Why all the hate towards openSUSE?

English Open Chat
1

As I’m not particularly attached to any particular distro, I like to keep up-to-date with all the cool updates that happen in most of the popular distros. I’ll be the first to admit, I love openSUSE. I’ll test a new openSUSE version the moment it hits milestone 1. However, I’ll never understand the backlash that SUSE (I’m tired of writing openSUSE) receives.

Now, understandably, a site like OMG! Ubuntu! is probably a little biased, however, I noticed they mentioned the release of 11.3. I was looking through the comments and there was so much hate towards SUSE. Why?

Admittedly, I started using Linux back in 2007 on Ubuntu. However, I was always attracted to the level of professionalism that SUSE provides. I’ve been tinkering with SUSE since 10.3, but never really settled down until 11.2. I’m assuming that the openSUSE community has a much older and wiser demographic of users judging by the help forums. (Albeit slower moving, the forums and its users seem more knowledgeable). But what’s with all the trash-talk?

OpenSUSE’s implementation of KDE is outstanding. I’ve never used a KDE-based distro as stable and polished as openSUSE. I’ve grown to like zypper and find it slower, but much more useful. And the repos aren’t really that slow (contrary to what some say). So, what is it? Is it because we don’t have a music store? or online storage? or attempt to look as OS X inspired as possible? Please help me to understand…

EDIT: Here’s the link that inspired me to write this post: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/opensuse-113-released.html

2

I am no expert of why anybody might express hate for something else. However, when you select a distro to use and spend a lot of effort to use it, you want to feel you have selected the best. Further, if there is evidence that another product you do not use may be better, this may make the issue even worse. People are people and perhaps those supporters for two top contenders for the best Linux distribution might have several users that attack each other in the hope of getting more followers in their camp. I suggest you ignore it all and use your favorite distribution because it works best for you and not due to the good press it is getting. (thought good press can’t hurt… rotfl!)

Thank You,

3

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:56:01 +0000, isaacj87 wrote:

> I was looking
> through the comments and there was -so- much hate towards SUSE. Why?

Simple, people are biased towards what they’re used to. You’ll find
there are people who are as equally vitriolic about Ubuntu (and honestly,
I don’t understand either side of that one) or about Windows for that
matter.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator

4

I checked out the web site you indicated and did not see anything I would describe as ‘Hatred’, merely comments saying Ubuntu is better because … I thought a lot of the comments were quite balanced.

5

Sorry, where I’m from, the word hate is often (mis)used to describe an unfair, misguided, or uninformed judgement towards something. It’s comments like this that annoy me: “Suse is terrible, it doesn’t even support ppa, how are we gonna keep track of software updates?”

These people see a post about openSUSE and flocked to it automatically giving it a thumbs down when they haven’t even tried it. I mean, 11.3 just got released today!

6

OK. I guess maybe I should revise my question: Why does a new version of Ubuntu hit the front pages of tech news, but openSUSE does not? Generally speaking, it seems people can’t wait to get their hands on a new version of Ubuntu. OpenSUSE 11.3 has a new kernel, latest versions of KDE and GNOME, SpiderOak online storage and backed by OBS, but even with features comparable to Ubuntu, it’s always pushed to the back.

7

Honestly I do not understand why so much excitement because of ubuntu. Distros like openSUSE, Fedora, CentOS, in my opinion, are far more interesting in many ways, than ubuntu.

8

Some were, some were not. The comment on ppa’s for example (I had to go read up on that), is like the openSUSE BuildService. The main difference is that, as I understand it, our BuildService is centrally located and handles builds for quite a variety of systems, openSUSE, SLE, Fedora, Mandriva, Debian, Ubuntu, and CentOS. As one commenter put it, our BuildService is ppa on steroids.

Some comments were just, what is openSUSE doing here, and comments about not liking openSUSE with out justification.

9

@isaacj87: I don’t know why you care so much what a couple people say. There were 36 responses in that thread, and only a couple of people that said anything truly negative about opensuse.

Why all the hate? What hate? I can find derogatory statements about anything if I want to look for it. I can find many threads filled with anti-Dallas Cowboy sentiments, along with anything else in life. Who cares what a couple people say? Don’t make it sound like 1000’s of people posted anti open SUSE things. A couple of posts is not a reason to say “why all the hate?”. Relax and don’t be so sensitive. I go to TONS of different forums, and rarely hear anything bad about opensuse. Just because a couple people out of all the many millions of linux users said they didn’t like it, means nothing. There are negative things being said about anything and everything.

