non-existent new messa

English Forums Feedback
1

Using the new server, if I sit on this forum -
opensuse.org.feedback.forums.comments-suggestions - and click Get Mail,
it claims there are 16 unread messages. If I then go to another forum
and return to this one, the 16 unread messages goes away. Repeat ad nauseam.

The same thing happens with
opensuse.org.feedback.forums.support-information where there are 4
ghostly new mesages. On opensuse.org.news.announcements there are 29 and
on opensuse.org.help.programming-scripting there are 419!

All the other opensuse forums I’m subscribed to work normally.

Does anybody have any idea of what is going on and how to fix it? What
has changed?

Oh, I should mention that in opensuse.org.news.announcements the latest
two messages are marked as No Such Article (from golson765 and Carlos E.
R.) and if I try to access any message before my post at 2013-03-15
11:17 it fails to retrieve the content. Other forums mostly appear to
work normally but there are some problems with older messages in some of
the forums.

Ah, I’ve just had a timeout message that says “The operation timed out
when attempting to contact forums.opensuse.org.” Now my system is set
up to use nntp.opensuse.org, but is there some override info in old
messages and/or migration going on behind the scenes, perhaps?

2

On 2013-04-04 11:34, Dave Howorth wrote:
> Using the new server, if I sit on this forum -
> opensuse.org.feedback.forums.comments-suggestions - and click Get Mail,
> it claims there are 16 unread messages. If I then go to another forum
> and return to this one, the 16 unread messages goes away. Repeat ad nauseam.

Are you really using “Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20060911)”? That’s way
obsolete, I’d be not surprised that you have problems because of that.

I’m looking at that same forum with “pan”, and if tell it to fetch the
last 60 days headers, it apparently says that there are 65 posts. If I
do a re-fetch, telling it to get the last 120 days headers, I see 157 posts.

If switch to another group, then back, it shrinks to 89. This could be
because there is an expiry setting, but I don’t know where - I’m not
familiar with ‘pan’ - ah, yes, the news server has a setting to expire
articles after 3 months.

I’m using ‘pan’ for this test because my Thunderbird is configured to
fetch instead from my local news mirror server with leafnode, but ‘pan’
I have configured to fetch directly upstream.

My Thunderbird is configured to not download for offline use anything (I
have local storage via leafnode), to don’t delete any message (it is
leafnode which will be doing the expiring), to always keep starred
messages, and to remove bodies from messages more than one day old
(because they are locally stored in leafnode, no need to duplicate
storage). This is all under the “Synchronization and storage settings”
of the account.

Your settings will have to be different.

> Oh, I should mention that in opensuse.org.news.announcements the latest
> two messages are marked as No Such Article (from golson765 and Carlos E.
> R.) and if I try to access any message before my post at 2013-03-15
> 11:17 it fails to retrieve the content.

I have no problems with any of those posts, with pan.

Correction, I can not see the message by golson. However, I can read it
in thunderbird from my leafnode local storage. I see several messages
from mine, if you say the date and hour I can check that one that you
says it fails.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

3

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Are you really using “Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20060911)”?

Yup, what can I say. It just works.

I’d believe the problem might be my end if all the forums behaved the
same. But they don’t. So I’m pretty convinced that at least some of the
problem is at the opensuse.org end.

> I’m looking at that same forum with “pan”

I don’t know anything about pan so I don’t know what you’re trying to
tell me.

> Correction, I can not see the message by golson. However, I can read it
> in thunderbird from my leafnode local storage. I see several messages
> from mine, if you say the date and hour I can check that one that you
> says it fails.

<mld72a-nao.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> 2013-03-26 02:28

4

On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 09:34:08 +0000, Dave Howorth wrote:

> Does anybody have any idea of what is going on and how to fix it? What
> has changed?

Nothing has changed - the “new” server is the “old” server with a new DNS
name. The message bases are the same, the message counters are the same,
the message IDs are the same - it’s all the same.

