USB 3.0 & openSUSE 11.2 (Kernel Version 2.6.31) Does it Work?

Please note:
eSATA USB 3.0 is backward compatible with USB 2.0. With a standard USB external cable speed is limited well below USB 3.0 standard but higher than USB 2.0 can reach, just as you found.

To Boot, the BIOS must support USB 3.0 standard. To USE, Windows can access with additional driver, Linux can access with the latest kernels even if the BIOS doesn’t recognise, this also is as you found.

With an USB 3.0 compatible cable/CARD/MBO pairing, and appropriate drivers for Windows/Linux you will get full speed +/- 2% of the stated and the ability to Boot from it and up to 10 feet cable distance.

I’m trying to wrap my occasionally thick head around this one. … ie … does this mean if I purchase a USB-3.0 PCI card and an external hard drive that supports USB-3.0 , that in order to take advantage of this, I need also to purchase a USB-3.0 cable (which is presumably different from a USB-2.0 cable) ?

It appears to me that I do need to also purchase a new cable (if it does not come with the hard drive) based on your post and also on various web articles such as this one I’m quoting.

You are correct in the assumption. The USB 3.0 cable provides two way communication, higher speed, longer 10 foot runs via improved shielding against crosstalk, higher power. The USB 3.0 controller (MBO or cardslot type) provides for greater power supplied to the USB connection, handshaking for the two way communication, and access to the higher speeds via the device drivers. Now on the USB 3.0 device side, the drive will function from a USB 3.0 cable at full rated specs but if connected via a standard USB 2.0 cable will be limited to that technology. A USB 3.0 drive is capable of much higher speeds than it’s USB 2.0 counterpart. So when you use a USB 2.0 HDD you never come close to the full rated speed of USB 2.0 simply because the drive just doesn’t have that potential. A USB 3.0 drive connected with a USB 2.0 cable to a standard USB 2.0 port achieves a much faster transfer rate because the drive can function faster and the cable can handle the faster drive action.

Linux, can access a USB 3.0 drive because it gets the standard polled responce back from the drive in USB 2.0 style using it’s device driver in the kernel. Windows can use the USB 3.0 drive because it’s supplied USB 3.0 driver (came with the drive) tells it how to access the drive in USB 2.0 mode when USB 3.0 port in the computer isn’t present.

The BIOS of a non-USB 3.0 system can’t boot from the drive because when it polls the drive it’s limited ROM routines can’t understand why the drive reports USB 3.0 and DTR of 4.7GB

Just adding a USB 3.0 card will allow faster transfer rates closing in on 480MB/s (without special driver software) but to get full access the Linux kernel will need full USB 3.0 driver support for 4.7GB and the drive is too new yet. This leads us to another Chicken and egg problem.

In Linux we have always lagged behind due to Proprietary device drivers and the industry not willing to share on a fair even scale. While Intel is spearheading the way into USB 3.0 with their own rendition of the specs, Abit, Gigabit, AMD, nVidea, and others are also planning to release their own versions of the specs in hopes of squeezing the others to conform to their’s. This is really Bad for an innovation (harddisks) which have always enjoyed a sharing so that people would be free to upgrade their systems. I guess they think that because a USB 3.0 Hdd is decidedly an external device the claim to proprietary rights apply.

Bottom line is who has enough of a clout to settle the dispute and force friendly co-operation…

Also, the USB3 cable I have came with the USB3 hard drive enclosure. So, I did not have to purchase a separate one. Check the included items for the USB3 drive you purchase.

Thank You,

In reply to my email query to LogiLink on the Linux compatibility of their LogiLink® | PCI Express Interface Card (PC0054) USB 3.0 2x LogiLink® , I received this today from LogiLink:

you can only use the PC0054 with Windows XP/VIsta/7 and Mac 10.3 or higher.
We can’t offer you a Card for Linux or Linux Distributions.
Now I suspect this LogiLink PC0054 card may indeed work with a recent Linux kernel, but clearly the manufacturer won’t admit to it. So scrap that card, and it looks like I’ll be ordering a BUFFALO USB 3.0 PCI Express card model IFC-PCI1E2U3 from the internet. I did a search on an Austrian search page for computer products and for that card obtained many hits. … After shipping, it won’t be cheap.

I found a datasheet for the Buffalo USB-3.0 IFC-PCIE2U3 and I note they also do not claim any sort of Linux compatibility.

Fortunately user jdmcdaniel3 has paved the way here, and knows that the the Buffalo USB-3.0 IFC-PCIE2U3 card works with openSUSE-11.2.

I need to compose a reply to LogiLink, thanking them for their reply. I have not yet decided if I should mention one of their competitors USB-3.0 cards has been proven by user test to work with Linux. Heck if they (Logilink) would send me a card (for free) I could even test it for them against the USB-3.0 drive I plan to purchase, … but I don’t plan to mention that as such testing may entail more time than I am willing to give to this.

