Thoughts on the announcement by Richard Brown? Would it be worthwhile to
just have a slower release cycle? If you havent seen it yet the
presentation in available here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH99TSrfvq0&feature=youtu.be
It is also discussed on the mailing list here
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-05/msg00001.html
and
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-05/msg00002.html
–
openSUSE Tumbleweed 64 bit
Plasma 5
Thanks for the links!
After have look upon the video I found the idea interesting (this is of course there will be a KDE-version :P).
At home using openSUSE 13.2 on main work Latop and on my main DE. 13.1 on server and server VM’s(going to evergreen(what will happen to that distro?)). Thumbleweed goes to fast for me at the moment. It was also showed at the video (a “slow week”), lot of changes in Thumbleweed.
To have the stability from SLE but still there are packages from the fast development from openSUSE? Sounds like a dream to me.
On the workside? For SBO 5-100 employes (a example) that can offer the same. Defiantly a interesting idea.
regards
On 05/01/2015 08:43 PM, alanbortu wrote:
> Thoughts on the announcement by Richard Brown? Would it be worthwhile to
> just have a slower release cycle? If you havent seen it yet the
> presentation in available here
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH99TSrfvq0&feature=youtu.be
>
> It is also discussed on the mailing list here
> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-05/msg00001.html
> and
> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-05/msg00002.html
>
Two things. (with regards to the “stable regular release” idea)
We sort of get an openSLE+ That is, a SLE core with extra packages. Right
now, there isn’t anything like this. At best you track to the openSUSE that is
roughly the same generation of SLE. But realize that there are even
differences between SLED and SLES (not much though, talking about the core).
On the SLE side of fence, we’ll now be able to pull compatible packages or
build them on OBS and use them in SLE without (again) having to take random
guesses about which openSUSE version will roughly match up. We sort of get
this today but for a limited time as SLE moves slowly and openSUSE moves
quickly. So sometimes it difficult to match up after a couple of years. This
correlates to the fact that this new “stable regular release” doesn’t do as many
radical moves as openSUSE traditonally has… and those more radical moves will
primarily be focused in Tumbleweed.
I think it’s a good idea and solves headaches for SLE users needing repos for
add-ons not in SLE, as well community users needing a free-er SLE base possibly
with additional packages.
None of this is really like CentOS… it’s better than CentOS. CentOS is
rebuilt RHEL. No opportunity for cross sharing. One could also argue (now)
that openSUSE is a community based distro (always good) and CentOS has been
p0wned by Red Hat (which could be good or bad… you never know).
I would urge anyone who wants their view considered by more than just our forum, but also considered by the openSUSE packagers/developers and the SUSE Linux Enterprise packagers/developers, to join the mailing lists and post on the “opensuse-project” mailing list thread.
Which is not to say there is anything wrong with posting here - but rather its just a reminder to all that the mailing lists is typically where the “real” influence making discussions , into future directions, takes place.
The video noted above is also well worth one’s time in watching (~30+ minutes) if one is curious as to what this is all about.
Cjoxs at home or huge wite dogs, cjoxs is a wise person. Or may i attach a Samojeds that cloose he (her) his jaws…
This is good advice, I really WOULD like as much of the discussion carried out in opensuse-project@opensuse.org because having to collate information from hundreds of sources is very painful work, and you cant really get good ‘discussions’ going with lots of people in lots of different places…
That said, don’t think I’m not looking here when I have the time 
thanks for the good feedback so far
Well upp urs on the videdo.R.B when have the time, at least you have some minutes here.
I still agree upon that and please go on at a interesting idea. And i agree. Please continue.
Best reagards
On that basis, thanks for looking in here as & when, my feedback must be positive having read factory ML etc. as of today. Not surprising, as last year I settled on running Tumbleweed/KDE (original and new) alongside Evergreen (11.4/gnome2 > 13.1/KDE) rather than current release:).
From a purely product positioning viewpoint for both openSUSE and SLE, it makes a lot of sense. Can we expect to see improvements in documentation and notification, resulting from merging core components, i.e. shared resources?
