Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

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#1

Hi,

I’m using KDE. Inside openSUSE, I navigate to: kickoff application launcher->computer->KInfoCenter. It opens and displays info about my openSUSE version and KDE version.

OS Version: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop openSUSE 13.2 (Harlequin) (x86_64)

KDE Version: 4.14.4 <- (Is that plasma? Or just KDE 4.14.4?)

I’ve Googled alot for the info, but can’t seem to find anything showing me how to check if my KDE is plasma or not. As I can see, KinfoCenter only states my version of KDE, but doesn’t say anything about plasma. Am I using it? If not, how do I enable it? Or disable it? I’ve also seen info about plasma 5.1, how do I install it? More or less, can it be enabled or disabled? Or after you do install it, you can’t disable unless you uninstall it?

Thanks!

#2

No you can install plasma if you want. but it really is not a finished project yet. I would not recommend for a stable operating environment. If you want to experiment then sure you can install it but it is not installed by default.

Plasma is more or less KDE 5 They just renamed things.

#3

Ahh, I kinda figured. Almost seems like a GUI front end for KDE itself. Which would more or less have overhead on system performance, even more so if its an unpolished project. Guess it can’t hurt to try it since I’m running openSUSE in a Virtual Machine by Virtualbox. I can just take a snapshot of the system state, and if I don’t like it, I’ll just do a restore by the system snapshot. Cool.

Thanks gogalthorp!

#4

No plasma is not different from or an add on to KDE it is KDE with a new name and version

#5

Ahh, Lol! I installed plasma 5 using YaST. But, it just didn’t seem to work right. Like it was buggy. But then again, YaST kept saying it would have to fix all kinds of conflicts by uninstalling and installing things, which made me crazy. I probably didn’t install it correctly, there was all kinds of of options in YaST for it. I didn’t know which ones to install. Maybe that’s why it didn’t seem to work right. Afterwards I restored my Virtualbox snapshot of openSUSE and everything was back to normal…

#6

That’s wrong.

“Plasma” is the name of KDE’s desktop shell, and it is called “Plasma” already in KDE4, which was the first KDE version that came with “Plasma”.

Plasma5 is just the next version of KDE’s desktop, built upon Qt5 and KDE Frameworks5.

And strictly speaking, “KDE” is no desktop environment at all or not even software. “KDE” is the community that creates software like “Plasma”, “Kate”, and so on.

For installing Plasma5, you just have to install the package “plasma5-session”. And yes, it does conflict with your installed “KDE4” (kdebase4-workspace at least), so you have to uninstall that.

I created packages that can co-exist with “KDE4” in my own repo, see here e.g.:
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/502450-KDE-5-on-13-2?p=2675174#post2675174

#7

Well fine points aside common usage suggest the plasma 5 is just KDE 5 in sheep’s clothing :wink:

The KDE communities attempt at some sort of re-branding is totally confusing. They now want us to refer to what we instinctively would call KDE5 as plasma 5. and yes plasma itself has been with us since 4.0 but it did not play a name in the desktop environment. I understand the point is that KDE things will not all move in sync step any more but parts will move at different version rates. But re-branding the desktop will not reduce but increase the confusion.

For mere mortals Plasma5 is the KDE5 desktop no matter how pedantic you want to be. :stuck_out_tongue:

#8

No. The point is that you are using “Plasma” even if you login to “KDE4” (which is called “KDE Plasma Desktop” on the login screen btw).
And that’s also the one and only answer to this thread’s question.
If you are logging into “KDE” (4 or 5), you are using Plasma (either 4 or 5). You can’t really “use” KDE without Plasma (although you can of course run KDE applications inside a different DE).

That “rebranding” (that “KDE” only refers to the community, not the software) was done 6 years ago already, and even before that, KDE’s desktop was called “Plasma” (4.0, released in 2007) was the first version to include Plasma, which was rewritten from scratch back then to replace KDE3’s kdesktop and kicker)… :stuck_out_tongue:

The only change with KDE Frameworks5/Plasma 5 is that the release is more decoupled, i.e. there are independent releases of Frameworks (the libraries), Plasma (the desktop), and the single applications, even with their own independent version numbers. There are no complete “KDE” releases any longer. And it would probably be more confusing to call it “KDE5, the desktop, has been released in version 5.2.1 today”, “KDE5, the applications got their 14.12.3 release”, and “KDE5, the libraries, are available as version 5.7.0 now”, no?

#9

Well breaking into parts makes sense for the developer but It will just create confusion to the users. I understand the problem but explaining it to new user is a pain and they really don’t in general need to know the gory details. What they need is a stable name for the desktop and some sort of versioning so that it is obvious when something is not in sync. Suddenly calling what we have called KDE desktop for a decade, plasma is a real user space problem. Maybe drop the arbitrary numbering and use something like summer/winter/fall/spring of 14 Like the old clipper versions.

