , as opposed to be proactive in writing a guide/wiki.

There is a rather long winded and somewhat limited pratical theory guide here, designed to help all openSUSE users , independant of their openSUSE version: REVIEWED - openSUSE Graphic Card Practical Theory Guide for Users - openSUSE Forums

Comments/help are welcome. Comments/improvements should go here: UN-reviewed: openSUSE Graphic Card Practical Theory Guide for Users - openSUSE Forums

I don’t know just yet what I am going to do about the assigned action to write a wiki, as I feel my knowledge is lacking. :\

I am especially weak on UDEV (ie if Xorg fails to automatically detect/configure one’s graphics, should one 1st try to edit things in UDEV ??? ). If one decides instead to come up with an edit to a config file for the graphics directly, should one instead go to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/directory and edit the files there? Or should one instead run “Xorg -configure” which creates the xorg.conf.new in /root and then copy that file to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.

deano_ferrari · June 11, 2010, 3:15pm

I am especially weak on UDEV (ie if Xorg fails to automatically detect/configure one’s graphics, should one 1st try to edit things in UDEV ??? ). If one decides instead to come up with an edit to a config file for the graphics directly, should one instead go to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/directory and edit the files there? Or should one instead run “Xorg -configure” which creates the xorg.conf.new in /root and then copy that file to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.

I think we’ll see a variety of solutions using all 3 methods over time.

BTW, I had a brief look at the graphic card parctical theory guide - its very informative and useful in assisting with the approach required to acheiving successful manual configuration. Good effort oldcpu, as I know it isn’t an easy task.

I don’t know just yet what I am going to do about the assigned action to write a wiki, as I feel my knowledge is lacking.

I’d leave it for a while, and see what knowledge base is developed across the distro’s, especially with respect to the new .conf files (although they are really fragmented xorg.conf sections), and the graphics-related udev rules.

oldcpu · June 11, 2010, 4:24pm

Stefan Dirsch replied gave me some guidance here: Access Denied so I have my work cut out for me to read this and bring myself “up to speed” on this subject, so as to write a decent guide. … here is the information from the bug report that he passed to me:

Stefan Dirsch 2010-06-11 12:12:19 UTC
Here are some pointers.

X/Config - Ubuntu Wiki

Input device configuration - FedoraProject

Who-T: New configuration world order

xorg-server 1.8/udev

/sbin/udevd -V

udevadm test /class/input/eventX

udevadm info -e | grep ID_INPUT (KEYBOARD, MOUSE, KEY, TOUCHPAD, …)

Does re-plugging the input devices makes them appear?
If they can’t be removed/connected, try:
udevadm trigger -v --subsystem-match=input
… I confess I’ve never taken the time to look into UDEV, nor really into xorg.conf contents (not since 1998 or so, and I think it was xfree86.conf back then) … and I’m going to take the advise, and read and study, but not rush to write anything.

I’m thinking now, thou, what might be necessary for openSUSE-11.3 users who can not get their graphics automatically configured by Xorg.conf is to (in order):

establish initially a basic configuration with fbdev or vesa (or other) driver so as to have as a minimum a low resolution xorg environment so as to have some basic GUI tools to improve things; that may mean copying /etc/X11/xorg.conf.install to /etc/X11.xorg
if knoweldgeable in UDEV (ok, that removes 99.99% of us ) fix the UDEV rules,
if UDEV method not known (that means 99.99% of us), and if one has the knowledge to edit xorg.conf file contents (that means 1% of us), then use that knowledge to edit the custom files under /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ where there are as of openSUSE-11.3 many files that can be editted. But that means 99% of us don’t know how to do that.
if UDEV and /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ edits fail, then try: Xorg -configure #and copy /root/xorg.conf.new to /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and try that file (or try an edit to that file);
and of course, don’t forget to try a proprietary graphic driver where one is available. ATI and nVidia, for example, recommend users try the “vesa” driver, and if that fails, to use their proprietary graphic driver.