On 2015-05-03 00:46, jonte1 wrote:
> I still agree upon that and please go on at a interesting idea. And i
> agree. Please continue.
I like the idea, in general. There is something that I don’t quite like
though… that the core packages will be quite older than those at use
on the tumbleweed of the moment, but with a ton of patches.
For instance, I read the kernel at 13.3 would be a lower version than
what is now on 13.2. That’s one year delay, at least. That’s a step
backwards.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))
Ignoring version numbers, how much of a step back would it really be? Would it be too much of a headache to maintain packages? Would there be genuine loss in features for opensuse “stable”?
I just feel like anyone who cares about having latest and greatest would use Tumbleweed and then everyone else could rely on opensuse “stable” + repos from obs for newer version of software. I used to do this when I used 13.1/13.2 and it always worked fine. I imagine that it would be more work for older packages though.
Excellent presentation.
Seems like these changes could give Debian and Arch a run for their money. Most people choose Debian because it is rock solid stable with 3-5 years of support, Arch because it is bleeding edge and customizable…build your own distro so to speak. With these changes openSUSE has the potential to attract both sides: 3 year stability/support and also those who want latest and greatest with a rolling release!
Very interesting indeed.
How ever did you manage when running Evergreen (11.4)? Not so long ago, was it?
I agree the kernel being older might be a concern, maybe wrt laptop support, but I guess it might now be worth downloading SLE 12 to see what impact it could have.
On 2015-05-03 21:56, consused wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2707972 Wrote:
>>
>> I like the idea, in general. There is something that I don’t quite like
>> though… that the core packages will be quite older than those at use
>> on the tumbleweed of the moment, but with a ton of patches.
>>
>> For instance, I read the kernel at 13.3 would be a lower version than
>> what is now on 13.2. That’s one year delay, at least. That’s a step
>> backwards.
> How ever did you manage when running Evergreen (11.4)? Not so long ago,
> was it?
But that’s a choice I made, and it did have an impact. I choose to keep
using a release for longer.
The issue now is that when we install 13.3 the first time, the kernel
will already be quite old, and probably will not support recent
hardware. The people using SLES are told to use certified hardware, for
servers, known to work; but people using the plain openSUSE expect the
current distribution to work with their recently bought computers.
> I agree the kernel being older might be a concern, maybe wrt laptop
> support, but I guess it might now be worth downloading SLE 12 to see
> what impact it could have. 
It will never be known till done, and people report here (in the forums,
mostly, not in the mail lists).
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))
There is always some impact. 
Like when regressions are delivered in the current so-called stable releases, ouch!
The issue now is that when we install 13.3 the first time, the kernel
will already be quite old, and probably will not support recent
hardware.
I understood you the first time. The current release doesn’t always fully support recent hardware e.g laptop features such as new types of touchpad
The people using SLES are told to use certified hardware, for
servers, known to work; but people using the plain openSUSE expect the
current distribution to work with their recently bought computers.
Expect - yes, get - only sometimes. Is the certification also true for SLED?
> I agree the kernel being older might be a concern, maybe wrt laptop
> support, but I guess it might now be worth downloading SLE 12 to see
> what impact it could have.
It will never be known till done…
But it could at least be a practical guide to the potential impact.
Hi all,
I’m not really a developer nor a significant contributor to openSUSE, and get enough emails already, so I’m not part of the openSUSE mailinglist where input was recommended. But from the standpoint of a longtime hobbyist, I noticed his proposed release structure had some merits, but some serious drawbacks.
While sharing code with SLE saves both openSUSE on time and effort by creating room for more collaboration with a common code base, and creates the dreamy hyper-stable and yet also an awesome SUSEish distro that you can have a lot of fun with, it creates a gap for a certain set of users.
Tumbleweed, while pretty stable, does involve a lot of updating that will be hard for those on metered connections and can sometimes break things. It is indeed great for people who want the latest and greatest, but isn’t quite up to par yet for production systems. And VirtualBox guest additions are dicey at best with the constant kernel refreshes.
