Is there any way to remove all that useless “Vista” from KDE4 and return it to the classic KDE (without all the Widgets, Gadgets, Plasmoids, Plugins and stuff)?
You can actually make kde4 look very like kde3
But kde4 will never be kde3
Eventually folk will give up rubbishing kde4 when they explore it’s possibilities. AFAIC there is no looking back, as good as kde3 was, it’s history, for me anyway.
I do not know if it is “Vista” (never used it), but I still feel if they refurbished my house without even telling me where the cupboard is.
I am reluctantly evaluating it further, but I find myself looking for other tasks to take priority over it. >:( . But I have to, 10.3 is over.
I am loosing the joy of using the system.
Can still not understand that they broke even Konsole.
On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 20:16 +0000, hcvv wrote:
…
> Can still not understand that they broke even Konsole.
>
>
There is “some” good news on that though. Like the stupidity
of how sizing is done (only remember last size, doesn’t allow
you to set size). While at first the konsole developers
pushed back, they are beginning to see the light… I believe
konsole4 will get back some of it’s KDE3 goodness.
BUT, it is sort of irritating that you have to petition and
justify why certain KDE3 features need to put back in…
sigh…
Or you do not petition, but loose all trust in the product and revert to good old xterm. Just a simple functioning work horse. And when your customers/users have lost their trust in you it is very difficult to get it back.
I am loosing a lot of time I could have used e.g. in helping people here at the Forums 
with this poking around. But I am not joking, there are people who are not running Linux with all add ons just to spend some spare time
or as a hobby horse (again a new distro/level/factory :P), but to use it as a stable tool for production. Until now I did not see any improvement in my production by using KDE 4 vs. KDE 3. I think I could even argue that using CDE with Motif did most of what I needed and need now for much less CPU cycles.
Do not take me wrong however, I think openSUSE 11.2 is an improvement (well the kernel was broken for me, but that is solved in a new version) except for KDE.
The day I decided not to compare KDE4 to KDE, but to regard it as a total new desktop, I started finding features I never saw in KDE, started doing things in a new way. These days I miss things in KDE3, or have to think real hard where to find them.
Any of the ‘konsole-disappointed’ ever tried yakuake? I’m a ‘terminal guy’ and I use it.
But I do not want a new desktop! I am satisfied with what I have and want to carry on with my ‘work’ The computer is a tool, not an end.
I am one of those silly guys that runs a car for 17 years because it functions, I can get two bikes inside and I have problems getting the bikes in any new one!
I am never buying something new when the old one still functions. And a friend of mine says: 'Whenever you bought something that you like (running shoes, backpack, socks, …, go back to the shop and buy more, because when you wait until it is detoriated beyond use, the original model will not be there anymore". And right he is.
Maybe I will try that yakuake, thanks. But when I go for xterm, I know what I have.
On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 21:06 +0000, hcvv wrote:
> Or you do not petition, but loose all trust in the product and revert to
> good old xterm. Just a simple functioning work horse. And when your
> customers/users have lost their trust in you it is very difficult to get
> it back.
Yes… I have some friends that went to a different terminal app…
but, all the same, it’s nice to see a uniform coherent platform (when
possible). I know it used to be that KDE3 folks could easily
sway people away from Gnome because of gnome terminal… but now,
it’s gotten more difficult since the new konsole has failed us a bit.
…snip…
>
> Do not take me wrong however, I think openSUSE 11.2 is an improvement
> (well the kernel was broken for me, but that is solved in a new version)
> except for KDE.
I would say KDE4 will get better as it “matures”, but I don’t want
to get flamed again. 
There may be a few more things that make modern Linux distros more like Vista and MS windows in general. The problem that I have always had (among many others) is the fact the MS Windows makes most every decision for the user. Modern distro installs do the same type of thing. Mostly it happens in configuration, some distros break away from standard tools. I like a nice GUI for configuration but when I open a term and find that ifup and ifdown are not the standard it does not make sense. I have several audio back ends to choose from but the distro seems to pick one for me instead of asking, and that includes what/which driver to use.I wish that there were two different installs, one for laymen (not an insult as I understand the need for a simple install that works,) and one for people who want to dig deeper and customize their system the way they want. I can customize my system but would like to be asked if I am experienced with Linux at the beginning of install and not have to dig through RPMs later, the dependencies are ridiculous. It is spreading. I just looked up slackware and found that it now uses packages. Yuck.
