openSUSE on 20gb SSD: which party should get a partition on another hd?

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1

Hi,
i want to install openSUSE 12.3 on a 20GB SSD + 500GB non-SSD notebook. My plan is to use the SSD for the OS and the other hd for the rest.
It is clear that i need an own partition for /home but i noticed that 20GB are slightly less than i need for the non /home parts on my current system.
So my question is which parts can i safely put on the SSD (i.e. definitely need less than 20gb ) and what parts should get their own partition on the other hd (what parts do not have to be on the ssd to make my system fast)

And btw is it possible not to have to partition the non ssd? I.e. when i do not need to split up my system i can put everything on one partition (simply be having only a partition for “/”) this way i do not have to be absolutely sure about the hd usage of each directory. In my 20/500 configuration above i would put the “/” on the ssd and at least two parts on the other HD but ideally i would put all of the rest on one partition, because i do not exactly know how much of the space each part will need in the end and i do not want to waste space here.

2

On 2013-07-10 14:36, sabo007 wrote:
>
> Hi,
> i want to install openSUSE 12.3 on a 20GB SSD + 500GB non-SSD notebook.
> My plan is to use the SSD for the OS and the other hd for the rest.
> It is clear that i need an own partition for /home but i noticed that
> 20GB are slightly less than i need for the non /home parts on my current
> system.

So, put /home on the hard disk.

> And btw is it possible not to have to partition the non ssd?

Er… no.

You just create /home and swap on the hard disk, the ssd is just “/”.

> I.e. when
> i do not need to split up my system i can put everything on one
> partition (simply be having only a partition for “/”) this way i do not
> have to be absolutely sure about the hd usage of each directory. In my
> 20/500 configuration above i would put the “/” on the ssd and at least
> two parts on the other HD but ideally i would put all of the rest on one
> partition, because i do not exactly know how much of the space each part
> will need in the end and i do not want to waste space here.

No way. You can not put swap and /home on the same partition, they need
to be separate partitions.

You can have swap as a file, yes, but then you can not hibernate - not
hibernate a notebook? I don’t think you want that.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

3

I m not completely sure that I understand your last question, but you can not join two parts of the directory tree in one file system (and thus one partition). One file system has one mountpoint If that expresses it better for you).

See also: SDB:Basics of partitions, filesystems, mount points - openSUSE

BTW, Idid not see you mention a swap partition, that should also be a thing to think about.

4

I’m confused with most of what you’ve written but I’ll try to answer whatever points I can.

On 2013-07-10, sabo007 <sabo007@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> i want to install openSUSE 12.3 on a 20GB SSD + 500GB non-SSD notebook.

Good - I take it this is the only OS you want on the computer.

> My plan is to use the SSD for the OS and the other hd for the rest.
> It is clear that i need an own partition for /home but i noticed that
> 20GB are slightly less than i need for the non /home parts on my current
> system.
> So my question is which parts can i safely put on the SSD (i.e.
> definitely need less than 20gb ) and what parts should get their own
> partition on the other hd (what parts do not have to be on the ssd to
> make my system fast)

20 GB is tiny. I’d probably just use it for /swp/ and stick the rest on the 500GB. Or get another SSD because a 20 GB
SSD has not a lot of use in the long term.

> And btw is it possible not to have to partition the non ssd?

I don’t understand. It’s always possible not to have a partition.

> I.e. when
> i do not need to split up my system i can put everything on one
> partition (simply be having only a partition for “/”) this way i do not
> have to be absolutely sure about the hd usage of each directory.

Sure. You can just have a single partition for the entire 500GB, and use the SSD as /swp/.

> In my
> 20/500 configuration above i would put the “/” on the ssd and at least
> two parts on the other HD but ideally i would put all of the rest on one
> partition, because i do not exactly know how much of the space each part
> will need in the end and i do not want to waste space here.

In theory you could put /' on the SSD since an openSUSE 12.3 install is less than 10 GB. So another configuration is to put /’ and /swp/ on your SSD and use your 500 GB for /home/ (i.e. Data).

But I think that’s a rubbish idea for two reasons:

  1. You start installing lots of programs and in no time you will fill that 20 GB in no time and without warning you’re
    full.

  2. If your SSD is 20 GB, it’s also old. It’s therefore a) slow compared to modern SSDs and b) likely to die tomorrow.
    So using it to improve performance is probably a false economy.