I did a bit more research here, and I may have a problem with this card, … in fact, … maybe with all USB-3.0 cards. I noted this caution wrt the Buffalo USB-3.0 card:

Chipsatz: NEC • Achtung! Die volle Geschwindigkeit wird nicht erreicht auf Mainboards mit Intel H55/H57/P55/Q57/X58 Chipsets.
and pumping that into a computer translator gave:

Chip set: NEC • Note! The full speed not reached on Main boards with Intel H55/H57/P55/Q57/X58 chip set.
… where my motherboard has an X58 chipset and hence that does not read to be too promising.

Another popular mail order card is the ASUS U3S6, 2x USB 3.0/2x SATA 6Gb/s, PCIe 2.0 x4. but then I noticed this caveat:

Achtung! Nur mit folgenden Modellen kompatibel: Maximus III Formula, P7P55D Deluxe, P7P55D EVO, P7P55D PRO, P7P55D, P7P55D LE, P7P55 LX, P7P55 WS Supercomputer, P6T Deluxe, P6T Deluxe V2, P6TD Deluxe, P6T SE, Rampage II Extreme, Rampage II GENE, M4A79T Deluxe, M4A785TD-V EVO, M4A77TD PRO, M4A79T Deluxe/U3S6, M4A77TD PRO/U3S6, M4A785TD-V EVO/U3S6
where the board is red is my main board. … My German is not good enough for me to understand if that indicates it works best with those boards, or does NOT work with this boards. Edit - checking the English web site it appears it does work.

… but the above has cooled me down on this. I’m not going to jump into a purchase until I sort out the risk of incompatibility (for full speed) with my P6T Deluxe V2 motherboard.

This Asus card may indeed be the card I need to focus my compatibility searches on (as it is noted on the Asus website as being specifically compatible with my PC’s main board). ie I now need to confirm that it works with Linux ?

oldcpu, my motherboard is a ASUS M2A-VM using the AMD 690G chipset and provide AM2 AMD CPU support. The cost was around $50 and so I decided to give the PCIe card a try. I did find one post of someone else saying the BUFFALO card did not work with Linux, but I found that the chipset on the PC card did work with Linux, so I decided to give it a try. And it does work for me, but I did not consider any motherboard chipset issues.

Thank You,

[quote="“oldcpu,post:19,topic:46922”]

This Asus card may indeed be the card I need to focus my compatibility searches on (as it is noted on the Asus website as being specifically compatible with my PC’s main board). ie I now need to confirm that it works with Linux ?[/QUOTE]After a lot of surfing/googling I found reference to a Linux user who is using this Asus U3S6 PCI-e USB-3.0 card. In the quoted thread they are having a problem, albeit it may be specific to their raid configuration (or their motherboard - Asus claim only compatibility with some motherboards) and maybe also due to the massive file transfers they are doing (I have not figured that out yet).

But it does suggest to me now that the ASUS U3S6 PCI-e card does work with Linux (despite no mention on the Manufacturer’s site) …

So I do remember reading about this ASUS USB3 card. It was said to be the only True USB3 card, what ever that means. It looked larger than the one I purchased, but I could not determine before hand if it was better or not. It cost more, for me at least to purchase and at the time I found not much about Linux operation on it. I would say it looks very interesting and worth a try, if the cost is not too great for you. I guess you will pay with a euro, though I was never sure if that was good or bad over the Dollar. What will the ASUS card set you back with shipping?

Thank You,

PS I found that Newegg.com selling this board (ASUS U3S6) for $25.00 plus $6.00 shipping in Dollars into the US. This is lower than I remember a few months ago.

In general, computer hardware is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive in Europe than it is in the USA.

For example, here is a pricing comparison of various mail order places using an Austrian site to check European suppliers: ASUS U3S6, 2x USB 3.0/2x SATA 6Gb/s, PCIe 2.0 x4 Preisvergleich bei Geizhals.at EU

Its not possible to come even close to the US price you found, and I would estimate one needs to pay 50% to 100% more in Europe than that US price. In my case, if the card is available at a local shop, I will often pay extra to purchase from the local shop, just to give them some business. City PC is on the site I quoted, and the want € 32.30, plus Vorkasse € 5.95 which I do not think can be avoided (but I need to check). There should be no shipping as I would pick it up at the shop. But after adding the costs, that means a US price of close to $50.00 US by the time one converts to US dollars.

Well, for what it is worth, I always do best when I order online. If I am lucky, I do not have to pay local tax, when the product is shipped from out of state. There is always shipping, but I pick ground every time which adds no more than $4 or $5 bucks to the order. When I buy locally and it is not on sale, then it will cost more for me as well. I pay no shipping, but pay 10% more in tax, depending if it is in the city or the county.

