Recently I have been thinking of moving into tumbleweed to keep my system always up-to-date to the latest version without having to do major upgrades or fresh installs.
My internet connection is slow and it takes a very long time to do downloads and upgrades. And I do many customized configs that take much time so that I would like to keep them as my system was upgraded. These are some of the reasons why I think that turning my system into a rolling release would be more suitable for me.
However I have some doubts that I would like to know the answer before making this decision:
1 - When I upgrade Opensuse from 11.3 to 11.4 I had some problems. The upgrade process automatically uninstalled some applications that were not from standard repos such as vlc and rosegarden. Does that mean that everytime tumbleweed does a kernel upgrade it will uninstall apps that were not installed from tumbleweed repo?
2 - When I did the upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 hplip software did not work correctly. Sometimes I printed a page and when it arrived at the middle of it some lines started to be printed repeatedly as if they were in an endless loop. The question was solved when I gave up on my updated system and did a fresh install. Could similar problems occur after upgrades in tumbleweed?
3 - Currently I use nvidia drivers installed directly from Nvidia repos. I have read that for those who use tumbleweed it’s advisable to recompile nvidia drivers at every kernel upgrade. So what should I do with the nvidia drivers I have installed? Should I uninstall them? Can I keep on using them and take the risk to see if nvidia will provide updated drivers or if they will work after upgrades?
4 - I use some applications from another opensuse repos to keep them always up-to-date, such as musescore, emesene (from specific opensuse messaging repo), wine (from specific opensuse wine repo) and so forth, and some of them are not available at tumbleweed repos or are not as much up-to-date there . How could I keep them working after kernel upgrades in tumbleweed? Would it be enough to take those apps from the latest opensuse repos? (For example, use those apps from 11.4 repo. When a milestone is launched change my repos to 12.1 and so on.) Will I be able to keep those apps working or may I loose them at kernel upgrades?
1 Shouldn’t think so, apps only really get uninstalled when there are unsatisified dependencies, that’s not only true of tumbleweed btw
2 Possibly, if whatever caused the problem in the first place hasn’t been resolved, no way anyone could answer that one
3 If you’re using tumbleweed the nvidia repo has to be disabled and the nvidia driver recompiled after every kernel upgrade using ‘the hard way’ install - which isn’t very hard at all, you also have to do the hard way install on the initial switchover to tumbleweed, only takes a minute or two
4 After you switch over to tumbleweed you can enable other repos for non-standard apps and tumbleweed updates/kernel upgrades won’t necessarily break things
All the above aside, you should ALWAYS make a backup before switching to tumbleweed and before susbsequent zypper dup updates, but you make regular backups as a matter of course anyway right? 
If it’s of any use/interest when I do updates this Is the process I follow
Make a backup
Disable all but the repos recommended for the initial switch to tumbleweed which are the basic standard 11.4 and tumbleweed repos, run zypper dup
Make another backup and re-enable my other repos
Check Yast Online Update for updates to software that doesn’t come from the standard 11.4 and tumbleweed repos, because I have tumbleweed repos set to a higher priority than the others it’s unliklely that packages from the get uninstalled during a yast update but I always check on the versions tab where updates are coming from and what they’re replacing before I let it run
May not be the best way and I don’t doubt others do it differently, but it’s worked ok for me so far
I honestly don’t think TWeed is a good idea for you.
It sounds to me like you should concentrate on 11.4 as it is, get everything working and then really only run patches: ( zypper patch )
That keeps things to a minimum and shouldn’t disturb your finely tuned setup.
On 07/15/2011 06:36 AM, caf4926 wrote:
>
> I honestly don’t think TWeed is a good idea for you.
> It sounds to me like you should concentrate on 11.4 as it is, get
> everything working and then really only run patches: ( zypper patch )
> That keeps things to a minimum and shouldn’t disturb your finely tuned
> setup.
+1
imHo Tumbleweed is not a solution for those seeking stability,
dependability and constancy…
–
DD
Caveat-Hardware-Software
openSUSE®, the BMW® of operating systems!
To get “fresher” comfortable I would upgrade the internet connection if possible (though 256 Kb/s ought to easily suffice if you background downloads leaving it running overnight). Otherwise choose stability & low update churn.
A second system area, with a set up test install to sample the latest and greatest (options like FireFox Browser Sync make this more comfortable than old) but without fussing overly on custom tweaks for the “perfect” system; might be an option. You could periodically do a “zypper ref && zypper up -d” to download updates in background and test that. Not bothering with Packman for multimedia codecs, but only use plain old vanilla openSUSE Tumbleweed repo added to 11.4, would make this much more practical.