So IMO your best bet is rip out the 20 GB SSD. If you want to replace it with a new one, then that’s fine because at
least you’re sure you’re getting something reasonably fast with a useful capacity.

5

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2013-07-10 14:36, sabo007 wrote:
>> Hi,
>> i want to install openSUSE 12.3 on a 20GB SSD + 500GB non-SSD notebook.
>> My plan is to use the SSD for the OS and the other hd for the rest.
>> It is clear that i need an own partition for /home but i noticed that
>> 20GB are slightly less than i need for the non /home parts on my current
>> system.
>
> So, put /home on the hard disk.
>
>> And btw is it possible not to have to partition the non ssd?
>
> Er… no.
>
> You just create /home and swap on the hard disk, the ssd is just “/”.
>
>> I.e. when
>> i do not need to split up my system i can put everything on one
>> partition (simply be having only a partition for “/”) this way i do not
>> have to be absolutely sure about the hd usage of each directory. In my
>> 20/500 configuration above i would put the “/” on the ssd and at least
>> two parts on the other HD but ideally i would put all of the rest on one
>> partition, because i do not exactly know how much of the space each part
>> will need in the end and i do not want to waste space here.

You can do this easily. Make a single partition on the hard disk and
format it for LVM. Then you can easily adjust the sizes of whatever
filesystems you want to put there (/home /var swap?)

> No way. You can not put swap and /home on the same partition, they need
> to be separate partitions.
>
> You can have swap as a file, yes, but then you can not hibernate - not
> hibernate a notebook? I don’t think you want that.

I don’t know anything about this but this page suggests that you can,
although it’s probably easier on a partition

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Swap#Swap_file_resuming

6

Ok i thought it would be possible to have “/’” on the ssd and swap, /usr (assuming that /usr is where the software goes, as i indeed install “a lot” of software thats the reason iam asking), /home on the other HD. But splitting it up seems a waste of space for me, why cant i just handle them as directorys as if i had only the “/” partition, everything like /home, /usr, /etc is just handled as directorys not filesystems? But if it is not possible i have to find another way.

Btw. my plan is to put windows 7 on the system too.

7

On 2013-07-10, sabo007 <sabo007@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> But splitting it up seems a waste of space for me, why cant i just
> handle them as directorys as if i had only the “/” partition, everything
> like /home, /usr, /etc is just handled as directorys not filesystems?

You can. Only /swp/ requires it’s own filesystem, and even then you can violate this guideline since swap structures can
be treated (albeit rather inefficiently) within an ext4 partition.

But more to the point, there’s very little to be gained splitting in your case unless you had 64 GB SSD or larger.

8

ok, but the thing is, i do not have the notebook, iam expecting it to get it in a few days (iam doing this for a friend of mine whose pc this is). And iam expecting that Windows 7 will already be installed on it, probably it will be on the ssd.
And if i got your points right, then i should not change this in this case. I should simply split the non-sdd hd with some windows tool (maybe split about 340-400gb away from it), create a new partition and put the whole opensuse on it? This should work right? Is there a free windows partitioner you can suggest?

9

On 2013-07-10 16:26, sabo007 wrote:
>
> Ok i thought it would be possible to have “/’” on the ssd and swap, /usr
> (assuming that /usr is where the software goes,

Why do you want /usr on a separate partition? Who told you to do that? :-o

as i indeed install “a
> lot” of software thats the reason iam asking), /home on the other HD.
> But splitting it up seems a waste of space for me, why cant i just
> handle them as directorys as if i had only the “/” partition, everything
> like /home, /usr, /etc is just handled as directorys not filesystems?

Why do you want usr and etc not as directories, but as separate
partitions? Where are you getting that idea from?

You can have everything in a single partition, system, home, all. You
need to put swap on a file, too, and if you want hibernation you have to
handle that yourself.

We put /home on a separate partition for one main reason: it allows you
to update “/”, with the system, separately from your data in /home. And
in the case of a small SSD disk, it can be placed on the large disk.

We put swap on a separate partition because it is easier than on a file.

We do not put usr, etc, var, boot, etc on a separate partition unless we
have a good reason to do it - and no, I will not tell you why, because
you do not need to do that.