{/endrant}

#10

It makes sense for users as well.
Why should they have to install the whole “KDE5” (or “KDE4”, or whatever) just to be able to install/use one single KDE application, e.g.?

And having to release everything together caused big problems (for users too) when KDE4 was new, because the desktop was not ready yet in 4.0 (it was more a technical preview), but did come together with the KDE4 applications. So distributions (not openSUSE though, they kept KDE3 and only installed some selected KDE4 applications by default) packaged it together and users had to bear the “not-working”, incomplete desktop.

This time it’s the opposite, the desktop is basically ready for a while, but most applications are not. Should they have delayed the release of the desktop for a year or two (and get no feedback about it as well) until all applications are ported?

I understand the problem but explaining it to new user is a pain and they really don’t in general need to know the gory details.

What’s so gory about calling the desktop “Plasma” instead of “KDE” (or kdesktop, for that matter)?
What’s so gory of separating the desktop from the applications? You were able to use KDE applications in other DE’s as well all the time. So why should they be bundled and released together with the desktop?

And: should all applications that use KDE’s libraries be bundled with the desktop, too?
Should all GTK applications be bundled with GNOME-Shell?

What they need is a stable name for the desktop and some sort of versioning so that it is obvious when something is not in sync.

They do have a stable name for the desktop (“Plasma”), and some sort of versioning.
There’s no point in having the applications and the desktop in sync. And this is made clear by the “new” versioning scheme.
Btw, many applications did have their own internal versions already during KDE4 times (and I think even KDE3). Just have a look at “About Kate”, “About Ark”, or “About Konsole” e.g.)

Why should the user care about the version numbers at all though?

Suddenly calling what we have called KDE desktop for a decade, plasma is a real user space problem.

Well, “they” called it “Plasma” right from the beginning. It got a new name because it was a completely new product. That you called it “KDE Desktop” for a decade is not KDE’s fault… :wink:

Maybe drop the arbitrary numbering and use something like summer/winter/fall/spring of 14 Like the old clipper versions.

There was a big discussion about that before Plasma 5 was released. And such a scheme did seem to be the preferred, but was dropped shortly before the release. I guess the main reason was that it would sound strange (and confusing) to have announcement headlines like “KDE releases the second bugfix release to their Fall 2014 version of Plasma Desktop”…
And the applications do have such a versioning scheme now: 14.12.2 means the 2nd bugfix release for the 14.12 KDE applications release. And 14.12 means it was released in December 2014 (i.e. the 12th month of 2014).

In the end it makes no sense to discuss this here anyway. It’s KDE’s branding, it’s KDE’s software, and they decide how to name it and what versioning scheme to use (if any).

#11

What’s so gory about calling the desktop “Plasma” instead of “KDE” (or kdesktop, for that matte

Nothing to me but you have a generation of people some just barly bystanders that have called KDE desktop KDE desktop for ever now we change nomenclature. Nomenclature changes are social not technical . People still call copy machines Xerox even though they are made by others.This is User Interface 101. And look at metro or should I say the interface formally known as metro and now known as modern. You and I know what plasma is not one in 10 newbees do. Like the OP to this thread. Total confusion. You call it KDE5 and now they that iit is new KDE desktop stuff. And the herd will never ever get the fine distinctions you lay out.

#12

Not now.
Again, the desktop is called Plasma since KDE 4.0 (released 8! years ago). And it made sense to give it a new name, because it was written from scratch and incorporated the functions from two earlier “applications”, kdesktop and kicker.

Nomenclature changes are social not technical . People still call copy machines Xerox even though they are made by others.This is User Interface101. And look at metro or should I say the interface formally known as metro and now known as modern.

The “nomenclature” has not changed at all. You are still using a desktop/workspace on top of your Linux kernel.

The name of a product has changed 8 years ago, that’s it.

Your analogy would mean that people would call all DE’s “KDE” (or even “Windows” or whatever) which is plain nonsense.

You and I know what plasma is not one in 10 newbees do. Like the OP to this thread. Total confusion.

The OP did know about Plasma, otherwise he wouldn’t have asked.

You call it KDE5 and now they that iit is new KDE desktop stuff. And the herd will never ever get the fine distinctions you lay out.

I was just trying to explain. Nobody has to know those fine distinctions.