Usually something like this happening is a newsrc file (if that’s what
Thunderbird uses to track read messages) has an incorrect message pointer
in it. I see that from time to time in my own reader across multiple
servers and groups.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

5

On 2013-04-04 15:29, Dave Howorth wrote:

> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Are you really using “Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20060911)”?
>
> Yup, what can I say. It just works.
>
> I’d believe the problem might be my end if all the forums behaved the
> same. But they don’t. So I’m pretty convinced that at least some of the
> problem is at the opensuse.org end.

But your version is sure to have bugs that have been solved on later
versions.

>> I’m looking at that same forum with “pan”
>
> I don’t know anything about pan so I don’t know what you’re trying to
> tell me.

Well, install it and compare, from your end. It is just another “nntp”
reader.

>> Correction, I can not see the message by golson. However, I can read it
>> in thunderbird from my leafnode local storage. I see several messages
>> from mine, if you say the date and hour I can check that one that you
>> says it fails.
>
> <mld72a-nao.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> 2013-03-26 02:28

I can see it in my local storage. But I can not see it with pan
connected directly to the server, so indeed there is a server problem.

Jim, this post that I sent, of which I have a local cached copy, can not
be downloaded with pan from the current server, even forcing a full
refresh. So there is a server problem, or it has been deleted.


> Path: kozak.provo.novell.com!kortar.provo.novell.com!kozak.provo.novell.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
> Message-ID: <mld72a-nao.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
> From: "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org>
> Newsgroups: opensuse.org.news.announcements
> Subject: Re: IMPORTANT:  NNTP server changes
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:28:07 GMT
> References: <kgroneman.5s7no0@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> <g491t.1095$6y2.852@kovat.provo.novell.com> <k5b1t.392$Jt3.352@kozak.provo.novell.com> <Qkb1t.394$Jt3.45@kozak.provo.novell.com> <ht1h1a-oc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <vbv1t.404$Jt3.106@kozak.provo.novell.com> <MargueriteSu.5sdx4q@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> <BOG1t.421$Jt3.200@kozak.provo.novell.com> <Wu74t.771$Jt3.735@kozak.provo.novell.com>
> Lines: 15
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> In-Reply-To: <Wu74t.771$Jt3.735@kozak.provo.novell.com>
> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6a1pre
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.65.224.2
> X-Trace: kozak.provo.novell.com 1364264887 137.65.224.2 (Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:28:07 MDT)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:28:07 MDT
> Xref: Telcontar.valinor opensuse.org.news.announcements:1926
>
> On 2013-03-26 03:13, golson765 wrote:
>> This is a test post. Just about 30 seconds ago I changed to
>> nntp.opensuse.org, and it looked like everything was going to work fine
>> right away.
>
> Please, don't.
>
> There is a dedicated NNTP test thread in chit-chat, it is called "NNTP
> Test Thread - Take II". Use it for testing NNTP, not here.
>
> --
> Cheers / Saludos,
>
> 		Carlos E. R.
> 		(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

This other post is missing too:


> Path: kovat.provo.novell.com!kortar.provo.novell.com!kozak.provo.novell.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
> Message-ID: <Wu74t.771$Jt3.735@kozak.provo.novell.com>
> From: golson765 <golson765@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org>
> Newsgroups: opensuse.org.news.announcements
> Subject: Re: IMPORTANT:  NNTP server changes
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:13:10 GMT
> References: <kgroneman.5s7no0@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> <g491t.1095$6y2.852@kovat.provo.novell.com> <k5b1t.392$Jt3.352@kozak.provo.novell.com> <Qkb1t.394$Jt3.45@kozak.provo.novell.com> <ht1h1a-oc.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <vbv1t.404$Jt3.106@kozak.provo.novell.com> <MargueriteSu.5sdx4q@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> <BOG1t.421$Jt3.200@kozak.provo.novell.com>
> Lines: 28
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> In-Reply-To: <BOG1t.421$Jt3.200@kozak.provo.novell.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.65.224.2
> X-Trace: kozak.provo.novell.com 1364263990 137.65.224.2 (Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:13:10 MDT)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:13:10 MDT
> Xref: Telcontar.valinor opensuse.org.news.announcements:1925
>
> On 03/18/2013 11:56 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 06:16:01 +0000, MargueriteSu wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Do I need to?
>>>
>>> Last night I login nntp, I only saw en/de/ru forums are available
>>> through nntp.
>> It's the same server, so just changing the address should be sufficient.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
> This is a test post. Just about 30 seconds ago I changed to
> nntp.opensuse.org, and it looked like everything was going to work fine
> right away.
>
> I am using Thunderbird 17.0.4 on openSUSE 12.3.
>
> --
> G.O.
> Box #1: 12.3 | KDE 4.10 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB
> Box #2: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.2 | AMD Athlon X3   | 64 | 4GB
> Laptop: 12.2 | KDE 4.10 | Core i7-2620M   | 64 | 8GB
> learning openSUSE and loving it

