On 06/22/2013 07:13 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> but freaking out (even in a small way)
the only one who freaked out was the one who instead of saying “We
have no idea when it might be fixed” said to take control and/or make
a donation.
–
dd
On 2013-06-22 19:13, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 03:03:08 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> It is not a question of trust. I trust you. But the best manner to avoid
>> rumors and impatience is to keep people informed of what happens - even
>> if its “I don’t know myself”, and later “I still don’t know” if there is
>> nothing new to say. It really helps. Believe me 
>
> Of course, but freaking out (even in a small way) when there isn’t any
> information makes one assume that your assumption is that we know
> something and just don’t feel like telling you.
Freaking is an exaggeration, at least for me.
> Given how enthusiastic our NNTP users are, it’s safe to assume that if we
> had information to share, we would.
Yes, yes, but a little more communication would have been very
appreciated. I know that the people working on this would be pressed for
time and stressed. However, IMVHO, just telling somebody to tell people
something should have been done better. I have been the technician
repairing equipment with a howling crowd waiting and banging their feet
(literally), and I know how it feels. I would have appreciated myself a
spoke person on my behalf. I had to address that crowd once or twice.
(I knew that it was more than the opensuse forum side. That is, I guessed)
>>> I know that there are users who get cranky when they can’t get their
>>> forums fix (heck, I’m one of those users ), and we are /not/ amused
>>> when there’s an outage.
>>
>> No, I can live without caffeine (that’s a lie), but not knowing what is
>> going on is nervy. You can’t plan.
>
> I find it easy to plan, actually. My plan is this: Wait until there is
> additional information or the system is available again. Do something
> else (during the outage, I managed to actually get a fair bit of paid
> writing done = win for me. 
)
Heh.
I did plan.
Badly.
I did some carpentry. But I estimated the downtime would be way longer,
and now my ledges are unfinished. Why did you put the forum back so
soon? I haven’t finished my carpentry yet!
>:-PP
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
There was nobody but you that decided that adding to this conversation was more needed then finishing your carpentry.
On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 17:43:25 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Freaking is an exaggeration, at least for me.
>
>> Given how enthusiastic our NNTP users are, it’s safe to assume that if
>> we had information to share, we would.
>
> Yes, yes, but a little more communication would have been very
> appreciated.
We all would like more communication. Sometimes we get that, sometimes
we don’t.
> I know that the people working on this would be pressed for
> time and stressed. However, IMVHO, just telling somebody to tell people
> something should have been done better. I have been the technician
> repairing equipment with a howling crowd waiting and banging their feet
> (literally), and I know how it feels. I would have appreciated myself a
> spoke person on my behalf. I had to address that crowd once or twice.
I spent years working in IT, and had occasions where users demanded that
I “work faster”. I have little tolerance for that kind of approach, as
you may have noticed.
>> I find it easy to plan, actually. My plan is this: Wait until there
>> is additional information or the system is available again. Do
>> something else (during the outage, I managed to actually get a fair bit
>> of paid writing done = win for me. )
>
> Heh.
>
> I did plan.
>
> Badly.
>
> I did some carpentry. But I estimated the downtime would be way longer,
> and now my ledges are unfinished. Why did you put the forum back so
> soon? I haven’t finished my carpentry yet!
Might be time to get back to it, then.
You can always create a voluntary outage for yourself - just set
127.0.0.1 to nntp.opensuse.org = problem solved.
Jim
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
The point is we don’t have the SLA so our entitlement to be kept informed is somewhat limited to the Staff’s (unpaid volunteers AFAICT) own knowledge, availability, and convenience.
A demand for information is no different from impatient posters with problems demanding help on the technical forums which often results in a well-worn rebuttal.
You remember the web interface outage, even though NNTP was the workaround, very few bothered to use it, preferring to wait patiently for the repair. 
This thread reads like an Attenborough film clip of humans getting testy with boredom but trying to control themselves until the bus arrives.
On 2013-06-22 21:06, consused wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2566522 Wrote:
>> Sorry, I don’t correlate an information request with a “Service Level
>> Agreement”. I don’t see how both can be related. Maybe it is a cultural
>> thing.
> The point is we don’t have the SLA so our entitlement to be kept
> informed is somewhat limited to the Staff’s (unpaid volunteers AFAICT)
> own knowledge, availability, and convenience.