So that’s 3 partitions: system (/), home and swap.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

10

On 2013-07-10 17:06, sabo007 wrote:
>
> ok, but the thing is, i do not have the notebook, iam expecting it to
> get it in a few days (iam doing this for a friend of mine whose pc this
> is). And iam expecting that Windows 7 will already be installed on it,
> probably it will be on the ssd.

You should have waited till on your hands.

There is a method with Windows where the ssd is not a separate disk, but
a dynamic cache for the HD; this is not compatible with Linux. In this
case you have to reinstall Windows again in some other, traditional, way.

> And if i got your points right, then i should not change this in this
> case. I should simply split the non-sdd hd with some windows tool (maybe
> split about 340-400gb away from it), create a new partition and put the
> whole opensuse on it? This should work right? Is there a free windows
> partitioner you can suggest?
>
>

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

11

On 2013-07-10, sabo007 <sabo007@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
> ok, but the thing is, i do not have the notebook, iam expecting it to
> get it in a few days (iam doing this for a friend of mine whose pc this
> is). And iam expecting that Windows 7 will already be installed on it,
> probably it will be on the ssd.

In which case if you want to preserve Windows 7, then you will have to come back to us to let us know the partition
arrangement once you have it. I would be very surprised if Windows 7 fitted onto 20 GB, but I don’t know.

> And if i got your points right, then i should not change this in this
> case. I should simply split the non-sdd hd with some windows tool (maybe
> split about 340-400gb away from it), create a new partition and put the
> whole opensuse on it? This should work right? Is there a free windows
> partitioner you can suggest?

A Linux forum is probably not the best place to ask is there a free windows partitioner'. The one that comes with Windows 7 (if that's what you mean by free) is DISKPART. But unless you already know the difference the between primary and logical partitions, MBR and boot partitions, ntfs and ext4, and active flags and chainloaders, then I suggest to use the time before you actually obtain the laptop to research them. Partitioning is _much_ more than just about having to simply split’ a drive. And if you do something wrong, you’ll probably have an unbootable computer.

12

On 2013-07-10 17:56, flymail wrote:
> In which case if you want to preserve Windows 7, then you will have to come back to us to let us know the partition
> arrangement once you have it. I would be very surprised if Windows 7 fitted onto 20 GB, but I don’t know.

If they do the trick I mentioned, it doesn’t matter.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

13

Here is likely the info you’ll need and want… repeating a few things others have already posted…

First, 20GB is not likely harge enough. In the short run, you’ll get your OS installed on it, but when you start installing apps, libraries and the apps themselves will fill 20GB in no time. So, as others have suggested, get a bigger drive, IMO 64GB should be a minimum. Today, the “sweet spot” likely is 128GB where you get the most value, any larger or smaller and you are paying more per megabyte.

And, you <will> want to install your root partition (/) on your SSD, it’s what will benefit most from the characteristics of SSD (Blindingly fast read, possibly slower writes compared to HDD).

If you do decide to stick with your 20GB SSD, it is so tiny you should not even consider placing anything but your root (/) partition on it. Place your swap partition on the HDD with your /home partition.

In fact, considering that the openSUSE default layout installs 3 partitions

/ root. Includes misc everything your system needs which is generally all mount points that’s not in RAM, the swap partition and your /home (data) partitions.
/swp The swap partition. My guess is that regardless of available memory the openSUSE Install will likely recommend 2GB.
/home The partition where the User home directories and personal data is located.

So, during the openSUSE Install I would accept the suggested partition layout as <a starting point> which I would guess typically tries to install the root and swap partitions on the first disk (SSD) and the /home on the second disk (HDD) and <edit> the layout to move the /swp partition to the HDD.

So much for the partition layout… now, for SSD optimization…
Last year I presented and posted the slide deck for that presentation on installing on SSD (more specifically an SSD/HDD combination like what you have).
https://sites.google.com/site/4techsecrets/slide-presentations-30min

I hightly recommend you follow the steps outlined in the slide deck which describes the hardware setup and the thoughts behind certain choices. There are other optimizations that can be done but any additional have incremental and questionable value… Just the optimizations in the slide deck will optimize your system excellently.

A few optimizations in the slide deck

  • Enable TRIM
  • Disable ext4 date/time writes
  • Modify I/O from the default that accounts for rotational disk geometry to the “flat” geometry of solid state.

HTH,
TSU

14

Actually,
As long as the Windows partition is a “Basic Disk” and not “Dynamic Disk” then any partitioner including Linux types will work fine.