10

On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:56 +0000, isaacj87 wrote:
> As I’m not particularly attached to any particular distro, I like to
> keep up-to-date with all the cool updates that happen in most of the
> popular distros. I’ll be the first to admit, I love openSUSE. I’ll test
> a new openSUSE version the moment it hits milestone 1. However, I’ll
> never understand the backlash that SUSE (I’m tired of writing openSUSE)
> receives.
>
> Now, understandably, a site like OMG! Ubuntu! is probably a little
> biased, however, I noticed they mentioned the release of 11.3. I was
> looking through the comments and there was -so- much hate towards SUSE.
> Why?

Well, like anything… mostly the “bad” finds its way into posts (I
know… not always… but often).

I think that when Novell made their deal with Microsoft… a deal that
was designed to provide some protection for (just) Novell customers,
that somehow, when openSUSE came about, that people naturally made a tie
between Novell and openSUSE, so in their frustration, not for technical
reasons, but because of “hatred” (if I can use the word) of Microsoft,
Novell was evil… and thus openSUSE as well.

Also, it was GKH that made a presentation showing how Ubunutu DID NOT
contribute ANYTHING back to the kernel… and so Ubuntu’s claims of
massive contributions to Linux was actually… .well ZERO (practically).
That one hurt… and was simply to make sure that the Ubuntu developers
REALLY tried to participate… but it was embarrassing and was done
simply because the Ubuntu people kept harping on their contributions.
Reality hurts.

So… there’s a couple of reason.

>
> Admittedly, I started using Linux back in 2007 on Ubuntu. However, I
> was always attracted to the level of professionalism that SUSE provides.
> I’ve been tinkering with SUSE since 10.3, but never really settled down
> until 11.2. I’m assuming that the openSUSE community has a much older
> and wiser demographic of users judging by the help forums. (Albeit
> slower moving, the forums and its users seem more knowledgeable). But
> what’s with all the trash-talk?

I too like openSUSE’s more thoughtful approach and desire to support the
more technical end user (not just grandma and grandpa).

>
> OpenSUSE’s implementation of KDE is -outstanding-. I’ve never used a
> KDE-based distro as stable and polished as openSUSE. I’ve grown to like
> zypper and find it slower, but much more useful. And the repos aren’t
> really that slow (contrary to what some say). So, what is it? Is it
> because we don’t have a music store? or online storage? or attempt to
> look as OS X inspired as possible? Please help me to understand…
>
> EDIT: Here’s the link that inspired me to write this post:
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/opensuse-113-released.html
>
>

Well… as with anything community oriented, the speed of servers depends
a lot upon the community itself. That’s not an excuse though… just
saying.

With regards to anti-Ubuntu… that is, something I have a problem
with… it’s DEFINITELY not the community. They have a strong
community, just like openSUSE. But there’s just something about funding
a distro using money made through the monopolization of certificate
authorities (e.g. push a button make billions… seriously folks…).

11

isaacj87 wrote:
>OK. I guess maybe I should revise my question: Why does a new version of
> Ubuntu hit the front pages of tech news, but openSUSE does not?

that question (and the original) should be directed to the folks
spreading the “hate” or “front pages of tech news” writers who hype
one distro, and not another (or all)…

asking here is not gonna be productive if your purpose is to find
supportable answers to your questions…

on the other hand, it will be productive if your purpose is to promote
discussion among folks who can only provide personal opinions…unless
of course some of the “hate” senders or unbalanced hype writers come
here to participate and defend their actions…

–
Enjoy Packman’s benefits? Show your appreciation by donating at
http://se.unixheads.org/?donate

DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]

12

It still isn’t hatred though is it, misguided, misinformed even ignorant… but, not hate.

13

Way back in the 90s SUSE used to be someting like “the Microsoft of Linux”, very beginner friendly but also quite sluggish and bloatet (came on 5 CDs and installed EVERYTHING), and on top they were charging almost $100 while you could get something like Redhat or Slackware for free (if you were able to figure out the installer, and compile missing apps and kernel modules).

On top of this old prejudice, today’s openSUSE is of course associated with Novell, who are blamed to be controlled by Microsoft because of their Mono / Moonlight project and having a license agreement with MS.

However, with Canonical doing such a bad job around KDE and general Ubuntu popularity decreasing rapidly, I think openSUSE is fit for a huge comeback - on my harddrive at least … I’ve yet to see a more professional implementation of Linux, than the excellent openSUSE 11.3 release, and in the long run I think this superior quality will convince all the SUSE sceptics out there.

14

You know that OMG! Ubuntu has now launched a sister-site OMG! SUSE!](http://omgsuse.com), right?

Not long ago, I would think the Novell-Microsoft deal still overshadowed openSUSE but I think time, temperment and reality is settling in and people are realizing it isn’t the end of Linux as we know it, and is what it is… a business deal. Also the other controversial Novell project, Mono, has gone from a virtual book-burning bonfire to hibatchi coals.