Or how about just using SuSE Studio, then downloading a Live CD/DVD? You can add the Tumbleweed & Packman repo at step 2, software selection, just after you choose your base system. It sounds like you could help the project by testing appliaction upgrades and filing bug reports about now for 12.1, more than 3 months before 12.1 is due.
Kernel upgrades ought not be a problem, enable multiversion in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf and you keep the old ones, till you delete them. It’s conflicts between the Tumbleweed repo & those building for straight 11.4 that are issue. Until OBS makes Tumble a full release, like Factory, 11.4, 11.3 there will remain this problem.
On a production system, I would track at least 4 months behind the lastest, or even just roll a release behind, so update to 11.4 after 12.1 comes out to minimise updates & maximise stability whilst receiving security updates & serious bug support; even then trying out in “throw away” install is a good idea, before upgrading; if possible copying current install into new partition, to find upgrade problems, without losing the stable set up.
Could also set it all up in a vm for the fun of seeing what breaks
Tumbleweed’s getting a lot better though, on the machine I’m using to play with tumbleweed I’ve got 7 other repos besides the 11.4 and tumbleweed ones due to various one-click installations and just kept the repos there
Seems so long since I’ve been able to break stuff it’s almost getting boring … maybe I’m just not trying hard enough
due to various one-click installations and just kept the repos there
danger…
I agree with caf4926. I don’t think Tumbleweed is for you.
Reference your questions, my answer:
(1) maybe
(2) yes
(3) uninstall proprietary, install nouveau
(4) maybe not enough from latest repos, dependant on what you expect/get from other repos.
Time you got a factory install then Index of /factory-tested/repo, so other ppl break stuff for you 
Ah well … keeps life interesting
Seriously though, I see it as an exercise in just how risky it is, not so much so far and there’s always backups or reinstalls, seeing as how it’s a machine for all play and no work it don’t matter too much, serious stuff goes on elsewhere
Well I do have a few spare drives lying around and planning on crackin open a few beers tonight so I just might take you at your word on that lol!
Thank you for all the answers. Very diversified viewpoints!
Well, I recently I realized that much of my system tuning is stored on /home folder that is in a partition separated from the system partition. So it would not be much tragical to do reinstalls. I always use clonezilla so if I break something I may be able to restore it.
What is more annoying is that I have slow internet connection so it takes much time to install apps that don’t come with the standard install such as rosegarden, musescore, wine, pdftk and so on.
Even with all your answers there’s something I didn’t understand:
When one uses tumbleweed and wants an app that is not in tumbleweed repos what repo should he use? (11.4 repo? 12.1 repo? other?)
And if someone has technical knowledge please, help in one more thing:
If I have my apps up to the latest version in opensuse 11.4 (example: the latest kde, latest firefox…) and I upgrade to 12.1 all those apps will be downloaded and installed again from 12.1 repos to satisfy dependences or will they be used the way they are in 11.4?
And what about tumbleweed? When there’s a kernel update all apps are updated too or they remain the wya they are?
anyone with a slow internet connection should NEVER use Tumbleweed. Its not uncommon to get 1GB downloads for tumbleweed every couple of weeks or so.
Learn how to use the Packman packager site search: PackMan :: Suche nach Paketen which will provide many multimedia apps. Packman packager site is the largest 3rd party repository for openSUSE.
Learn how to use the site: software.opensuse.org: Search Results (which does NOT search Packman packager site). In particular, learn how to use the ‘search options’ and select ‘Include user’s home projects’
Having typed that, keep your repositories down to a minimum (ie continually prune them) with ONLY OSS, Non-OSS, Update and Packman repository.
Mostly yes. Maybe no.
I recommend you forget about Tumbleweed. You do not have the NECESSARY bandwidth. But when there is a kernel update, the dependencies will pull in an extra needed applications.
Thanks. The idea behind rolling releases are good but they after these explanations it seems that they are of no more much help than the major upgrades.
I will keep on the safier procedure of using major releases.
On 08/08/2011 11:56 PM, fernando a martin wrote:
>
> I will keep on the safier procedure of using major releases.
that is what i decided for my ‘production system’…and, i wait some
months after release to make the move to the next release…
i would only run Tumbleweed or first day issue on a sandbox. (as far as
i’m concerned openSUSE 11.4 (with or without Tumbleweed) is beta for
SLE_ 11 SP-something)
ymmv
–
DD
Caveat-Hardware-Software
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!
