On 01/28/2011 11:36 AM, oldcpu wrote:
>
> eng-int;2283348 Wrote:
>> I got the i586 DVD iso from gwdg.de yesterday morning, burnt and used
>> the DVD to update a netbook before posting.
>
> chucktr;2283384 Wrote:
>> Well, I brought down
>> openSUSE-DVD-Build1034-i586.iso — 4.4GB
>> and managed to create an installation DVD.
>
> I’ve just finished burning the openSUSE-DVD-Build1034-i586.iso to a
> normal DVD +R also. It fit no problem.
>
> It makes me think the 11.4 Milestone6 DVD ISO’s that are too large are
> the 64-bit and NOT the 32-bit. I plan to install from this 32-bit
> openSUSE-11.4 M6 DVD later tonight or tomorrow.
That is correct. It will be fixed before RC1. In fact, a test for improper sizes
has been added to the QA testing that Bernhard Wiedemann does and reports at http://openqa.opensuse.org/.
> On Thursday 27 Jan 2011 23:36, Romanator scribbled:
>
>> Can the master’s be redone at 4.4 GB. As long as we can record them
>> on 4.7 GB DVD, we would be very grateful.
>
> Also helpful would be for K3b to make some sensible comment instead of
> the immensely irritating “please insert an empty DVD . . .”
>
> As I’ve done in the past when K3b has been playing silly beggars, I
> installed Brasero and got a useful error message.
>
Did the same thing yesterday. K3B had no comment, just didn’t see DVD
according to greyed out parts of GUI. Brasero told me the iso was to big
to fit. I may try dual layer this afternoon.
I use both the X64 DVD and live KDE media when testing a milestone or RC, as there are x64 portable computers without installed DVD drives (they have external drives - however, due to the nature of the beast, they may not always take DVD media). If doing a clean (as opposed to upgrade) install, why wouldn’t you want to use live media?
However, thanks to this bug I will not be testing the M6 DVD image as it stands; however, I can still test the M6 live KDE image.
It is far more easier and less wasting time to download a full DVD version during the night (slow connection) as to do a Live Installation with user intervention. You sometimes don’t see screen updates and then you wonder if the connection was dropped :\
I have friends that I share the DVD’s with and I don’t know anyone having a Dual Layer DVD-Writer and Media
The best - “It will be fixed before RC1. In fact, a test for improper sizes
has been added to the QA testing lol! that Bernhard Wiedemann does and reports at http://openqa.opensuse.org/.”
With all respects “oldcpu”, I consider myself as a Newbie as I can’t do all the CLI scripts but do contribute making SUSE better. I log the "errors to bug’. Why should I not try Milestone 6? Are more things broken inside that was working in Milestone5 (worked much faster due to 200line kernel code).
Sometimes one must stop defending and be realistic about the system - we are expecting some quality in Milestone 6
Share some of the other reason why SUSE is dropping on “distrowatch” as knowing them will be helpful.
New users CAN test a milestone release if they want, but with all due respect back, such users need to know their limitations and when they are trying software that has NOT been released, to which there are MANY warnings, they should know this in advance. How they (the new users struggle) IS tied in to their experience level, ESPECIALLY in a milestone release.
These releases ARE called milestone (and not release candidate) for a reason.
Note the 32-bit openSUSE-11.4 M6 DVD works. I’ve installed 11.4 M6 (32-bit) LXDE on 2 separate (with completely different hardware) PCs.
The 32-bit and 64-bit openSUSE openSUSE-11.4 M6 KDE liveCDs work. I’ve booted PC’s to those.
So lets focus on what we are talking about, … a new user who is struggling with a SuSE-GmbH bug in ONE of different media (which SuSE-GmbH acknowledged and also noted note they WILL fix soon) on a 64-bit openSUSE-11.4 miletone-6 DVD. Not a Release Candidate. No, just one media (64-bit DVD) out of a number of different CD/DVDs . … Plus I have read 2 separate accounts indicating this ONE media - ie the 64-bit DVD (out of a number of different media) works with a doublelayer DVD.
I think global statements inferring this is the reason openSUSE is dropping in an unrealistic (and not representative) survey such as DistroWatch is simply not correct. That is my opinion. I stated it tactfully as I could. No insults inferred nor intended. Hopefully any discussion on this can continue in a decent manner.
But clearly I do not agree with your judgment on this.
I have thus tested 11.4 M6 on 3 separate PCs. I plan to do the same on 4 more PCs this weekend. My ‘prediction’ wrt the 7 PCs I will by then have tried this on, is only my Linux Killer (a Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo 7400M with i855GM graphics) will cause major problems with this milestone.
[QUOTE
But clearly I do not agree with your judgment on this.
[/QUOTE]
100%, we disagree, let us not waste our time on the matter. I did not judge or demand - I was just expecting the quality that I am used to getting from SUSE. I went to “opensuse.org” clicked on “get it” clicked on “switch to Development Version” , clicked on “64-bit PC” and Download (and it did / very friendly and easy). It would have being great if there was a Note: “Does not Fit on DVD”. I only discovered this the next morning when trying to Burn (then started to …)
You rightly shared - I will skip this one - not going to waste more time on negativity and certainly it looks like “openSUSE” does not want my feedback on M6 (lucky they already got this message causing the disappointment).
I would not say that. I would say that users who want to help (and their help is WANTED) should first ask as to WHERE the feedback should be sent and not assume.
Also, rather I would say your observation was already noted. It is in the ‘most annoy bugs’ page for openSUSE milestones where ALL users who test openSUSE milestones really SHOULD look. SuSE-GmbH have acknowledged this AND they have noted they will fix it.
