Yes I know I know there is no KDE5 but for me I still call KDE plasma frameworks 5 KDE5 for convenience sake and simplification.
In any case while I do think the transition from KDE4 to KDE5 has been more smooth then when distros transitioned from KDE3 to 4 there are some concerns I have for it.
Namely there are still stability and application issues concerning KDE5, it still has a tendency to crash and a lot of apps have undergone the transition.
I think the situation here calls for sticking with KDE4 for the forseeable future, I dont think the mistakes made with KDE4 or gnome shell should be repeated, let other distros like Arch linux or even tumbleweed experiement and test and not make the same miscalculations made with the transitions from both Gnome 2 and KDE3 happen again under a distro like opensuse.
Again this is a stability concern more than anything, there are little signs that KDE5 is ready for openSUSE.
When openSUSE 13.3 or whatever the next release is called comes out I think this should be a option.
Make KDE5 its own separate thing, there is still time before the next openSUSE comes out to make a good rational decision.
I agree with this, emphatically.
Well at least until its a bit more sturdy, openSUSE only offers two primary desktops it officially supports and with one of them gnome shell makes me want to vomit:X
I bet it will be standard in next openSUSE. Kubuntu will update soon https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/Alpha2/Kubuntu Fedora 22 also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Plasma_5
Will 13.3 even come out in 2015? Could be almost a year of bug fixing ahead before new plasma becomes “default”. openSUSE will be late to plasma 5 party unless 13.3 is rushed out.
If you mean openSUSE should wait until 13.4 it will turn distro in to a museum.
If not in to GTK based stuff think of LXQT. Should also be declared “stable” at time of 13.3. Can be plan B if plasma 5 flops.
A few comments:
Yes, there is no KDE5. And there is no “KDE plasma frameworks 5” either. 
I take it that the OP was mainly aimed at Plasma5, the desktop. What applications you use is largely unrelated to the desktop anyway, it’s no problem to run KDE4, KF5, or even GNOME (or whatever) applications inside the Plasma5 desktop, as always.
Stating here that you are concerned about Plasma5’s stability is not really helpful at all.
If you want to be constructive, better try it out yourself and report any crashes/bugs/problems you experience to KDE. (I do maintain a repo that allows to keep KDE4 installed and have both if you are interested)
It’s not a question if Plasma5 will replace KDE4 as default desktop in openSUSE, it’s only a question when this will happen.
As KDE4’s desktop likely will not be supported at all any more by KDE after the summer, and Plasma5 is progressing nicely, the chance is rather high that Plasma5 will be the default desktop in the next openSUSE release. And I don’t know whether KDE4 will still be included at all if that’s the case.
A discussion about this is going on at the moment at the opensuse-kde mailinglist btw, initiated by openSUSE’s KDE team:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2015-03/msg00010.html
OTOH, e.g. the next Kubuntu, that’s going to be released in April, will use Plasma5 (only, AFAIK) as desktop, so I’d expect most problems being ironed out until the next openSUSE release.
That said, it is completely stable on my 2 systems where I have it installed, the last crash of the desktop that I’ve seen was months ago. I still use KDE4 as my main desktop though, I just login to Plasma5 from time to time to toy around with it and follow the progress…
Regarding KF5 and applications based on it, I see no stabililty concerns either. KF5 is basically a continuation of KDE4’s libraries, better split into independent units, and things that could be (made sense to be) integrated into Qt5 itself got dropped. And the applications are mainly ports at the moment, but they get developed/maintained now instead of the (old) KDE4 versions. So they should even be more stable than the KDE4 versions after they get released, and they get active bugfixing of course, whereas the KDE4 versions won’t any more.
Also, KF5 has seen the first release last June already (like Plasma5), it is at version 5.8.0 now. And the first Qt5 release was in 2012 already. Even YaST is based on Qt5 since 13.2…
And why should openSUSE offer more than two “primary” desktops? 2 is already more than “primary” would imply… 
You have a choice to install more (fully supported) desktops though, you can even choose some of them during a fresh installation instead of KDE/GNOME (just choose “Other” instead of KDE or GNOME).
Well, IMHO it’s wrong (and unfair) to say that “openSUSE will be late to plasma 5 party”. Plasma5 is available in official packages (in a separate repo) since 5.0 was released (and even for months before that, but the packages were still a bit experimental back then).
And since 13.2, Plasma5 is even a part of the standard distribution (5.1.2 at the moment, but an update to 5.2.1 is already running for 13.2).
You can easily install and use it, there’s even a pattern included.
Release schedule of openSUSE vs. other distros vs. new plasma stuff will make official openSUSE release latish. Not the same as being held back, just how calendar works. Install some Breeze stuff via Yast and less Oxygenic Window decorations plus icons and 4 becomes 4.5 
If no feel of too late it is only an advantage as more programs will be converted and more issues fixed.
