What’s with this guy Theo? He attacks people directly who merely critique his documentation - no wonder Torvalds find him difficult.
From: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@openbsd.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:12 PM
To: Richard Thornton
Subject: Re: OpenBSD 5.0-current (GENERIC) #65: Thu Nov 3 00:58:36 MDT 2011
Yes, when you can’t read it is other people’s fault.
It is clear what country you live in.
No wonder openbsd has such a small user base!!!
>
> What’s with this guy Theo?
so, who cares what goes on on BSD/Microsoft/Apple/XBox/PlayStation forums?
–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!
There is no reason other than I think it is interesting that openSUSE forums seem to be full of relatively nice people, but the other free OS is run by a *********. The point is people should try to be nicer to each other. After all, it is just an OS, not a work of art.
I can only speak for myself in this case but I wouldn’t call this rude. Both cynicism and sarcasm are often frowned upon, yet I never had issues with them.
I’m used to this type of conversation due to spending 10 years of my childhood on the city streets, hence my general attitude which seems to upset certain people.
This guy just might have had a bad day or someone else pissed him off and made him nervous.
Anyway, I don’t know this person so I can’t speculate about the cause.
Wouldn’t worry about it too much, some men just want to watch the world burn, as they say.
There is some sort of distaste by the openbsd crowd for the linux crowd. I was not aware of it until recently when I began experimenting with openbsd for sparc. I had always stayed away from openbsd on my intel equipment because it appears to be more trouble to get basic stuff working. They also have this klugy versioning system which at first glance is rather difficult to ascertain, although it does become relatively easy after many mistakes. What we call development, they call, “snapshots” and they call the patched version, “current”, and the “official” version, “release.” This setup seems seamless here in the opensuse world, but not there, because if one somehow downloads a “current” version, as I once did, then adding packages can sometimes be problematic due to dependencies. Asking questions about the various versions risks endless accusations of not taking the time to read their documentation, sort of like being in school - if you don’t get an “A”, then you did not work hard enough. While I have been guilty of criticizing opensuse in the past, I can say without a doubt, life is better in lizard land than in blowfish land. The main claim is the blowfish OS is “more secure” than the Lizard; I am not knowledgeable enough to argue that one way or the other, but if others can shed some light, that would be an interesting discussion.
There is some sort of distaste by the openbsd crowd for the linux crowd.
Ppl who feel small and threatened have a tendency to be like that, it boosts their confidence.
On 1/21/2012 4:26 PM, RichardET wrote:
>
> There is some sort of distaste by the openbsd crowd for the linux crowd.
> I was not aware of it until recently when I began experimenting with
> openbsd for sparc. I had always stayed away from openbsd on my intel
> equipment because it appears to be more trouble to get basic stuff
> working. They also have this klugy versioning system which at first
> glance is rather difficult to ascertain, although it does become
> relatively easy after many mistakes. What we call development, they
> call, “snapshots” and they call the patched version, “current”, and the
> “official” version, “release.” This setup seems seamless here in the
> opensuse world, but not there, because if one somehow downloads a
> “current” version, as I once did, then adding packages can sometimes be
> problematic due to dependencies. Asking questions about the various
> versions risks endless accusations of not taking the time to read their
> documentation, sort of like being in school - if you don’t get an “A”,
> then you did not work hard enough. While I have been guilty of
> criticizing opensuse in the past, I can say without a doubt, life is
> better in lizard land than in blowfish land. The main claim is the
> blowfish OS is “more secure” than the Lizard; I am not knowledgeable
> enough to argue that one way or the other, but if others can shed some
> light, that would be an interesting discussion.
>
>
It reminds me of people that hold their conviction above everything else.
No criticism allowed.
Some insiders said, that Steve Jobs was not nice either. Well, can’t say
anything about anyone really.
But it reminds really about the starting days in Linux. As a newbie you
were confronted with that elitist attitude everytime. Read this, read
that, don’t ask.
But you will find that pretty much anywhere. Let it be Windows, Apple,
Linux or whatever. There are always people that have to make them
bigger. And then there are trolls. A very interesting species.
If you can not get over easily over arguments, then you will have a
difficult time. I would call it even bulling for that matter and it goes
so far that some faint hearted people take it very very personally.