Tumbleweed suits someone who’s wanting “state of the art” and likes frequent small changes without bandwidth problems; because it distributes packages considered by developers stable, not grumpy grizzled sysadmins with 20+ servers to look after. It’s the problem of being an “early adopter” you run into problems before the solutions are available.
Another rolling distro could be more conservative based off the experience gained by a release like Tumbleweed, by tracking it and avoiding the glitches that arise, it’s the amount of testing & assurance, not the release model that makes the difference. A “stable” release of openSUSE in past has tended to have quite a few issues early in it’s cycle, which is the reason I tend to advocate 4 months behind for production systems, as by then there’s a couple of rounds of updates providing important bug fixes, as well as the known problems & work rounds being fresh in minds and tending to be documented.
I have found these last ideas to be quite effective. When I switched to 11.4 I had some small issues such as the absence of linux-atm packages need for my dsl connection. But it was about 2 months after the release and there were already instructions online about how to work around it. Later 11.4 improved further with bug fixes and more stable updates such as the change for a firefox 5.
Don’t be the first to take a new trend nor the last to give up on a old one.
I have one questiion about Tumbleweed. I could not find clear answer.
When OS12.1 comes out, do we have to upgrade it just like normal users?
Or just “zypper dup” as always, and ignore the fact 12.1 was released?
From what I’ve seen some packages, for example aaa_base, are version 12.1 already.
btw. about bandwidth, some users (including me) think that LibreOffice updates are too frequent, still the version is 3.3.3, so not a big (if any) difference for end user.
Banshee is next on this list, but it’s much smaller
On 25.08.2011 11:36, sobrus wrote:
>
> I have one questiion about Tumbleweed. I could not find clear answer.
>
> When OS12.1 comes out, do we have to upgrade it just like normal users?
> Or just “zypper dup” as always, and ignore the fact 12.1 was released?
When 12.1 is out and officially released, just change the repos to point
to normal 12.1 repos and you will have normal 12.1
If you want to keep on going with the next Tumbleweed change the repos
to the next Tumbleweed ones, which ever number they will be…
Vahis
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default “Evergreen” main host
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop in VirtualBox
openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.3-41-desktop “Tumbleweed” in EeePC 900
But Tumbleweed has no version number (Tumbleweed for 11.3 was an exception, as it was just a test release).
Or am I wrong?
By the time 12.1 will be released, Tumbleweed should be ahead of it.
As far as I know, after Milestone 4, there will be no new features added to 12.1.
So probably it won’t even use kernel 3.1 -something that Tumbleweed users will get pretty soon after it is released.
Im expecting something like:
- im leaving Tumbleweed repo (and all other Tumbleweed repos , Packman-Tumbleweed etc) as they are
- im changing just 11.4 repos to 12.1
- zypper dup
but maybe I’m wrong about it.
It would make little difference, Im just curious
On 25.08.2011 12:16, sobrus wrote:
>
> But Tumbleweed has no version number (Tumbleweed for 11.3 was an
> exception, as it was just a test release).
> Or am I wrong?
Tumbleweed is always based on the latest release.
>
> By the time 12.1 will be released, Tumbleweed should be ahead of it.
There should be a moment where they are the same.
Factory normally gets frozen for a while then and anything in Tumbleweed
must always be in factory first.
There have been few exceptions to this.
I personally intend to stay in 12.1 on my laptop at that stage.
Tumbleweed is too actively updated to my laptop use.
I will continue to run it in virtual desktop
on an Evergreen server 
> As far as I know, after Milestone 4, there will be no new features
> added to 12.1.
I think it’s like that.
> So probably it won’t even use kernel 3.1 -something that Tumbleweed
> users will get pretty soon after it is released.
We’ll see.
Anything Tumbleweed has must be in Factory though.
Greg k-h is the kernel guy and the maintainer of Tumbleweed, he’s on the
factory mailing list…
>
> Im expecting something like:
> - im leaving Tumbleweed repo (and all other Tumbleweed repos ,
> Packman-Tumbleweed etc) as they are
> - im changing just 11.4 repos to 12.1
> - zypper dup
>
> but maybe I’m wrong about it.
In that stage you will then have 12.1 Tumbleweed.
>
> It would make little difference, Im just curious
Curious is good
Vahis
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default “Evergreen” main host
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.7-desktop in VirtualBox
openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.3-41-desktop “Tumbleweed” in EeePC 900