On 2010-12-17 02:06, please try again wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2266916 Wrote:
>>
>> My trick is that I label my changes with my initials, so I know what I
>> have to redo and why.
>
> But what if you change your initials as well? lol!
The diff would catch it :-p
I would not know if I changed it or was external, but I would see the
change 
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
On 2010-12-17 01:36, dt30 wrote:
> If I have alternating installs, would I need a multi-boot option?
Yes.
And there are many ways to do it.
For example:
1st) install a small linux system (5…8 GB), in a primary partition. It
will be used as rescue partition. Grub goes to MBR or partition. It boots
other grubs:
root (hd0,2)
configfile /boot/grub/menu.lst
or
rootnoverify (hd0,2)
makeactive
chainloader +1
(if the other system is in a primary)
2nd) Install a 2nd linux, the 1st main one. Grub is set to root partition.
3rd) Install a 3rd linux, the 2nd main one. Grub is set to root partition.
The first grub is used to boot by default the rescue partition, the first
main, or the second main. It can also be used to boot by default (and
permanently) the 1st main or the 2nd main, if they live in primaries (at
least their /boot partitions) by making those partitions active.
Conversely, grub in the main systems need a makeactive entry to revert the
change and mark the first primary instead.
Note: if you plan on hibernation, don’t use swap, or use a different swap,
for the rescue partition, which should not hibernate.
> Can the images of two alternating installs be put in the same boot
> directory/partition? Would that be wise?
No.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
On 2010-12-17 01:36, dt30 wrote:
> Yes, alternate installs sounds good to me. Maybe if I didn’t use some
> things like mysql, upgrades would be better, but with the my.sock not
> being upgraded properly, I’m concerned with other things not going well.
I have done many upgrades and that is not a problem. Perhaps there was a
change of location sometime and it caused a problem for you.
> I’m also concerned about clutter accumulating in the system directories
> and my home directories. I don’t even know if I need the .kde folder
> anymore and who knows what others.
Those directories are in home, and they remain “a problem” regardless of
choosing new install or upgrades.
You can simply create a new user, and compare what directories it has.
>
> How would you recommend partitions for alternating? If I have use than
> four, I saw something about needing a boot or swap as a physical
> partition rather than logical.
Swap is shared. Home is also usually shared, being carefull to use
different users during the transition. I don’t use alternating installs, so
I can’t comment much on the specifics.
If you hibernate, be careful, you have to boot into the correct alternate.
> I only needed to use kwrite to look in a file that wouldn’t let me
> otherwise. Log files, and such.
I don’t use GUI tools as root if I can avoid it. For looking at logs I
prefer “less”. Or Midnight Commander.
>> You can move aside (rename) the .kde* directories and recreate the
>> settings. Tools should start to work again. Mail would have to be moved
>> over.
>>
> Just making sure I understand correctly, move or rename them and the
> new programs will automatically create them? All programs will? I’m
> thinking of .kde4/share/apps/*
Yes, kde programs have to regenerate their .kde* section. And yes, of
course, if you move the directory, programs start with default settings.
But it is sometimes the only known method to repair apps working weird.
>> A notebook >;-)
>>
> Notebook! Ha, ha. I’ll never find my notebook again, or forget to
> write in it.
It happens
> But I do like the rpm options! I had seen something like that before
> about formatting the output and this is a capability different than what
> I’ve seen in DOS. Never thought about getting the install time and
> sorting it. That should work for me adequately, giving me at least some
> idea of what I have and comparing install times.
There is a quick option to rpm, I think “–last” that does that sorting.
But my way I print the fields that I need for checking. I can see if I have
apps from the wrong repo or the wrong arch - or apps that were not upgraded
and belong to a different version.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
Some great ideas. For some reason, I thought I had to create a separate home directory for each system. I guess it helps to get other’s input. And creating a test user until the the new version is set up, correctly was something I hadn’t thought of.
I had trouble finding about the “chainloader” option on grub. Guess I’m not to that point yet. After thinking through it for awhile, here’s what I thought might work for me. Let me know if there’s any reason it might not be a good idea:
partition
1: rescue-grub 5 GB - minimal Linux system
2: boot-a 70 MB
3: boot-b 70 MB
5: swap 8GB
6: root-a 25GB
7: root-b 25GB
8: home
Can swap be in a secondary partition? I don’t think I have hibernation. I think I have sessions. When I turn the computer off and back on, it comes up with my windows where I last left them.