If Kubuntu, Fedora make announcements already, and others http://kaosx.us/kf5-move-kde-4-removed/, it cant be too hasty to expect 5 stuff in 13.3.
I did not battle early KDE 4.x releases and definitely not Gnome 3 so might be more relaxed compared to those who did.
Yes, but again, openSUSE 13.2 already comes with Plasma5. It’s just not installed by default, but you only need to install the pattern in YaST (actually just installing the package “plasma5-session” will give you a functioning Plasma5 desktop).
KF5 based applications (except those that are released together with the desktop, like KInfocenter and systemsettings) are a different story, but only a few are already released at the moment. Some more will have their first release in April (part of KDE Applications 15.04), but even the August release (KDE Applications 15.08) will not have all applications ported. So openSUSE is not really “latish” regarding this either.
The next openSUSE release will definitely contain all KF5 applications part of the latest KDE Applications release at that time. Whether their corresponding (then abandoned) KDE4 counterparts will be included as well remains to be seen though.
IMO, fwiw, openSUSE is in the lead on Plasma5 and has been since fall of last year. My opinion is based on the fact that I’ve been using Plasma5 on 4 machines here for many months. Granted, I’m just a home worker and I only support my family, but it’s been my DE for my dev machine and my HTPC (dual-mon) in addition to my music player (JRiver MediaCenter 20 for Linux) and our family laptop (toshiba P775D), which pulls double-duty for general email/web surfing and is our 0AD machine (plugged into the HDTV).
I think people seem to be confused about the applications vs. the desktop. Yes, the applications ported to KF5 have just started to roll out in earnest, but with the excellent decision to bring forward the work on the KDE4lib support, the old apps work just fine on Plasma5 (at least the ones I use). I think a lot of the confusion also stems from the fact that people are making statements about KF5/Plasma5 when they really haven’t tried it.
I’ll say once again (though they many not hear it) a big “Thanks” to the openSUSE team (and you wolfie) for the work on getting KF5/Plasma5/QT5.x into 13.2/Fact/TW for us early adopters.
Look I just dont want a repeat of gnome shell and KDE4, I dont care how “out of date” KDE4 might become I just want stability.
Its not like openSUSE offers a totally supported version of XFCE or Cinnamon to fall back on, just because Kubuntu and fedora is doing it doesnt mean openSUSE should.
And who guarantees that KDE4 will stay stable or for how long? KDE’s developers won’t fix any bugs any more after summer. And even now most work goes into “KDE5”.
Anyway, this won’t be decided here in this thread.
And you cannot compare the situation with gnome-shell and KDE4 to Plasma5. Plasma5 is more an evolution of KDE4’s Plasma, not a revolution like KDE4’s Plasma or gnome-shell have been. Those were completely new products back then when they were first released.
And the main problem with “KDE4” was that the desktop just wasn’t ready when KDE4 was released. It was basically meant as technical preview, but it had to be released to not unnecessarily hold back the applications and libraries that were ready at that time.
And that’s one of the main reasons why KDE split up the releases and doesn’t do a single “KDE5” any more: now everything can be released when it is ready. E.g. there’s no need to delay the desktop release just because dolphin’s KF5 port has critical issues (note that this is just a synthetical example, KF5 dolphin actually works just fine and will be part of the upcoming KDE Applications 15.04 release).
Its not like openSUSE offers a totally supported version of XFCE or Cinnamon to fall back on
???
A totally supported version of XFCE is included in the distribution (everything that’s part of the standard distribution is officially supported). What are you missing?
Even the Xfce Portal (Portal:Xfce - openSUSE Wiki) explicitely states:
The Xfce desktop is a well integrated and fully supported part of openSUSE.
Cinnamon is available in an add-on repo, see here: Portal:Cinnamon - openSUSE Wiki
But still there’s also at least MATE (a GNOME2 fork), FVWM2, IceWM, LXDE, LXQT, WindowMaker, E17 (all those officially in the distribution)
Plenty to choose from, I’d say.
Not that this is in any way related or matters at all to decide when Plasma5 should replace KDE4’s desktop as default.
just because Kubuntu and fedora is doing it doesnt mean openSUSE should.
With this I fully agree.
I always found XFCE lacking on openSUSE thus my comment about it, there is just something not right about it that I cant put my finger on. It just feels lacking compared to other distros with XFCE
That’s of course very specific again… :sarcastic:
Still, the current state of XFCE in openSUSE has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the decision whether Plasma5 is ready/stable enough and should be the default desktop or not, nor whether KDE4 based applications should still be shipped even if they are unmaintained or they should be dropped and completely be replaced by their actively developed KF5 based releases.
And again, there’s also plenty of other alternatives besides XFCE, even KDE3 is still included.
Well if its anything that may aid is cinnamon, the current build of it in openSUSE is actually very good once tweaking is applied.