My post is an answer to golson765 post, they are threaded one after the
other, below one of yours:


Message-ID: <BOG1t.421$Jt3.200@kozak.provo.novell.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:56:17 GMT

web side:
#11
> <https://forums.opensuse.org/english/other-forums/news-announcements/announcements/484299-important-nntp-server-changes-2.html#post2537433>

Both posts are also missing on the web side. Thus they have been indeed
either intentionally deleted or moved, silently… why and where to?, or
there has been an accident or software failure? They are not in
chit-chat, I looked.

What is happening? :expressionless:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

6

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 01:50:12 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Both posts are also missing on the web side.

If they’re missing on the web side, that means they were deleted.

Moves don’t affect the NNTP side of the world, because NNTP doesn’t have
the concept of moving messages from one group to another.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

7

On 2013-04-05 06:56, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 01:50:12 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Both posts are also missing on the web side.
>
> If they’re missing on the web side, that means they were deleted.

Why? :open_mouth:
Why were they deleted?

I expect that if I post something, it gets posted, not deleted by
someone without even telling me, what rule I broke. :-/

> Moves don’t affect the NNTP side of the world, because NNTP doesn’t have
> the concept of moving messages from one group to another.

They are also missing on the nntp side.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

8

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 07:28:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2013-04-05 06:56, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 01:50:12 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> Both posts are also missing on the web side.
>>
>> If they’re missing on the web side, that means they were deleted.
>
> Why? :open_mouth: Why were they deleted?
>
> I expect that if I post something, it gets posted, not deleted by
> someone without even telling me, what rule I broke. :-/

At a guess, because the message you replied to was deleted, and that one
would’ve been deleted because it was a test message not in the test
thread.

We don’t generally announce that we’ve deleted posts. We never have, and
we’re not likely to start now.

>> Moves don’t affect the NNTP side of the world, because NNTP doesn’t
>> have the concept of moving messages from one group to another.
>
> They are also missing on the nntp side.

Which is why I’m pretty sure they were deleted.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

9

On 2013-04-05 18:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 07:28:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> Why? :open_mouth: Why were they deleted?
>>
>> I expect that if I post something, it gets posted, not deleted by
>> someone without even telling me, what rule I broke. :-/
>
> At a guess, because the message you replied to was deleted, and that one
> would’ve been deleted because it was a test message not in the test
> thread.
>
> We don’t generally announce that we’ve deleted posts. We never have, and
> we’re not likely to start now.

It is not fair. Not even polite. :-/

Now I will have to start checking, when I don’t get an answer to a post
of mine, if it has been deleted :frowning:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

10

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:13:17 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2013-04-05 18:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 07:28:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>>> Why? :open_mouth: Why were they deleted?
>>>
>>> I expect that if I post something, it gets posted, not deleted by
>>> someone without even telling me, what rule I broke. :-/
>>
>> At a guess, because the message you replied to was deleted, and that
>> one would’ve been deleted because it was a test message not in the test
>> thread.
>>
>> We don’t generally announce that we’ve deleted posts. We never have,
>> and we’re not likely to start now.
>
> It is not fair. Not even polite. :-/

Seriously? You want us to post notifications for all deleted posts?
Sorry, that’s just not going to happen.

“The parent post to this post has been deleted because it was determined
to be spam”.

“The parent post to this post has been deleted because it contained an
inappropriate personal attack.”

No…just, no.