All this said, I was refreshed that Yast asks me what I would like to control my network with.
Also, Linux beats the heck out of Vista. My last job had me as an international help desk agent. We were forced to use Vista. Most everyone revolted to the point that we were told, “Use Vista or find another job!” Funny that My coworkers and I got too the point of loosing our jobs because Vista is so bad. At the same time I was being ask to do the updates on our network storage devices. They could not handle a term.
Well I’m out Have a nice rant.
Jeremy
There are plenty of chances to customize it during the installation (packages, partitions, etc.). Yast even gives you an opportunity to choose advanced setup configuration early in the process. Did you see this?
Nope, he did not see that. As he did not see that KDE4 does have this and Vista does not.
@hcvv: Henk, I’m much like you. If I find pants I like, I take them to the shopkeeper, ask for them in my size. When OK, I’ll have three. Exactly for the reason your friend mentions. So in my cupboard there’s a spare motherboard, 4GB of RAM that fits in it, I wear a leather coat ( same one for over 10 years ), quite a “duurzaam” life. I’m old enough to know that change is not equal to improvement. But I’ve always felt that new things should be met with an open mind.
About yakuake: it has become a part of my computing life in such a way, that I hit F12 in XP to open the DOS box :)…
Like automounting, this device manager is an intrusive ‘one size fits none’ which causes more problems than it fixes. And don’t even get me started on Knetworkmanager.
One thing I am happy with, I do not need any networkmanager!!! lol!
Yeap, I do. And it never works, not even in the famous 3.5. I have to say that I did not change to 11.2 because I was already warned by 11.1. The last system that really was perfect was 11.0. Ran well on my notebook. Who needs more?
I will sit it out. Wait up to December to see what has happened in the meanwhile. I would take the guess that with 4.5 or .6 it will be much more…like 3.5.
First off, I did not “see” the advanced option. At lest I don’t think so.
Second, Vista does have advanced install but you won’t see it using autorun install (non the less Vista is ****)
Third, Why are you comparing a desktop / session manager too a complete OS.
Fourth, and this applies to other responses as well, I said I was refreshed by the yast utility asking me about how to handle my network. In fact I was impressed.
Fifth, If I was not open minded about new ideas why would I be updating my machines, they have worked for years. At least since red hat five.
Sixth, I don’t understand what you are getting at with the story about paints and motherboards. It seems that you are saying that I am stagnant and afraid of change or too lay to change. I may be too lazy, but if I were stagnant or afraid I would not be upgrading. Plus I get all my pants from my local used clothing store. It’s great you go buy 10 pair of pants in your size for 20 bucks. Go home, try them on, and the one’s that you don’t like you donate back to the store.
Also these responses are of the “If the shoe fits where it” kind. I get confused as to who said what.
Jeremy
Ahh, don’t worry, just wait for KDE-7 and be happy. >:)
You’re halfway there with KDE-3.5 anyway. lol!
Happy is good
Jeremy
You don’t want new desktop? How about we stop development and all use Win95 till eternity? Will this do it for you? Heck, go back to DOS… Who needs these GUIs anyways? 
I do not know about Win98, I suppose the 98 means it was ‘invented’ in 1998. But we run an MS-DOS system until about 5 years ago (when I converted tha last applics to openSUSE) and my wife stilll regrets the loss of Word Perfect.
I a post above I mentioned CDE (Common Desktop Environment) with X11 and the OSF/Motif window manager. The documentation I still have is Edition 6 from August 1992. But Edition 2 was fom December 1988. Who talks about Win98? The whole DE is about 10 years older! (and better)
And as a ceterum censeo I add: it had an xterm whith options to let it start with n columns and m lines!
You missed the point of my sentence where I tried to show, in simple words, that development/progress is inherently incompatible with a “frozen system” where everything stays the same all the time ad infinitum. If you allow change/turbulence (or in our case progress & development) in a closed static system that previously to this allowance never ever changed, that system will inevitably change at some point, even more so if this development/progress never ends
And I wrote Win95, not Win98