Well, that’s very similar to my own commitment of time to help others,
here. I give what I have: time and knowledge (I don’t have money)
> You remember the web interface outage, even though NNTP was the
> workaround, very few bothered to use it, preferring to wait patiently
> for the repair.
Mmm. Maybe they could not communicate their anxiety :-p
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
On 2013-06-22 20:06, hcvv wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2566574 Wrote:
>>
>> I did some carpentry. But I estimated the downtime would be way longer,
>> and now my ledges are unfinished. Why did you put the forum back so
>> soon? I haven’t finished my carpentry yet!
>>
>>> :-PP
> There was nobody but you that decided that adding to this conversation
> was more needed then finishing your carpentry.
You don’t catch a joke, do you?
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
On 2013-06-22 20:28, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 17:43:25 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> I did some carpentry. But I estimated the downtime would be way longer,
>> and now my ledges are unfinished. Why did you put the forum back so
>> soon? I haven’t finished my carpentry yet!
>
> Might be time to get back to it, then.
>
> You can always create a voluntary outage for yourself - just set
> 127.0.0.1 to nntp.opensuse.org = problem solved.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
No, I dreamt a dream
On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:36:02 GMT
hcvv <hcvv@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2566658 Wrote:
> >
> > You don’t catch a joke, do you?
> >
> No, I dreamt a dream
>
I dreamt NNTP was back up but that was all it was, a dream.
[OK, posted via NNTP but on one of the few groups that seem to be
working]
–
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 12.3 (64-bit); KDE 4.10.4; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Kernel: 3.9.7; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306
On 2013-06-23 13:13, Graham P Davis wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:36:02 GMT
> hcvv <hcvv@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> robin_listas;2566658 Wrote:
>>>
>>> You don’t catch a joke, do you?
>>>
>> No, I dreamt a dream
>>
>
> I dreamt NNTP was back up but that was all it was, a dream.
>
> [OK, posted via NNTP but on one of the few groups that seem to be
> working]
>
True, the gateway is not working right.
For example, these thread, started today, on applications:
openSuse 12.3 kde different cursor theme at login screen
java question and Evernote app (general)
Do not appear on nntp. This other:
Cannot change keyboard layout - Gnome 3.8 - OpenSUSE 12.3
has 2 posts on web, one on nntp. This:
alt+f2 or ctrl+alt+f* keys not working
has 9 posts on web, 7 on nntp. Hcw post from today is missing.
I’m testing with pan, no leafnode, and resubscribed 4 times at least.
Ie, today posts are not getting through on the application forum. Lets
see the install/boot/login forum. For instance, this post:
My system goes straight to grub rescue
is missing on nntp. This:
How do you remove an alien partition
Has activity today that I see on pan, but not in thunderbird, those made
by Hermes14. I have to bang leafnode on the head by resetting the
highwater mark.
Also I see code sections with broken wrap.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
Ah, preferring to keep it under control. Now that could go to a “cultural difference”. 
On 2013-06-22, swerdna <swerdna@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> This thread reads like an Attenborough film clip of humans getting
> testy with boredom but trying to control themselves until the bus
> arrives.
LOL! …or playing Angry Humans rather than Angry Birds while waiting for the bus! I think the more prickly openSUSE
forum regulars could be likened to the black exploding cannon-ball bird or the white exploding-egg laying one!
Well it seems to me that NNTP is working at the moment. So if this post makes it to the forum, I’d like to thank those
who fixed it!
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:27:37 GMT
flymail <flymail@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> On 2013-06-22, swerdna <swerdna@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> > This thread reads like an Attenborough film clip of humans getting
> > testy with boredom but trying to control themselves until the bus
> > arrives.
>
> LOL! …or playing Angry Humans rather than Angry Birds while waiting
> for the bus! I think the more prickly openSUSE forum regulars could
> be likened to the black exploding cannon-ball bird or the white
> exploding-egg laying one!
>
> Well it seems to me that NNTP is working at the moment. So if this
> post makes it to the forum, I’d like to thank those who fixed it!
>
I’m afraid NNTP is far from being functional at the moment. I subscribe
to a dozen groups and only four of those seem to be working. For
instance, o.o.help.applications, normally the busiest of those I
subscribe to, has shown no new postings since the outage.
After trying un-subscribing and re-subscribing, I started a new
subscription on a different machine - with the same
disappointing results.