> Now I will have to start checking, when I don’t get an answer to a post
> of mine, if it has been deleted :frowning:

If you didn’t cache locally, you wouldn’t have that problem. Connecting
your client directly to the news server (or using the web interface, for
that matter), if you try to open an uncached message, it’s abundantly
clear that it’s no longer on the server.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

11

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:13:17 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> It is not fair. Not even polite. :-/

It’s not reasonable to expect us to post something saying “we deleted
this post” to every post that’s deleted. You really want us to increase
the amount of useless posts in the forum by saying something like “the
parent to this post was deleted because it was spam”, or “the parent to
this post was deleted becasuse of [insert reason here]” every time we
delete a post?

Sorry, that’s not going to happen. You correctly pointed out to the user
that there is a test thread; someone on staff opted to delete the test
post and the reply (as is our usual standard - when we delete a spam post
that you’ve helpfully replied to, we also delete your helpful reply - and
we’re not going to tell you that, either. The point if the deletion is
to get rid of unnecessary posts, not to generate more work for staff and
additional replies that are essentially content-free as regards openSUSE.)

> Now I will have to start checking, when I don’t get an answer to a post
> of mine, if it has been deleted :frowning:

We control our servers. We don’t control yours. To my knowledge, you’re
the only user who has decided to use leafnode to create copies of the
content on our server. We don’t officially support feeds to third party
servers, as explained in the FAQ.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

12

On 2013-04-05 22:20, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:13:17 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> It is not fair. Not even polite. :-/
>
> It’s not reasonable to expect us to post something saying “we deleted
> this post” to every post that’s deleted. You really want us to increase
> the amount of useless posts in the forum by saying something like “the
> parent to this post was deleted because it was spam”, or “the parent to
> this post was deleted becasuse of [insert reason here]” every time we
> delete a post?
>
> Sorry, that’s not going to happen. You correctly pointed out to the user
> that there is a test thread; someone on staff opted to delete the test
> post and the reply (as is our usual standard - when we delete a spam post
> that you’ve helpfully replied to, we also delete your helpful reply - and
> we’re not going to tell you that, either. The point if the deletion is
> to get rid of unnecessary posts, not to generate more work for staff and
> additional replies that are essentially content-free as regards openSUSE.)

It would be the polite thing to do, to send a PM or at least an
automated email.

>> Now I will have to start checking, when I don’t get an answer to a post
>> of mine, if it has been deleted :frowning:
>
> We control our servers. We don’t control yours. To my knowledge, you’re
> the only user who has decided to use leafnode to create copies of the
> content on our server. We don’t officially support feeds to third party
> servers, as explained in the FAQ.

It was another user who noticed the problem, without using leafnode, but
thunderbird.

The issue is not that I use leafnode. The issue is that posts are
deleted without notice, for whatever reason. Of course I understand that
spam posts be silently deleted and the user banned. But if it is not
spam I would appreciate the courtesy of been told.

And these posts were not spam, but posts on the wrong group: you usually
move them to the correct place.

I also understand that you are the boss and you decide and I can not
complain about it.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

13

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 21:33:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> It would be the polite thing to do, to send a PM or at least an
> automated email.

Yes, and then spammers will want to be notified when their messages are
deleted. Where exactly does this insanity end? Notifying users who have
left? How long before we get complaints from people who DON’T want to be
notified when moderators do, you know, moderating?

The rule of thumb is this: If a message is deleted, chances are the
child messages will be as well, especially if they quote the parent or if
they are out of place without the context of the parent message.

>> We control our servers. We don’t control yours. To my knowledge,
>> you’re the only user who has decided to use leafnode to create copies
>> of the content on our server. We don’t officially support feeds to
>> third party servers, as explained in the FAQ.
>
> It was another user who noticed the problem, without using leafnode, but
> thunderbird.

And re-retrieving the message from the group shows that it’s not there.
Again, we can’t control the caching mechanisms.

> The issue is not that I use leafnode. The issue is that posts are
> deleted without notice, for whatever reason. Of course I understand that
> spam posts be silently deleted and the user banned. But if it is not
> spam I would appreciate the courtesy of been told.
>
> And these posts were not spam, but posts on the wrong group: you usually
> move them to the correct place.

They were test messages, Carlos. Test messages don’t get moved. There’s
no reason to move them.