Unfortunately people just keep regurgitating what they heard during the highly-passionate arguments and fail to do any research themselves. They use what was to help foster putting somebody else down so as to prop themselves up! Unfortunately they don’t realize that it doesn’t raise them anywhere, just gives them the perception they are getting anywhere.

15

Perhaps. But it only takes a couple bad apples to contribute to tarnishing of openSUSE’s image. Think about it. OMG! Ubuntu! is a fairly popular site. I’m a brand new Linux user (since Linux is seeing a rise in popularity) and was suggested to try Ubuntu first (as it is the most popular). I decide to do some research on Ubuntu and I come across OMG! Ubuntu! and see a post about openSUSE. I do a quick scan of the comments and all I really take away from there is that people wouldn’t recommend openSUSE over Ubuntu. (Because people never remember the good). And in turn, I perpetuate the FUD and then I’m the new generation of the misinformed. The cycle goes on.

To be fair, maybe I should be a little less sensitive and look past the occasional BS. But, it’s a **** shame that you have these uninformed loud-mouths that talk down openSUSE. On a popular site. On its release day.

16

isaacj87 wrote:
> Perhaps. But it only takes a couple bad apples to contribute to
> tarnishing of openSUSE’s image. Think about it. OMG! Ubuntu! is a fairly
> popular site. I’m a brand new Linux user (since Linux is seeing a rise
> in popularity) and was suggested to try Ubuntu first (as it is the most
> popular). I decide to do some research on Ubuntu and I come across OMG!
> Ubuntu! and see a post about openSUSE. I do a quick scan of the comments
> and all I really take away from there is that people wouldn’t recommend
> openSUSE over Ubuntu. (Because people never remember the good). And in
> turn, I perpetuate the FUD and then I’m the new generation of the
> misinformed. The cycle goes on.

and what would you want us to do about it? go over to OMG! Ubuntu! and
start a flame war?

no? then what?

> To be fair, maybe I should be a little less sensitive and look past the
> occasional BS. But, it’s a **** shame that you have these uninformed
> loud-mouths that talk down openSUSE. On a popular site. On its release
> day.

hey, there are idiots everywhere…some even spend their days talking
bad about *buntu, Mac, etc etc etc…

relax…not everyone on earth has to approve of and like your choice…

anyway, Linux is not for everyone…

–
Enjoy Packman’s benefits? Show your appreciation by donating at
http://se.unixheads.org/?donate

DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]

17

Ha. Everyone is suggesting I relax as if I’m up at arms about this, I’m not. I don’t see the point in aruging with idiots on an Ubuntu-focused site (as you can see I didn’t post anything in the comments defending openSUSE). And I’m not trying to gather troops here to fight a flame-war with me. Truthfully, I started this topic to get an opinion on what you guys felt about this. Not what we would do about this (or what I shouldn’t do). As an openSUSE user, I wanted to know how other openSUSE users felt about a situation like this. I didn’t come here for a lesson in humility. When did I say I ever wanted to do something about it? Unfortunately, I’m now understanding that I did not get my sentiments across correctly. But, what I’m gathering from this, is that you guys don’t really care. And I don’t mean that in a negative way. What I mean to say is you guys use what you want to use and I respect that.

But, here’s an interesting thought, if you were to reverse the situation, and I ask the same question on UbuntuForums, what would happen there?

18

Well the Linux distro communities and the larger FOSS meta-community have some interesting dynamics. Different people are involved for different reasons. And sometimes people like to have their preferences validated so they prop up their distro and attempt to smack down the alternatives. Informed critique is one thing but Dragonbite got it exactly right:

This is true with the “openSUSE=Novell, Novell=Microsoft, therefore openSUSE=Microsoft” argument, it is also true with the "Ubuntu sponges off the FOSS community - See they don’t contribute to the kernel! argument. Round and round, sometimes I wonder if we need some sort of neutral, dedicated , fact-checking site for common claims.

So long as in the end more effort is spent on translating, testing, drawing, positively promoting, helping/supporting, writing documentation and coding than having forum food fights then on the whole the community is getting stronger.

19

I still don’t understand why this topic even deserved its own thread. (but you are obviously free to do so) I have seen MANY threads and posts, (possibly 1000’s) putting down ubuntu as if it were the worst thing the world has ever seen. So really, compared to what a few people said on that site is a drop in the bucket compared to the “hate” posts I’ve seen towards ubuntu. That’s OK, but I’m not going to start a thread about it. A couple of posts on some website is hardly reason for concern.

I see ignorant posts on forums all the time regardless of topic. That’s life, that’s the net, get over it.

20

Oh, and calling misinformed people idiots doesn’t make you look any better.