If this would work, and given my current system with /usr and /var and others separated out, how do I make my current system, I guess, like boot-a & root-a? Before, when I enlarged the separate boot partition, seem like I ran some program to do that which escapes my mind. Yast’s Partitioner doesn’t look like it has an option for moving, only resizing.
In the past, after deleting a partition for Win98, I decided to mount by label instead of id since the numbering changed. Is that a good idea and any suggestions how to keep track of “a” or “b” being the “current” system so I don’t accidentally delete or reformat the one I shouldn’t? A notebook log could help, and I would probably double-check it if doing something smart, but think I would check that before doing something stupid? Would re-labeling them such as 11.3 before installing the new version work good? Would that mean changing things in the first grub setup each time?
On 2011-01-12 19:06, dt30 wrote:
> partition
> 1: rescue-grub 5 GB - minimal Linux system
Good
> 2: boot-a 70 MB
> 3: boot-b 70 MB
Let it be 250 MB. Today is much more than needed, in 10 years it might not
be enough.
> 5: swap 8GB
> 6: root-a 25GB
> 7: root-b 25GB
> 8: home
Looks good to me.
> Can swap be in a secondary partition?
Of course.
> I don’t think I have
> hibernation. I think I have sessions. When I turn the computer off and
> back on, it comes up with my windows where I last left them.
With hibernation you get back all programs in the same state, even with
opened, not saved, files.
> If this would work, and given my current system with /usr and /var and
> others separated out, how do I make my current system, I guess, like
> boot-a & root-a? Before, when I enlarged the separate boot partition,
> seem like I ran some program to do that which escapes my mind. Yast’s
> Partitioner doesn’t look like it has an option for moving, only
> resizing.
I’m lost here. My memory is not that good.
> In the past, after deleting a partition for Win98, I decided to mount
> by label instead of id since the numbering changed. Is that a good idea
Yes, of course.
> and any suggestions how to keep track of “a” or “b” being the “current”
> system so I don’t accidentally delete or reformat the one I shouldn’t?
Label them root-a and root-b. You can set the default system to boot if you
use a generic MBR and change the active partition (I do that).
> A notebook log could help, and I would probably double-check it if doing
> something smart, but think I would check that before doing something
> stupid? Would re-labeling them such as 11.3 before installing the new
> version work good? Would that mean changing things in the first grub
> setup each time?
Sorry, I’m lost again O:-)
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)
On 12/01/11 20:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2011-01-12 19:06, dt30 wrote:
>
>> partition
>> 1: rescue-grub 5 GB - minimal Linux system
>
> Good
>
>> 2: boot-a 70 MB
>> 3: boot-b 70 MB
>
> Let it be 250 MB. Today is much more than needed, in 10 years it might not
> be enough.
>
>
>> 5: swap 8GB
>> 6: root-a 25GB
>> 7: root-b 25GB
>> 8: home
>
> Looks good to me.
>
>
>> Can swap be in a secondary partition?
>
> Of course.
>
>> I don’t think I have
>> hibernation. I think I have sessions. When I turn the computer off and
>> back on, it comes up with my windows where I last left them.
>
> With hibernation you get back all programs in the same state, even with
> opened, not saved, files.
>
>
>> If this would work, and given my current system with /usr and /var and
>> others separated out, how do I make my current system, I guess, like
>> boot-a& root-a? Before, when I enlarged the separate boot partition,
>> seem like I ran some program to do that which escapes my mind. Yast’s
>> Partitioner doesn’t look like it has an option for moving, only
>> resizing.
>
> I’m lost here. My memory is not that good.
>
>
>> In the past, after deleting a partition for Win98, I decided to mount
>> by label instead of id since the numbering changed. Is that a good idea
>
> Yes, of course.
>
>> and any suggestions how to keep track of “a” or “b” being the “current”
>> system so I don’t accidentally delete or reformat the one I shouldn’t?
>
> Label them root-a and root-b. You can set the default system to boot if you
> use a generic MBR and change the active partition (I do that).
>
>> A notebook log could help, and I would probably double-check it if doing
>> something smart, but think I would check that before doing something
>> stupid? Would re-labeling them such as 11.3 before installing the new
>> version work good? Would that mean changing things in the first grub
>> setup each time?