–
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 12.3 (64-bit); KDE 4.10.4; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Kernel: 3.9.7; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306
On 2013-06-24 13:12, Graham P Davis wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:27:37 GMT
> flymail <flymail@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>> Well it seems to me that NNTP is working at the moment. So if this
>> post makes it to the forum, I’d like to thank those who fixed it!
>>
>
> I’m afraid NNTP is far from being functional at the moment. I subscribe
> to a dozen groups and only four of those seem to be working. For
> instance, o.o.help.applications, normally the busiest of those I
> subscribe to, has shown no new postings since the outage.
Yes, the highwater mark is wrong. You are using Claws, it seems. You
have to tell it to download ALL headers, or at least the headers of the
last hundred days (I don’t use claws, dunno the exact option).
There are two threads talking of this:
Newsgroups: opensuse.org.feedback.forums.support-information
Subject: Re: NNTP access (again)?
Newsgroups: opensuse.org.feedback.forums.comments-suggestions
Subject: nntp<>http inoperative again–apparently
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)
On 2013-06-24, Graham P Davis <cloddy@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> After trying un-subscribing and re-subscribing, I started a new
> subscription on a different machine - with the same
> disappointing results.
Rather odd. My usual 10 subscriptions seem to be up and running fine. Perhaps as Carlos says, it’s client dependent (I
use slrn).
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:12:12 +0000, Graham P Davis wrote:
> I’m afraid NNTP is far from being functional at the moment. I subscribe
> to a dozen groups and only four of those seem to be working. For
> instance, o.o.help.applications, normally the busiest of those I
> subscribe to, has shown no new postings since the outage.
>
> After trying un-subscribing and re-subscribing, I started a new
> subscription on a different machine - with the same disappointing
> results.
I understand work is still happening to resolve that. There are two NNTP
servers, and the hardware that failed feeds the messages to those two
servers - so the high message counters got out of sync. Work that’s
being done is to get those back in sync so the messages come through with
the right IDs.
It may be fixed now (they were down for about an hour staring an hour or
so ago, and I’m guessing that was to do the work that had been suggested
to resolve the issue). So we’ll see.
If so, the work that’s been done will ensure that new messages come
through and show properly as “new” on both interfaces.
Jim
–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:54:15 +0000, Jim Henderson wrote:
> I understand work is still happening to resolve that. There are two
> NNTP servers, and the hardware that failed feeds the messages to those
> two servers - so the high message counters got out of sync. Work that’s
> being done is to get those back in sync so the messages come through
> with the right IDs.
>
> It may be fixed now (they were down for about an hour staring an hour or
> so ago, and I’m guessing that was to do the work that had been suggested
> to resolve the issue). So we’ll see.
>
> If so, the work that’s been done will ensure that new messages come
> through and show properly as “new” on both interfaces.
I’m told that this is the case, so messages should pass both ways
properly now. If you see a case where this isn’t the case (after about
12:30 PM MDT today), let me know and I’ll pass it along.
Jim
–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:28:19 GMT
“Carlos E. R.” <robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> On 2013-06-24 13:12, Graham P Davis wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:27:37 GMT
> > flymail <flymail@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
>
> >> Well it seems to me that NNTP is working at the moment. So if this
> >> post makes it to the forum, I’d like to thank those who fixed it!
> >>
> >
> > I’m afraid NNTP is far from being functional at the moment. I
> > subscribe to a dozen groups and only four of those seem to be
> > working. For instance, o.o.help.applications, normally the busiest
> > of those I subscribe to, has shown no new postings since the outage.
>
> Yes, the highwater mark is wrong. You are using Claws, it seems. You
> have to tell it to download ALL headers, or at least the headers of
> the last hundred days (I don’t use claws, dunno the exact option).
I’ve always done that but it makes no difference. o.o.help.applications
was stuck at 160650 headers for a couple of days. However, in the past
couple of hours, some posts have started trickling through; now up to
160660.
>
> There are two threads talking of this:
>
> Newsgroups: opensuse.org.feedback.forums.support-information
> Subject: Re: NNTP access (again)?
>
> Newsgroups: opensuse.org.feedback.forums.comments-suggestions
> Subject: nntp<>http inoperative again–apparently
>
Thanks for mentioning those, I’ve been following the first but not the
second - yet.
–
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 12.3 (64-bit); KDE 4.10.4; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Kernel: 3.9.6; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306