But, generally the only time you’ll see a “Dynamic Disk” is when the system is setup in a special way, eg software RAID and I wouldn’t expect that on an OEM install.

Diskpart is the MS command line utility, but is no better (maybe vastly discouraged) compared to using the GUI Disk utiliy in Windows (Vista SP2 and later).

TSU

15

On 2013-07-10, tsu2 <tsu2@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> Diskpart is the MS command line utility, but is no better (maybe vastly
> discouraged) compared to using the GUI Disk utiliy in Windows (Vista SP2
> and later).

I strongly disagree and have used both extensively fixing various Windows machine. For example the GUI Disk Management
utility that comes with Windows Vista/7 cannot even create a extended partition. Or are you referring to different GUI
application?

16

Just passing on the results of a recent Windows Admin mail list thread I subscribe to which was supported by several MS online documentation.
I can’t remember for sure, but seems to me I <did> create an Extended Partition on a Win7 sometime… but my recollection could be faulty.

Are you <sure> your Win7 disks are “Basic” Disks and not “Dynamic” Disks (you can’t perform many disk operations on one type of disk vs the other). And, the underlying disk configuration may also affect options.

If you really believe this is the case, then the next time I’m in a Win7 or Win8 I’ll take a closer look at the GUI disk utility.

TSU

17

I decided to apply about 20 min tonight to verify the standard Win Disk Manager supports creating and managing Extended Partitions.

First, I did a quick search. The following applies to Win2K8 Server, but applies equally well to Win7 and Win8 VMs I had already built, I simply added a newly created, unpartitioned diskfile as a second drive. The experience should be equal to Win7 and running on real metal.
Use Built-In Tools to Create Partitions and Volumes in Windows Server

The following verifies support
Open Disk Manager
The 8GB “disk” is found and am prompted to write a disk ID which is normal for any disk never before used in a Windows system.
Create a 1500MB Simple Volume, no format needed but assigned a drive letter.
Create a second 1500MB Simple Volume as above.
Create a third 1500MB Simple Volume as above.
Now, create a fourth Simple Volume with drive letter but only 1000MB.
View the results and note how a Logical Drive within an Extended Partition has been created.
Create another Simple Volume(the fifth on the drive which verifies moving past the 4 Primary Partition limit) with the remaining space.
The fifth volume has been created as a Logical Drive within the Extended Partition.

HTH,
TSU

18

On 2013-07-13, tsu2 <tsu2@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> The following verifies support
> Open Disk Manager
> The 8GB “disk” is found and am prompted to write a disk ID which is
> normal for any disk never before used in a Windows system.
> Create a 1500MB Simple Volume, no format needed but assigned a drive
> letter.
> Create a second 1500MB Simple Volume as above.
> Create a third 1500MB Simple Volume as above.
> Now, create a fourth Simple Volume with drive letter but only 1000MB.
> View the results and note how a Logical Drive within an Extended
> Partition has been created.
> Create another Simple Volume(the fifth on the drive which verifies
> moving past the 4 Primary Partition limit) with the remaining space.
> The fifth volume has been created as a Logical Drive within the
> Extended Partition.
>
> HTH,
> TSU

Since this is not a Linux issue, I’m don’t feel any strong urge to defend either application. However, as your
demonstration has showed, there is not way the GUI Disk Management software gives the user any control over the
partition type of any `Volume’. Contrast this to DISKPART’s method…


create partition primary size = 1000
create partition extended size = 1000
create partition logical size = 1000

… and decide which version you’d prefer.

19

On 2013-07-13 03:26, tsu2 wrote:

> Just passing on the results of a recent Windows Admin mail list thread
> I subscribe to which was supported by several MS online documentation.
> I can’t remember for sure, but seems to me I <did> create an Extended
> Partition on a Win7 sometime… but my recollection could be faulty.

I have, most certainly, created extended partitions in Windows 7. What I
don’t remember is what software I used.

… testing]

There is a graphical disk administrator, and it displays primary,
extended, and logical in different colours. It also displays several
volume types, and raid 5.

I can not try creating partitions because I have no free space. I could
add a disk if needed for testing if there is enough interest (it a
virtual installation for tests).

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

20

On 2013-07-13 13:16, flymail wrote:
> … and decide which version you’d prefer.

GUI :stuck_out_tongue:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)