Further to that, openSUSE forum is a support forum where we have added this pre-release/beta area where users who install milestone releases can exchange information. But this is NOT the official place to raise observations, but rather the official place for bug reports is in BUG REPORTS and in the FACTORY MAILING LIST. Hence to say openSUSE does not want your feedback based on this thread indicates a lack of understanding of the openSUSE communications channels,… and IMHO an understanding of these channels is something EVERYONE who tests a milestone release really SHOULD understand.
Best wishes, and glad to read you came up with a method that works for you.
We are a volunteer support forum. We DO try to add venues for members to exchange information. But we are NOT are a replacement for EXISTING communication channels, nor are we an extra official communication channel. We are a VOLUNTEER support forum. I hope that is more clear now.
I’ve seen Yes throughout the '70s. Fantastic!!
I’ve downloaded the deltaiso and will apply it to create a new iso. However, I think that the final iso will still be too big. I don’t have any double-sided DVDs.
I’ll be best off installing it on VirtualBox 4.02. The RC1 should be released in a couple of weeks.
Here lies, in red, the cause of disappointment. Inappropriate expectations for a development project and a work in progress. I bet you are not as disappointed as the project manager, who has lost potential bug reports. I understand your frustration, and had it been RC I would probably share your “disappointment”. However for a development milestone, you may as well find a way round it with other alternatives or await the RC.
I just opened the .iso using isomaster. Removed the mono **** and some languages and saved the resulting .iso. Now its 4.6 something GB and k3b burned it just fine.
I don’t think that we should be feel so disappointed just because the images were oversized.
We have added an image size checker to our Automatic QA Checker so that it won’t happen again.
I would certainly feel disappointed if new users had not become testers. And if they haven’t joined Bugzilla in submitting bugs, over cites & wishes.
And NOT logging on to openFATE. If you have ideas on improving openSUSE. Let’s hear them! Submit and post them with openFATE.
Remember to join openSUSE. Get involved and have fun!
They KEEP REMOVING a clarification that I make that the 11.4 Milestone-6 WILL burn to a double layer DVD as a “work around”.
Their reason: (It does not help to burn the bad software on double layer)
Well gosh, … it does not help to use a NET.ISO by that logic !!! Yet why is that comment still there ? I’ll say why it is there. It is there so users know there IS a way to install desktops that one can NOT install from the liveCDs (such as Xfce and LXDE). Why should one HAVE to use NET.ISO when one can use the DVD for testing.
A work around is a work around is a work around is a work around. Why allow a .NET ISO work around and NOT a double layer. This IS NOT INTENDED to be the final solution. And hence valuable information is not passed to the test team. Users who could test with a double layer DVD will now NEVER know thanks to the edits. The edits have JUST cut out part of the test team.
Yet others have successfully installed from the double layer DVD. So IMHO there is more to this, and the chance to get user feedback as to why the DVD implementation fails for you is lost, … and you may now encounter the same problem in RC1 with a DVD that fits. We lost one entire release cycle of testing because of this.
… anyway, I edited my post/rant as it was not forum rule compliant.
I can only guess it’s for the perceived reason that the net.iso method doesn’t produce a persistent record of the so called “bad software” version, whereas the DL DVD does.
In other words, it’s a fear of proliferating the bad DVD image, and wasting DL DVD. That seems a rather pedantic form of “motherhood” for a milestone release.
I agree with that, but still think it the wrong decision to edit out the ‘temporary’ work around of burning to a double layer.
Valuable information can be gained from users testing with a double layer DVD install version that has now been lost. End result ? An increased risk that RC1 will be worse than it should be. If a double layer DVD can still be used to test some DVD aspects (as it DOES work for some users despite brucecadieux’s unfortunate experiences) then the risk is reduced for RC1. As it stands now, I would not be surprised that the problem brucecadieux encountered could happen again in RC1 with a DVD that actually fits (assuming that brucecadieux’s failure was not an inability to burn a doublelayer DVD - which is separate from 11.4 M6 testing).
The DVD image problem may have compromised overall M6 testing, feedback, and potential bug reporting. That could lead to an extended RC phase, correct me if I’m wrong, but RC2 etc are not usually distributed beyond the devs.
Typically in the past only RC1 was available to the public, and RC2 was not (available). Having typed that, I vaguely recall that recently in a recent release (either 11.2 or 11.3) that RC2 was made available. So I do not know the plan.
Reference the wiki edit that triggered my RANT, I do note in a previous openSUSE release (I think it was 11.2) that the purchased industrial quality double layer DVD that I obtained had a problem. … in the same (albeit different) vein, IMHO we should not discard the possibility of testing a double layer DVD for 64-bit, even IF one or two users can not get it to work, IF other users can get it to work. Potentially by NOT telling users that a double layer is a temporary working around we are depriving our openSUSE project of information that “might” be valuable.
What I see is a user frustrated by the 64-bit DVD not burning to a single layer, overstating the problem and refusing to state all the possible work arounds. And that really annoys me.
But the bottom line: While frustrated that the wiki edit was made, I believe to the detriment of openSUSE, I am not going to purse this further, as there are more important things in life - and MY testing openSUSE to help the project is NOT so important.
After a little checking. It is openSUSE 11.3 that had an RC2 “Build 694” for us to review last year.
I would feel much better if the project team pushed back the release of openSUSE 11.4. Personally, I would like an additional RC ( RC3 ?), due to the 64-bit DVD oversize blunder.