I honestly cannot believe this is a point of contention for you.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

14

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 21:33:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> It was another user who noticed the problem, without using leafnode, but
> thunderbird.

And no, Dave did not notice this particular message was missing. He
noticed a problem that was related to Thunderbird’s implementation of the
high message counter.

Don’t try to conflate these two issues - they are in fact separate and
distinctly different.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

15

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 21:33:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> It was another user who noticed the problem, without using leafnode, but
>> thunderbird.
>
> And no, Dave did not notice this particular message was missing.

Agreed. At least, I did notice it was missing but that wasn’t my issue.

> He noticed a problem that was related to Thunderbird’s implementation of the
> high message counter.

I did? I must have missed a post somewhere, because I’m not aware of
that. As far as I’m concerned, I still have an unsolved problem that is
an irritation.

> Don’t try to conflate these two issues - they are in fact separate and
> distinctly different.
>
> Jim

16

On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 09:42:23 +0000, Dave Howorth wrote:

>> He noticed a problem that was related to Thunderbird’s implementation
>> of the high message counter.
>
> I did? I must have missed a post somewhere, because I’m not aware of
> that. As far as I’m concerned, I still have an unsolved problem that is
> an irritation.

Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer - often times what I see happen
is that a high message pointer in a client (I see this in pan as well,
BTW, on occasion) gets corrupted somehow, and reports message counts
there that are incorrect, and that results in the appearance of messages
that are there that aren’t.

I’ve heard of this happening in Thunderbird as well, and that’s my best
guess as to what’s happening for you at the moment. You can try editing
the newsrc file (IIRC, Thunderbird does use that) and reset the high
message counter manually, restart thunderbird, and it should be OK.

There are other things that can make this appear to happen, but I don’t
recall if Thunderbird has a facility to hide messages based on various
user-defined criteria. That also can make it look like new messages are
there when you can’t see them (but in that case, they actually are and
you can’t see them because of the rules defined - but again that may vary
depending on newsreader).

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

17

Jim Henderson wrote:
> Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer - often times what I see happen
> is that a high message pointer in a client (I see this in pan as well,
> BTW, on occasion) gets corrupted somehow, and reports message counts
> there that are incorrect, and that results in the appearance of messages
> that are there that aren’t.
>
> I’ve heard of this happening in Thunderbird as well, and that’s my best
> guess as to what’s happening for you at the moment. You can try editing
> the newsrc file (IIRC, Thunderbird does use that) and reset the high
> message counter manually, restart thunderbird, and it should be OK.

Ah-ha! Wonderful. Thanks for that tip. When I look in the newsrc file, I
see that most forums have lines like

opensuse.org.help.looking-for: 1-7824

But the ones with the problem are different; they look like:

opensuse.org.feedback.forums.support-information:
1-1390,1392-1602,1604-1623,1626-2012

And there are 4 rogue messages in that forum. Editing the file to just
say 1-2012 seems to fix my problem.

Thanks very much, Jim. :slight_smile:

18

On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 16:15:22 +0000, Dave Howorth wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer - often times what I see happen
>> is that a high message pointer in a client (I see this in pan as well,
>> BTW, on occasion) gets corrupted somehow, and reports message counts
>> there that are incorrect, and that results in the appearance of
>> messages that are there that aren’t.
>>
>> I’ve heard of this happening in Thunderbird as well, and that’s my best
>> guess as to what’s happening for you at the moment. You can try
>> editing the newsrc file (IIRC, Thunderbird does use that) and reset the
>> high message counter manually, restart thunderbird, and it should be
>> OK.
>
> Ah-ha! Wonderful. Thanks for that tip. When I look in the newsrc file, I
> see that most forums have lines like
>
> opensuse.org.help.looking-for: 1-7824
>
> But the ones with the problem are different; they look like:
>
> opensuse.org.feedback.forums.support-information:
> 1-1390,1392-1602,1604-1623,1626-2012
>
> And there are 4 rogue messages in that forum. Editing the file to just
> say 1-2012 seems to fix my problem.
>
> Thanks very much, Jim. :slight_smile:

Glad to help out. :slight_smile:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C