I think we will need also to recommend all previous Linux users who are thinking of trying openSUSE-11.3, need to copy the xorg.conf file (if they have one) from their current Linux to a USB stick, and have that ready for openSUSE-11.3 in case needed.

deano_ferrari · June 12, 2010, 2:53am

I wouldn’t get too concerned about udev, with respect to graphics driver configuration. (That will concern input devices however). I think options 1 and 4 should be the primary means to getting a basic desktop environment operational with the vesa or fbdev drivers. The xorg.conf.install is a good fallback, as is using xorg -configure to generate a basic working config file.

The use of .conf files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ makes sense to me, and where needed, it should not be to difficult to create or edit the appropriate files, or even use working sections from legacy xorg.conf files. From the discussions and examples I’ve read about, they seem to mainly concern input device configuration, with very little mentioned about graphics configuration so far.

I’m reasonably familiar with udev rules as far as most hardware detection goes, but obviously I haven’t seen how this relates to X-server configuration yet. From my experience, it is easier to edit udev rules than messing with HAL fdi xml files. Again, I’m not sure that udev rules will be applicable to graphics cards, but instead used to provide support for input device configuration. I note that in the Fedora wiki, it is advised

Generally, users should not need to configure udev or add udev rules to enable device detection in X. While supported, users are discouraged from putting X.org-specific configuration content into udev rules files.

This XorgHAL page also mentions

Instead of udev rules, users and distributions are encouraged to use the xorg.conf.d for configuration. Old-style xorg.conf configuration is still available.

So where required (and practical to do so), it is being encouraged to use the .conf files (within /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/) for any additional configuration.

An example of udev configuration (and hal migration) for input devices is described well here:

https://wiki.kubuntu.org/X/InputConfiguration

I think we will need also to recommend all previous Linux users who are thinking of trying openSUSE-11.3, need to copy the xorg.conf file (if they have one) from their current Linux to a USB stick, and have that ready for openSUSE-11.3 in case needed.

Good advice.

oldcpu · June 12, 2010, 11:19am

For 11.3 I am thinking/proposing the guidance to give for users when Xorg fails to automatically configure X, and one can not reach X is the following order of tries:

Try from grub with boot code: nomodeset=1
Try from grub: failsafe
Try from run level-3 /etc/X11: cp xorg.conf.install xorg.conf [ie for fbdev boot if xorg.conf.install exists]
Try from run level-3: Xorg -configure ; cp /root/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf (and edit as required (example change “radeon” to “vesa” driver … ))
Try proprietary ATI or nVidia graphic driver (point to other wiki)
Using info from step-3 or step-4 above, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf (or other file in that directory)
Try Udev edits as last resort (due to complexity)

… and of course anywhere during those steps, contact IRC chat #suse or openSUSE forums for help.

The above is just an outline. Wiki would need hand holding details.

deano_ferrari · June 13, 2010, 1:04am

Yes, that approach makes sense as a first line of obtaining a working graphics card configuration. I’m sure that this will be further refined and adjusted as problems (and solutions) manifest over time.

hank_se · June 13, 2010, 11:26am

I haven’t had any luck with creating an xorg.conf in /etc/X11, the new trick to get into vesa mode is to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf like this:

Section “Device”
Identifier “Default Device”
Driver “vesa”
#Driver “radeon”

Required magic for radeon/radeonhd drivers; output name

(here: “DVI-0”) can be figured out via ‘xrandr -q’

#Option “monitor-DVI-0” “Default Monitor”

EndSection

Not too hard to get used to, I suppose the rest of the files in that folder can be edited the same way. Maybe it’s a good idea to structure it up this way?

oldcpu · June 13, 2010, 12:05pm

hank_se:

I haven’t had any luck with creating an xorg.conf in /etc/X11, the new trick to get into vesa mode is to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf like this:
Section "Device"
Identifier "Default Device"
Driver "vesa"
#Driver "radeon"

## Required magic for radeon/radeonhd drivers; output name
## (here: "DVI-0") can be figured out via 'xrandr -q'
#Option "monitor-DVI-0" "Default Monitor"

EndSection 
Not too hard to get used to, I suppose the rest of the files in that folder can be edited the same way. Maybe it’s a good idea to structure it up this way?