>
> Sorry, I’m lost again O:-)
>
That’s, essentially, the system I have adopted and find works very well.
I don’t have a rescue system nor individual boot partitions, but rely on
a live CD if the “older” version fails to boot as well the new
I use 2 root and 2 home partitions and label them opensuse-11.x and
home-11.x, where “x” identifies the version, and mount the alternate
partitions as /mnt/alt-os and /mnt/alt-home. The home partitions are
small (restricted to 4GB at the moment, 40% used) and use a sym-link
from ~/Documents to /datastore/Documents (in a partition on a second
drive). That way I can copy parts of the version specific “~” when doing
an otherwise clean install, get the look and feel as I want and then
insert the sym-link when ready to go live; while the Documents are still
accessible via an alternative route.
–
PeeGee
MSI m/b 870-C45, AMD Athlon II X3 445, 4GB, openSUSE 11.3/11.2 x86_64
dual boot + XP Home in VBox
Asus m/b M2NPV-VM, AMD 64X2 3800+, 2GB, openSUSE 11.3 x86_64/XP Home
dual boot
Acer Aspire 1350, AMD (M)XP2400+, 768MB, openSUSE 11.2/XP Home dual boot
Asus eeePC 4G (701), Celeron M353, 2GB, openSUSE 11.3 on SSD
Maybe I missed what was meant, but I thought if I had a multi-boot situation I would need separate boot partitions. However, I can’t think of any reason nor benefits from having it separate from the root. Is this correct?
I like the idea of symbolic links to the documents directory though I didn’t follow what you meant. Could you explain it a little more. I grasp a vague concept but need a little more detail on the copying parts of the version specific “~” and of inserting the link when ready to go live. I didn’t follow the “datastore” but maybe that’s just how you set yours up on a separate drive and I might want mine to point to my main home.
Can anyone suggest what program should be used to rearrange my existing partitions? I think I moved them and enlarged one once, but the name escapes me now. And how do you merge separated /var and /usr into /root? Seeing that I’m trying to install a new version, is there a better way to proceed and once the new is working delete the old and set up for the next one?
I think it was gparted what I had used before. Is that a good thing to use? I came across Parted Magic or something, but it looks like it was a bundle of tools which included gparted.
On 14/01/11 16:06, dt30 wrote:
>
> Maybe I missed what was meant, but I thought if I had a multi-boot
> situation I would need separate boot partitions. However, I can’t think
> of any reason nor benefits from having it separate from the root. Is
> this correct?
>
I believe the separate boot partition is a throwback to the days when it
was not possible to boot from partitions occupying more than 1024
cylinders. Having a small patition at the start of the disk neatly
side-stepped the problem. I have not used them for a while.
> I like the idea of symbolic links to the documents directory though I
> didn’t follow what you meant. Could you explain it a little more. I
> grasp a vague concept but need a little more detail on the copying parts
> of the version specific “~” and of inserting the link when ready to go
> live. I didn’t follow the “datastore” but maybe that’s just how you set
> yours up on a separate drive and I might want mine to point to my main
> home.
>
Because I have a “slow” internet connection, I tend to perform an
installation from a “net CD” (sometimes a “live CD”) and leave out
Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice and anything I don’t need. During the
installation, I select the partition containing the Documents folder to
be mounted as /datastore (just a name I selected, showing the purpose of
the partition). When that’s finished and updated, I copy the .mozilla,
…thunderbird and .ooo3 folders from the old /home/<user> to the new, add
the openoffice, mozilla and packman repos to the list and install the
packages, selecting the elements I want (dictionaries etc).
After testing and setting up the look and feel as I want it, I then
rename the “new” Documents folder (in case there is anything in it which
is needed) and, in a terminal window, use
ln -s /datastore/Documents Documents
to create a symbolic link to the “actual” Documents storage.
>
> Can anyone suggest what program should be used to rearrange my existing
> partitions? I think I moved them and enlarged one once, but the name
> escapes me now. And how do you merge separated /var and /usr into
> /root? Seeing that I’m trying to install a new version, is there a
> better way to proceed and once the new is working delete the old and set
> up for the next one?
>
>
I used various apps (including gparted) from UBCD to re-arrange, format
and copy partitions (google UBCD for info).