… and I also agree completely with this:
… and, of course, the following statement is very true:
It’s not a question if Plasma5 will replace KDE4 as default desktop in openSUSE, it’s only a question when this will happen.
My wish for it to be delayed – or, rather, for 4 to remain around as an option for awhile – has nothing at all to do with stability. I simply want to keep using some features that are dropped from 5, and that they stubbornly insist will not be returned.
@wollfi
Don’t mean to take this off topic but I just came back from doing a full try out of another distro (manjaro).
So to install K5 will I still need your repos or has Frameworks reached the point to stand on their own?
Not sure I fully understand your question.
You only need my repo if you want to install Plasma5 but want to keep KDE4’s desktop as well.
And that’s the case since the beginning, my packages are only branched from KDE:Frameworks5 and only contain necessary changes to install them to /opt/kf5/.
In 13.2 and Tumbleweed you don’t even have to add any additional repo to install Plasma5 (if you don’t care about KDE4’s desktop), as it is included in the distribution.
Regarding the applications, as most are not released yet in a KF5-based version, they are not available in the standard repos either. My repo contains a lot of pre-release versions (which I plan to switch to the stable ones, once they are released), but all those are available in KDE:Unstable:Extra as well (just not co-installable with their KDE4 versions).
Well, personally I would also like to see the KDE4 desktop being available (as option at least) for at least another openSUSE release.
But somebody has to maintain the packages and take care of bug reports…
I don’t know what will be decided, there has not been a definite statement yet whether KDE4 will be kept or not if Plasma5 becomes the default AFAIK.
I simply want to keep using some features that are dropped from 5, and that they stubbornly insist will not be returned.
What features do you mean?
Different widgets for each virtual desktop? (I think you mentioned this in some other thread…)
Well, there’s this KDE bug report, that has been closed as WONTFIX: 343246 – plasma 5 doesn't allow different wallpapers and widgets for each virtual desktop
But as that feature just implicitely creates separate activities for each desktop, you could probably just as well create and use separate activities in the first place (with only one virtual desktop). As I don’t use activities myself (and never used that “separate widgets” option either), I have no idea whether this is fully equal though. But it is possible to assign windows to certain activities just like you would move them to a certain desktop (via the context menu).
Having seperate sets of widgets (and different wallpapers) is exactly what activities are designed for in the first place.
For other features: the next openSUSE release is still at least 6 months away, this means 2 (maybe 3) further Plasma5 feature releases. So the stuff you miss might just get implemented till then… It might still be a good idea to mention missing things to KDE though (via bug reports e.g.), discussing them here won’t help much.
I hope it is, but as you mention, it requires a lot of work.
What features do you mean?
Different widgets for each virtual desktop? (I think you mentioned this in some other thread…)
Well, there’s this KDE bug report, that has been closed as WONTFIX: 343246 – plasma 5 doesn't allow different wallpapers and widgets for each virtual desktop
But as that feature just implicitely creates separate activities for each desktop, you could probably just as well create and use separate activities in the first place (with only one virtual desktop). As I don’t use activities myself (and never used that “separate widgets” option either), I have no idea whether this is fully equal though. But it is possible to assign windows to certain activities just like you would move them to a certain desktop (via the context menu).
Having seperate sets of widgets (and different wallpapers) is exactly what activities are designed for in the first place.
Yes, I am well aware of that WONTFIX bug report.
The Activity Switcher is poorly designed compared to the Desktop Switcher (The Cube) and is more cumbersome for switching. The Virtual Desktops already took care of the different activities, so really is a redundancy brought in because someone (or group of someones) came up with the idea and thought it was clever, and are too proud of their “baby” to allow us to have a choice between the methods.
The Activity fans should be able to use that, the Desktop fans should be able to use their favourite tool, in keeping with the spirit of OSS and Linux.
For other features: the next openSUSE release is still at least 6 months away, this means 2 (maybe 3) further Plasma5 feature releases. So the stuff you miss might just get implemented till then… It might still be a good idea to mention missing things to KDE though (via bug reports e.g.) …
Agreed on the other features, it is a matter of wait and see, and a matter of mentioning it on the KDE site.
discussing them here won’t help much.
No, unless someone here who is good with coding decides to build a work-around to keep that feature alive in 5 on openSUSE. But, again, that is a lot of work.
I am not expecting to get them (KDE gang) to change their mind with my comments here. Instead, I am lamenting the loss. Their attitude in this matter kind of reminds me of Apple and Microsoft, among others.
I have earlier wrote negative in a tread that took up “activites” (in 2014). What I have seen and test didn’t apply to me. I don’t like/understand the function.
But that is my opinion. I hope that I can still in my dual monitor setup have different backgrounds(wallpapers) changing by my setup. Have widgets doing the same.
Yes it’s a long way before Plasma 5 made default.
It’s always good to discuss. Mind the Google Chrome OS that drop the support for ext2-ext4 then reverted.
regards