I am a long time Linux user and have been running OpenSUSE on my primary laptop computer for just over a year now, first with OpenSUSE 11.4 and now 12.1. I am considering switching to Tumbleweed but I have a few basic questions. If my understanding of Tumbleweed is correct, users will never do a distribution upgrade again after switching to Tumbleweed. So, assuming I start with OpenSUSE 12.1 and then upgrade to Tumbleweed, here are my questions:
Is there a life span for a 12.1->Tumbleweed installation or will it be supported indefinitely (forever)?
Will Tumbleweed provide an upgrade from legacy grub to grub2 at some point? I ask this since OpenSUSE 12.2 will use grub2 whereas my 12.1 installation uses legacy grub.
Will Tumbleweed include other similar non-trivial wholesale package upgrades (for example, gnome2 to gnome3 say for a 11.4->Tumbleweed installation)?
As I understand it, you will need to upgrade to the new openSUSE version such as 12.2, when it is released and that support for 12.1 will end as normal, including Tumbleweed for 12.1. Since there has been an issue with openSUSE 12.2 making its release schedule and talk that this may change, anything is possible, but I doubt that openSUSE 12.1 with Tumbleweed will be supported forever. So, if you must switch to openSUSE 12.2, you will get the default grub2, which you could switch back to grub legacy, for now, if you wanted to. Whole sale upgrades of desktops is a different issue and really the whole thing comes down to if you must switch to the next major openSUSE version upgrade or not. Right now, I would say no, it will not work that way, but I could be wrong in the future on that one. I think we need to keep a close eye on the new openSUSE release and what we learn from that when it is complete.
On 06/21/2012 10:56 AM, gldickens3 wrote:
>
> I am a long time Linux user and have been running OpenSUSE on my primary
> laptop computer for just over a year now, first with OpenSUSE 11.4 and
> now 12.1. I am considering switching to Tumbleweed but I have a few
> basic questions. If my understanding of Tumbleweed is correct, users
> will never do a distribution upgrade again after switching to
> Tumbleweed. So, assuming I start with OpenSUSE 12.1 and then upgrade to
> Tumbleweed, here are my questions:
>
>
>
> - Is there a life span for a 12.1->Tumbleweed installation or will it
> be supported indefinitely (forever)?
Tumbleweed repositories are continually upgrading. There are four
prongs, viz:
1: Packman-Tumbleweed repo (using temporally-changing factory-stable
packages)
2: Tumbleweed-repo (using temporally-changing factory-stable packages)
3: openSUSE-current repo (using the 8-month static packages from the
current release)
4: updates to the static packages in openSUSE-current
All of the transience is managed for you behind the scenes so that if
you have the four repos above, then continual upgrading occurs. Item (3)
has it’s packages changed on the current 8-month cycle. So there is no
way to hang on to the underlying 12.1 beyond the release time of 12.2
(whenever that might be, we don’t exactly know right now).
> - Will Tumbleweed provide an upgrade from legacy grub to grub2 at
> some point? I ask this since OpenSUSE 12.2 will use grub2 whereas my
> 12.1 installation uses legacy grub.
Tumbleweed will make no departures from the 12.x, 13.x etc path, i.e.
whatever bootloaders exist in 12.2, 12.3, 12.4 etc, they will exist
concurrently in Tumbleweed, without special adaptation/departures from
openSUSE standard.
> - Will Tumbleweed include other similar non-trivial wholesale package
> upgrades (for example, gnome2 to gnome3 say for a 11.4->Tumbleweed
> installation)?
Tumbleweed upgrades to the current factory-stable stream. If (for
example) someone has openSUSE 11.4 and attaches the Tumbleweed repos,
then after running “zypper dup” the 11.4 packages will be substantially
replaced in the upgrade to become current with factory-stable (and that
would include the DEs like Gnome & KDE).
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gordon
>
>
Say if you are running 12.1 and ‘dup’ to tumbleweed
Once 12.2 is released and you ‘dup’ (that’s the normal update process in tumbleweed), you will effectively be running 12.2.
Although, I suspect: cat /etc/SuSE-release
May still show 12.1
Not 100% sure though
I’m not sure about Grub either in a 12.1 Tumbleweed update post 12.2 release
My gut feeling is, if legacy is still available, it may remain.
Thanks to jdmcdaniel3, Swerdna and caf4926 for your replies! However, I want to clear up some apparent contradictions between your posts. If I am reading swerdna’s post correctly, once I do the distribution upgrade to Tumbleweed with “zypper dup” then all subsequent software upgrades will be handled by the Tumbleweed repos with “zypper up”. That is, for example, the “current” repos are now pointing to repos which are based on OpenSUSE 12.1, however, when 12.2 comes out then the “current” repos will be adjusted behind the scenes to be based on OpenSUSE 12.2. In another words, if I understand Swerdna correctly, once the distribution upgrade is performed to switch to Tumbleweed then “zypper dup” will not ever be used again going forward as a Tumbleweed user. That is, the continual upgrading of Tumbleweed is handled behind the scenes in the four basic Tumbleweed repos which are upgraded to whatever OpenSUSE version is current. After reading the Tumbleweed Wiki, I believe that Swerdna’s description is accurate, however, both jdmcdaniel3 and caf4926 contradict this by implying that the user must do “zypper dup” upgrades for each new OpenSUSE version thereafter thereby not relying on the “behind the scenes” adjustments to the “current” repos as described by Swerdna.
Sorry for belaboring this and it is entirely possible that I am misunderstanding these comments as well. However, I want to confirm my understanding of Swerdna’s description since the other two posters appeared to contradict Swerdna. If so, then the answer to my first question in my original post is: In theory, Tumbleweed should be supported indefinitely (forever) since the Tumbleweed “current” repos are updated behind the scenes to reflect the current OpenSUSE fixed distribution release version (eg. 11.4, 12.1, 12.2, etc.).
Otherwise, if jdmcdaniel3 and caf4926 are correct then a change of repos and “zypper dup” will be required with each new fixed distribution release version (eg. 11.4, 12.1, 12.2, etc.).
Swerdna, jdmcdaniel3 and caf4926; Please confirm whose description is correct. Or alternatively, please explain how I may have misinterpreted your replies.
Ahh… I see the recommendation in Swerdna’s article to always use “zypper dup” instead of “zypper up”. Sorry! Thanks for the clarification! I mistakenly thought that “zypper dup” and “zypper up” would do the same thing as long as my repos had not changed.
Just to confirm then: In theory, Tumbleweed should be supported indefinitely (forever) since the Tumbleweed “current” repos are updated behind the scenes to reflect the current OpenSUSE fixed distribution release version (eg. 11.4, 12.1, 12.2, etc.).
On 2012-06-21 02:56, gldickens3 wrote:
> If my understanding of Tumbleweed is correct, users
> will never do a distribution upgrade again after switching to
> Tumbleweed.
You will be doing hundreds of them.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
On 06/23/2012 04:36 AM, sergiom99 wrote:
>
> gldickens3;2470730 Wrote:
>> Ahh… I see the recommendation in Swerdna’s article to always use
>> “zypper dup” instead of “zypper up”. Sorry! Thanks for the
>> clarification! I mistakenly thought that “zypper dup” and “zypper up”
>> would do the same thing as long as my repos had not changed.
>>
>
> So, does it means that we must ignore the Apper update icon in systray
> and go with “zypper dup” instead?
> Thanks!
>
>
Absolutely