The “herd” (as you call users it seems) use the “KDE Plasma Desktop” (as it is labelled on the login screen for 6 years at least), and they run “KDE Applications” on top of it (but they could also run them inside a different Desktop Environment, or they can run non-KDE applications inside the KDE Desktop Environment). This is nothing new.
Or they can use the new “Plasma 5”, again that’s how it is called on the login screen, and that’s how it is called in the release announcements.

If you are unsatisfied with those names, complain to KDE.

And complain to LibreOffice as well e.g., because they changed the name although it was called OpenOffice for years…:stuck_out_tongue:

#13

sure it has changed in the past like copies being called xeroxes the desktop has been called KDE desktop not plasma desktop. Plasma has been here since 4.0 so why change now. it make no sense to any one but tech freaks and the developers. Like meto KDE desktop is here to stay even though the KDE org may wish otherwise. I understand the tech arguments and have no real problem but I also know users and they won’t like it and will contimue calling the desktop the KDE desktop not the KDE plasma desktop. Also plasma is very generic as a name where has KDE is not. My degree is in physics and the first thing I think of is an ionized gas not a desk top.

They can call it Bluekat desktop for all I care I can deal It is just a very poor social move like the Windows metro fiasco. Techies need to get out more LOL

So now I gues it it PDFKAKDE Plasma Desktop Formally Known as KDE

#14

Your sentence doesn’t make sense. Nothing has changed now, because Plasma has been here since 4.0.

Like meto KDE desktop is here to stay even though the KDE org may wish otherwise. I understand the tech arguments and have no real problem but I also know users and they won’t like it and will contimue calling the desktop the KDE desktop not the KDE plasma desktop. Also plasma is very generic as a name where has KDE is not. My degree is in physics and the first thing I think of is an ionized gas not a desk top.

Why should a user even care if the desktop they use is called KDE Plasma Desktop, or KDE4, or KDE Windows, or anything else?

And I still don’t get your problem with it being called “Plasma” (again, since years).
What about “Netscape Navigator”? How could they even dare to rename it to Mozilla, and then Firefox (and/or Seamonkey)? >:)

They can call it Bluekat desktop for all I care I can deal It is just a very poor social move like the Windows metro fiasco.

Hm? You mean Windows metro was a fiasco because it was called “Metro”?
I seriously doubt that.

So now I gues it it PDFKAKDE Plasma Desktop Formally Known as KDE

No, it isn’t.
It is KDE’s Plasma Desktop, since years. And there are other flavours of Plasma available (like Plasma Netbook), see here: https://www.kde.org/workspaces/

#15

Change the naming convention nothing has change so why change the name

But users do care they latch on to a symbol (name) and won’t let go Again I point to metro and xerox.

Oh but netscape re-branded right “Here is our new browser called Firefox” But KDE really has not done that with Plasma or what ever they end up calling it. Because I expect to see changes again in the near future. Plasma is a tenable name for a desktop. A piece of a desktop ok but a desktop it sucks. KDE like it or not is synonymous with desktop Plasma is not

#16

Everything has changed in 4.0 regarding the desktop. It was rewritten from scratch. That’s why it got a new name, Plasma.
And its name hasn’t changed since then.

But users do care they latch on to a symbol (name) and won’t let go Again I point to metro and xerox.

So what?
I still don’t get your point about Metro.
And “KDE” was the name of the complete “Desktop Environment”, not only the desktop.

Regarding your Xerox example, I can only repeat. All copiers are called Xerox, but never have been all desktops or DEs called “KDE”.

Oh but netscape re-branded right “Here is our new browser called Firefox” But KDE really has not done that with Plasma or what ever they end up calling it.

No, they didn’t. They released the “Mozilla Suite” first, which was Netscape rebranded.
Then they ripped it apart again after years and released the browser part as Firefox (and the EMail part as Thunderbird,…).

And KDE re-branded by telling the world that KDE is rather a community, and the name of their desktop is Plasma. And that the desktop is independent of the applications. What’s wrong about that? In particular if you compare it with Netscape’s “rebranding”?
And I repeast, the desktop actually is called “Plasma” since 4.0.

And I repeat, you should better tell your concerns to KDE, not me (or whoever reads that here).

Because I expect to see changes again in the near future.

Why do you expect that?
And why is a possible change in the future (of which not even the slightest indications are available) a reason to dismiss “Plasma” as a brand?

Plasma is a tenable name for a desktop. A piece of a desktop ok but a desktop it sucks.

I do not understand what you want to say with that, sorry.

Isn’t that a contradiction?
How can it be “tenable” and “suck” at the same time?

KDE like it or not is synonymous with desktop Plasma is not

I don’t care. You or anybody else can call it whatever you/they like, it doesn’t matter at all to me.

But like it or not, the desktop is called Plasma since 8 years, by KDE.
If you don’t like it, tell KDE.