Sorry for the delay in responding.
–
PeeGee
MSI m/b 870-C45, AMD Athlon II X3 445, 4GB, openSUSE 11.3/11.2 x86_64
dual boot + XP Home in VBox
Asus m/b M2NPV-VM, AMD 64X2 3800+, 2GB, openSUSE 11.3 x86_64/XP Home
dual boot
Acer Aspire 1350, AMD (M)XP2400+, 768MB, openSUSE 11.2/XP Home dual boot
Asus eeePC 4G (701), Celeron M353, 2GB, openSUSE 11.3 on SSD
Thanks. I think I have an idea of what you do with the links. I suppose you wouldn’t have to copy them from the old to the new and just let the new programs create the folders. Then copy them to the datastore folder. Just thinking about extra old things that may have been replaced.
When I ran gparted, it swapped my sda with sdb. I assume it doesn’t matter as long as I pay attention to which one I’m changing.
I had a thought on my separate /var and /usr partitions and how to get them together with the root. If I boot with the system unmounted, create a /var and /usr off the root partition, copy the /var and /usr partitions over, then hide(?) or otherwise don’t mount the separate partitions. Does that sound reasonable?
It has dawned on me that maybe why I’m not fully understanding your linking to Documents is because I failed to understand what Documents was for and/or didn’t set my folders up properly. I have very little in my Documents folder, basically a few miscellaneous “document” notes for setting up Linux. At the same level as Documents, I have many other folders such as Develop, Downloads, Pictures, etc. But maybe, I should put everything underneath Documents, so that my home folder level stays basically pure, which would be less difficult sorting through all the “.” dot folders (don’t want to hide anything) to get to my Develop, etc. Then, if I am now understanding what you are doing, I let the new system create the home folder with the new Documents folder, I test everything, merge over any “.” info files for my old settings, then link just the new Documents to the main Documents. That way, it automatically removes (by not creating them) any old “.” folders, any new “.” folders and settings are created, and I have only one folder / link to where my real data is. Which might be easier to select for backing up.
And if this is a fairly accurate understanding, is there any need to have a separate new home partitions just to provide a link? I’m thinking:
rescue-grub 10GB
root-a 40GB
root-b 40GB
swap 8GB
home
With my evolving understanding of partitions, I should be able to easily switch the boot partition between root-a and root-b and probably don’t need the rescue-grub but could think of it as root-c or experimental. It also gives me a cushion in case I need to enlarge the system partitions and won’t have to move my home partition.
Following the same concept with linking, I could have something like:
/datastore/Documents
/datastore/Mysql
which would solve my mysql question of protecting it’s data by having it in my /home partition. I probably would want to set security on the folder and then put a link from the root-a partition over to it.
I’m guessing you have the /datastore at the top level of the system. Is there a better place for it like /mnt/datastore? /home seems like that should be user folders and not others. I suppose a standalone home system it doesn’t really matter, but just thinking in general terms if there were many users using it. Of course then, datastore may consist of shared and not shared folders…
It still sounds good to me about combining my /var and /usr partitions by copying them to the root partition, and then no longer mounting them. I guess I need confirmation from someone that I’m not doing something crazy.
I haven’t read the whole thread, but yes you can do that. Basically, you can do that with any partition but you have to take care that the ownership and mode of the files and directories get preserved (it depends on how you copy thes files). An example is /var/tmp, which should have mode 1777 (read/write/execute for anyone and sticky directory).
Thanks. That would be something that may have caused me problems.
I combined the /var and /usr by copying each directory to the root partition and have removed and formatted the others and installed 11.3. Worked easier than the worrying I did over it. I think the idea of having links to a home folder is going to work nice and allow me room for testing before setting it up. I was creating a mysql directory in the home partition with the idea that I could point any installation version to it. That way, I could test on the new install and make sure it doesn’t delete a copy of the data, then when everything is good, I could point a link to my homemysql.
One thing that came up is that the user and group id #'s of MySql are different. I’m not sure how to handle that. If the #s are randomly assigned, I suppose I could create the user before installing the package. But otherwise, how do I allow both versions of the systems to be able to access the mysql folder while at the same time accessing any system folders it created, especially the mysql.sock area. I could chown the ones I know about, but what if I don’t find them all and what about some other system than mysql that I may want to do the same thing and not know all its files/folders?