If the only alternative to Tumbleweed is Brown’s proposed SLE base and openSUSE mix, the only production quality option will be stale by 3 years, more of a museum than Debian is most of the time. For an enthusiast distro by many standards, this would turn off users who want something a little new and fun yet appropriate for daily use.
A nice compromise solution would be to have an LTS/Evergreen-like openSUSE release and a SLE release at the same time and with a shared codebase, and share patches and develop the foundation together. In between the LTSs there could be snapshots of Tumbleweed every 8 or 12 months with a little of TLC and debugging then receive support for like 18 months or 2 years like the current release system to continue to provide the nice middle of the road distribution that openSUSE is today.
Having a distro between the Debians and CentOSes and the Fedora/Archs is more of an asset than a liability for much of who uses openSUSE, and having more diverse options that use potential cooperation with SUSE and yet satisfy those who like to tumble, those who like to stay on a stable distro for a while, and those who are in between like me and many others would be a quite ideal and efficient situation.
Please let me know what you think and if it is mailinglist worthy.
You might also want to see this http://bambuser.com/v/5478930 Starts after 25-30 min wait.
Website being hacked together already 
I doubt you get release no. 3 to fill the gab. Gab is the idea.
Is sad to get another backwards distro but they are at least clear about motives. Potential contributors are interesting, “users” less. Deep thoughts about “sys admins” vs. “developers” follows.
To reduce the proliferation of threads on this subject, I am going to merge this thread with the existing one: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/507129-OSC15-The-Future-is-unwritten
I ask the NNTP users do NOT reply to this thread, but instead go to " Community & Fun > General Chit-Chat > OSC15 - The Future is unwritten " thread and post there.
I will post again after this thread has been moved/merged and it is free for posting on again. Thankyou to all for your understanding during this merge.
I also would like to take this opportunity to again urge anyone who wants their view considered by more than just our forum, but also considered by the openSUSE packagers/developers and the SUSE Linux Enterprise packagers/developers, to join the mailing lists and post on the “opensuse-project” mailing list thread.
Which is not to say there is anything wrong with posting here - but rather its just a reminder to all that the mailing lists is typically where the “real” influence making discussions , into future directions, takes place.
Merged…
At my request the thread started by jcat123 was merged with the thread started by alanbortu. I have quoted below a post from jacat123’s thread, so that NNTP users can see same posts.
On 2015-05-04 15:16, oldcpu wrote:
>
> At my request the thread started by jcat123 was merged with the thread
> started by alanbortu. I have quoted below a post from jacat123’s
> thread, so that NNTP users can see same posts.
>
Ok… I hope I’m posting on the write nntp thread.
> jcat123;2708188 Wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I’m not really a developer nor a significant contributor to openSUSE,
>> and get enough emails already, so I’m not part of the openSUSE
>> mailinglist where input was recommended.
You can also access via gmane and their nntp gateway. No email.
>> But from the standpoint of a
>> longtime hobbyist, I noticed his proposed release structure had some
>> merits, but some serious drawbacks.
…
>> If the only alternative to Tumbleweed is Brown’s proposed SLE base and
>> openSUSE mix, the only production quality option will be stale by 3
>> years, more of a museum than Debian is most of the time. For an
>> enthusiast distro by many standards, this would turn off users who want
>> something a little new and fun yet appropriate for daily use.
Yes. That’s what I think, too.
Normal “openSUSE stable” users (to differentiate from tumbleweed)
typically want a mix of stability and still fairly recent software. If
the new method means I’ll get 3 year old software, I don’t like it.
>> A nice compromise solution would be to have an LTS/Evergreen-like
>> openSUSE release and a SLE release at the same time and with a shared
>> codebase, and share patches and develop the foundation together. In
>> between the LTSs there could be snapshots of Tumbleweed every 8 or 12
>> months with a little of TLC and debugging then receive support for like
>> 18 months or 2 years like the current release system to continue to
>> provide the nice middle of the road distribution that openSUSE is today.
>>
Something like that, yes.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))