If that is a working example, it might be useful to include somewhere in a guide.

hank_se · June 13, 2010, 12:48pm

Yes that is a working example, if I try with /etc/X11/xorg.conf like this:

Section “Monitor”
Identifier “External”

Option “RightOf” “Panel”

EndSection

#Section “Monitor”

Identifier “Panel”

#EndSection

Section “Device”
Identifier “vesa”
Driver “vesa”
Option “monitor-VGA_1” “External”

Option “monitor-PANEL” “Panel”

Option “RROutputOrder” “PANEL”

EndSection

Section “Screen”
Identifier “MyScreen”
Device “vesa”
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection “Display”
Depth 24
## This is superfluous and actually harmful with a
## static configuration. Enable for dynamic config only.
#Virtual 2704 1050
EndSubSection
EndSection

X will still use the nvidia driver, only if I remove /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf will X use vesa mode. Example xorg.conf is taken from here:
X.Org Wiki - radeonhd

consused · June 13, 2010, 1:48pm

I agree with hank_se, in so far as encouraging the use of xorg.conf.d in preference to xorg.conf. Although we don’t know much about his failure with xorg.conf or on what release (11.3 I assume?). We don’t know who/what generated the previous commented-out device entry.

The xorg.conf has become increasingly easier to configure over time with many options defaulting, and some whole sections e.g. modesetting rarely being needed. Culminating in the fact that xorg.conf.d files will only require relatively simple additions by users, if any.

Splitting the old xorg.conf into manageable pieces in xorg.conf.d was done for the benefit of application/driver/hardware developers/programmers.

Since openSUSE 10.1, I have always required a manually edited xorg.conf to provide a working “via” or “openchrome” driver. Driver option statements have only been required to overcome unsophisticated driver development or driver bugs. Those workarounds have tended to apply to all distros depending on driver release in use, but have traditionally come from other distros. At least I have always managed to find the support somewhere.

With xorg’s latest auto configuration, I haven’t needed to configure anything. Just needed to manually install one of the preferred (of 3 possibles) drivers for openSUSE 11.3 since it isn’t on the liveCD. If I want to try all of them without uninstalling, I will use xorg.conf.d as the simplest way to overide xorg’s pecking order.

consused · June 13, 2010, 3:00pm

oldcpu:

For 11.3 I am thinking/proposing the guidance to give for users when Xorg fails to automatically configure X, and one can not reach X is the following order of tries:

Try from grub with boot code: nomodeset=1

Try from grub: failsafe

Try from run level-3 /etc/X11: cp xorg.conf.install xorg.conf [ie for fbdev boot if xorg.conf.install exists]

Try from run level-3: Xorg -configure ; cp /root/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf (and edit as required (example change “radeon” to “vesa” driver … ))

Try proprietary ATI or nVidia graphic driver (point to other wiki)

Using info from step-3 or step-4 above, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf (or other file in that directory)

Try Udev edits as last resort (due to complexity)

… and of course anywhere during those steps, contact IRC chat #suse or openSUSE forums for help.

The above is just an outline. Wiki would need hand holding details.

The outline looks ok, except that I would prefer to see the editing of driver device configuration statement in xorg.conf.d, attempted at step #3. No reason why a distro liveCD cannot be used at this point to edit the config files. It could save a user spending unproductive time on xorg.conf familiarization (becoming redundant).

Step #7 only applies to udev devices (hotplug) now including input devices, but not graphic cards. I haven’t read anything that details udev support for graphic cards (not during timescale for xorg-xserver 1.8.0 at least).