In the city limits (like Austin) you pay state and city sales tax. But outside of the city, it is only state sales tax which is less. In Texas, we do not pay State income tax (we do pay federal tax), but to make up for the lack of state income tax, everyone has their hand out for each sale that is made in the state.

So, to get something cheaper locally and make up for the tax, it needs to be on sale, a sale that is saving more than 10 % + say $5 and then, it could be better than the internet sales price. If the sale is even better, it might be cheaper locally. The only real place here in Austin that does do this sometimes is called Fry’s Electronics. They will often sell a CPU at 10 % off list or better and then throw in a $80 motherboard for free, while at the same time selling the required memory at their cost. When they do this, you have to be ready to buy and hope you like the CPU/motherboard they have put on sale. More often than not, the free motherboard is an ECS (Elitegroup) make which is not as good as an ASUS, Gigabyte or MSI brand would be. Needless to say, I can’t buy when the sale is on most of the time, but ever so often, I can.

Thank You,

It would appear that there is an issue with openSUSE 11.3, using Kernel 2.6.34 in that USB3 drives will not initialize on boot. The net result is that you CAN NOT MOUNT a USB3 drive using your fstab file. USB3 drives still work, but you must unplug and then plug back in your USB3 drive to get it to work. You then must use a Mount terminal command as root to place it on a normal folder as you might do with fstab.

The only way to fix this issue using openSUSE 11.3 is to do a manual Kernel update to 2.6.35. I have done this and it works, but be aware that changing the kernel version in this way can lead to a disaster. It is doubtful that openSUSE 11.3 will ever allow the mounting of a USB3 drive from the fstab file as I see it without a manual Kernel update. If you are using a USB3 drive with openSUSE 11.2, I suggest you wait until opneSUSE 11.4 comes out, 18 months or so from now.

Thank You,

I just read that openSUSE 11.4 may come out in March of 2011, so it is not as far in the future as I had feared.

Thank You,

On 08/05/2010 04:36 PM, jdmcdaniel3 wrote:
>
> I just read that openSUSE 11.4 may come out in March of 2011, so it is
> not as far in the future as I had feared.

The cycle is 8 months, not 18.

Hi James,
My system is;

OS: Linux 2.6.34-12-desktop x86_64
Current user: danorske@linux-448y
System: openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64)
KDE: 4.4.4 (KDE 4.4.4) “release 2”

My USB3, 1 TB external HHD auto mounts on bootup. The USB2 one doesn’t. I have to mount it manually. Go figure. They were both plugged in when I installed the OS.

Ron also from Austin.

Well, like many things I hear about, that makes no sense to me. I can say that I have tried the USB3 thing on two different computers and openSUSE 11.3 (kernel 2.6.34) and the USB3 did would not come up without unplugging it and replugging it back in. Adding it to your fstab file did not cause it to work. On one motherboard the USB3 port is built-in and on one it is an add in card. In both cases the same, setup worked just fine under openSUSE 11.2 (kernel 2.6.31). And after updating one computer with USB3 to kernel 2.6.35, the USB3 drive comes up just fine under openSUSE 11.3. So, I am seeing a pattern here and further, I found problem reports associated with kernel 2.6.34 saying a problem did exist with USB3 devices.

Thank You,

On 08/06/2010 05:06 PM, jdmcdaniel3 wrote:
>
> Well, like many things I hear about, that makes no sense to me. I can
> say that I have tried the USB3 thing on two different computers and
> openSUSE 11.3 (kernel 2.6.34) and the USB3 did would not come up without
> unplugging it and replugging it back in. Adding it to your fstab file
> did not cause it to work. On one motherboard the USB3 port is built-in
> and on one it is an add in card. In both cases the same, setup worked
> just fine under openSUSE 11.2 (kernel 2.6.31). And after updating one
> computer with USB3 to kernel 2.6.35, the USB3 drive comes up just fine
> under openSUSE 11.3. So, I am seeing a pattern here and further, I
> found problem reports associated with kernel 2.6.34 saying a problem did
> exist with USB3 devices.

On most machines, the USB3 hardware worked just fine in USB2 compatibility mode
under 11.2. As the developers tried to get the enhanced capability working with
kernel 2.6.34, they missed some things because they did not have access to every
piece of hardware there is, and some vendors do not follow the rules for their
hardware. As testers found problems, the code was fixed and improved. For that
reason, 2.6.35 works on more systems that 2.6.34.

Are you a coder? If so, have you ever tried to write stuff for “unknown”
hardware with quirky behavior? I suspect that you have not.

I write software to control systems which include equipment made by the company I work for and equipment made by other companies. It is my job to make everything work together properly as a system, no matter who made it. This is different in that at some point, all things are known to me. Either it is made to work, or I toss it out and buy something else, if the cost can be controlled. If the costs are high, I toss it back upstairs. I have been in the systems business since 1975 and I have written binary drivers for all sorts of things in the past.