These difference sound very technical and academical in my opinion. How
about ports. Uhm…
I just think some people are in lala land.
–
Windows, supports nearly all software, hardware, and viruses.
Rejoice they sing - They worship their own space - In a moment of love,
they will die for their grace - Don’t kill the whale
Actually it is not hard to find the source of the angst…
Is Linux For Losers? - Forbes.com
Here is a typical quote from the man himself:
"“It’s terrible,” De Raadt says. “Everyone is using it, and they don’t realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, ‘This is garbage and we should fix it.’” "
Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is “difficult” and declined to comment further. …
Stallman on OpenBSD!
Richard Stallman sent a message to OpenBSD-Misc, explaining why he doesn’t recommend OpenBSD. “From what I have heard, OpenBSD does not contain non-free software (though I am not sure whether it contains any non-free firmware blobs). However, its ports system does suggest non-free programs, or at least so I was told when I looked for some BSD variant that I could recommend. I therefore exercise my freedom of speech by not including OpenBSD in the list of systems that I recommend to the public.” His mail started a huge thread (that’s just page 1) and since then he’s under a blast of messages from Theo de Raadt and the OpenBSD users. De Raadt replied: “Richard, you are wrong. You said very clearly in your interview that the ports tree contains non-free software. It does not. It is just a scaffold of Makefiles containing URLs, and an occasional patch here or there. You are just plain wrong. And you are not enough of a man to admit that you are wrong. I may be unfriendly at times, but you are a power-misusing hypocritical liar who attacks projects that try harder than any others to only make free software available. Shame on you.”
“Two giants, roused from slumber, two blades clashing. Each blames the other…for what the Thief has done. - From Caduca’s Notes on the Prophecies”
Theo De Raadt and Richard Stallman are both very ideological, but they have conflicting ideologies.
Me? I’m just a pragmatist. I choose what works for me. Currently, that’s linux. I could easily change to one of the BSD versions, should there be reasons to do so - but that seems unlikely.
In the meantime, I get an occasional chuckle when Stallman or De Raadt goes a bit overboard.
Yes I agree with you - I have only been experimenting with it because it does seem to at least work on old sparc equipment, which is way past its lifecycle. I have researched using Debian 6.03 for sparc and it installs flawlessly, but the old sun blades used the Rage XL video card and for some reason Debian always throws “out of sync” errors if I try to run X. Some others claim to have been successful passing kernel parameters to Debian when running on old blades but none of the fixes worked for me unfortunately. The main uses for OpenBSD are as a server, either mail, dhcp, firewall, or storage. As a desktop system, it is extremely lacking as all the xxxxBSD flavors are from what I have seen, and I have also tried FreeBSD. For off the shelf mid range Intel equipment, I think GNU/Linux is the right choice.
Am 22.01.2012 15:46, schrieb RichardET:
> but the old sun blades used the Rage XL video card
Any chance to fetch an old pci nvidia card from the garbage somewhere
(at least a MX 400) and plug it into it and try that with the nouveau
driver (works for me on an old crappy 32bit machine as playground with
intel cpu it works there also with the proprietary nvidia driver 96.xx
but I think the proprietary driver does not support sparc).
It’s just a thought, no idea if nouveau really works on sparc, I just
see there seems to be a debian package.
On the other hand if OpenBSD is fine except their mailing list, did you
have a look at the forums
http://www.daemonforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=11
maybe that is a friendlier place, you could look through some threads to
get an impression how they treat people and if that is an option.
–
PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.4 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram
The folks over at PC-BSD has done a ton of work making BSD more desktop friendly (and there is GhostBSD too which I recently learnt about).
Neil
Am 22.01.2012 17:16, schrieb nlsthzn:
> The folks over at ‘PC-BSD’ (http://www.pcbsd.org/) has done a ton of
> work making BSD more desktop friendly (and there is ‘GhostBSD’
> (http://ghostbsd.org/) too which I recently learnt about).
PC-BSD is not for sparcthey focus on intel/amd 32 and 64bit, same for
ghostbsd.
–
PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.4 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram
Ah my bad (didn’t realize the comment was about SPARC specifically).
Neil