Does that mean that anything will work with everything? No not hardly, and if there is a good reason to use a certain brand or model over another I will use it or stick with it and toss out things not known to work. In the case of various USB3 adapters, I surely do not know all of the details. However, If something did work in kernel 2.6.31 and it does not work under 2.6.34, then the new kernel and its modifications are at fault and whom ever caused this issue, knowingly or unknowingly. Does that mean that some details are complex and one thing can affect another, well it sure can. The fact that the same functionality that existed under kernel 2.6.31 has been restored to kernel 2.6.35 shows that there are others that decided some sort of action was required, no matter what the exact reason might be.

Stuff is said to roll down hill and I have the advantage of producing the final product. I have NEVER failed in my 35 years in working with systems to meet the schedule and the specifications and to meet the customer requirements. I have failed a few times to make any money, and at least one time it caused me to look for a new employer. I understand the issues I think, but I do expect a better product in such a thing as the kernel. Not that bugs are some sort of surprise. And, notice I did not say I never made a mistake. I am in a position to fix my mistakes before they can affect others. This is the main difference in what I do and how the kernel is developed, and of course the number of people that it affects.

Now having a USB3 problem with Kernel 2.6.34 did not cause me to throw out openSUSE or Linux, but rather look for a solution. Further, it is my responsibility to inform others so that they can take the proper actions when necessary. I love working with openSUSE and it has become my offline passion to do the best I can for the product. There any many many things I do not understand about it and Linux in general, but if there is one thing for sure, I am trying to help and not trying to hurt anything.

Thank You,

On 08/06/2010 10:06 PM, jdmcdaniel3 wrote:
>
> I write software to control systems which include equipment made by the
> company I work for and equipment made by other companies. It is my job
> to make everything work together properly as a system, no matter who
> made it. This is different in that at some point, all things are known
> to me. Either it is made to work, or I toss it out and buy something
> else, if the cost can be controlled. If the costs are high, I toss it
> back upstairs. I have been in the systems business since 1975 and I
> have written binary drivers for all sorts of things in the past.

OK, you certainly have the experience. Now suppose that some customer wants to
use some device that you have never seen. That describes the current case. I am
certain that USB3 works on the developers systems. Even so, your is different.

> Does that mean that anything will work with everything? No not hardly,
> and if there is a good reason to use a certain brand or model over
> another I will use it or stick with it and toss out things not known to
> work. In the case of various USB3 adapters, I surely do not know all of
> the details. However, If something did work in kernel 2.6.31 and it
> does not work under 2.6.34, then the new kernel and its modifications
> are at fault and whom ever caused this issue, knowingly or unknowingly.
> Does that mean that some details are complex and one thing can affect
> another, well it sure can. The fact that the same functionality that
> existed under kernel 2.6.31 has been restored to kernel 2.6.35 shows
> that there are others that decided some sort of action was required, no
> matter what the exact reason might be.

All USB3 adapters will fall back to USB2, just as USB2 will fall back to USB1.1.
Kernel 2.6.31 worked on your device because that kernel never tried to exercise
the enhanced features. In 2.6.34, they tried to use the new capabilities.
Unfortunately, it does not work on your device.

> Stuff is said to roll down hill and I have the advantage of producing
> the final product. I have NEVER failed in my 35 years in working with
> systems to meet the schedule and the specifications and to meet the
> customer requirements. I have failed a few times to make any money, and
> at least one time it caused me to look for a new employer. I understand
> the issues I think, but I do expect a better product in such a thing as
> the kernel. Not that bugs are some sort of surprise. And, notice I did
> not say I never made a mistake. I am in a position to fix my mistakes
> before they can affect others. This is the main difference in what I do
> and how the kernel is developed, and of course the number of people that
> it affects.

You seem not to understand that Linux developers do not have access to every
piece of hardware that people want to use. This is not like you or the Windows
developers for the vendors who know exactly what hardware must be supported.

I have a recent example with the driver for the BCM43xx wireless device. Since
the beginning of Broadcom’s production of these devices, they have contained an
SPROM that is addresses at an MMIO offset of 0x1000. Suddenly, in some but not
all Netbooks, this offset was changed to 0x0800 with nothing mapped at 0x1000.
That alone would have been bad enough, but to make it worse, some but not all of
these boxes freeze when an attempt is made to read a non-existent address. Now,
are the developers responsible for this situation? As I did not have the
hardware, it was difficult to even learn the cause of the freeze. Fortunately, I
had the maintainer of wireless drivers to help debug. He was able to find the
reason for the freeze, but together we were unable to find a workaround until I
got my hands on a box with the trouble.