I am not a fan of Gnome 3, and I find it gets in the way. However, the kind of corporate user that you describe is not the kind of user who will be bothered by Gnome 3. They might even like it.
It’s those users that corporations don’t want, who will be most bothered by Gnome 3.
Although I don’t like Gnome 3, I do applaud openSUSE for going with it. That is part of what a distro should do to keep up to date. If there was a bad decision made, then it was made by the Gnome developers, not by openSUSE.
Am 13.11.2011 19:16, schrieb nrickert:
>
> seasoned_geek;2403453 Wrote:
>> CORPORATE DESKTOPS rely heavily on placing icons on end user desktops SO
>> THEY ONLY DO WHAT THEY’RE TOLD.
> Put those desired icons on the favorites bar.
>
Or put them on the desktop, a corporate desktop is prepared by an admin.
It is a few mouse clicks to open the tweak tool and enable that the file
browser handles the desktop and you are back to one which has the usual
icons on it and you can add whichever you want in gnome 3, similar for
kde where you just switch to the folder view.
> I am not a fan of Gnome 3, and I find it gets in the way. However, the
> kind of corporate user that you describe is not the kind of user who
> will be bothered by Gnome 3. They might even like it.
> seasoned_geek;2403453 Wrote:
>> They don’t want people who know how to install stuff on their own and
>> they don’t want users poking around menus finding other things (like
>> games) they could be running.
> It’s those users that corporations don’t want, who will be most
> bothered by Gnome 3.
Again what is installed on a corporate desktop system will be decided by
a system admin (most probably deploying a cloned system) not by the
default install a distro performs.
–
PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram
> On 11/13/2011 09:54 AM, Cloddy wrote:
> >
> > That’s a sweeping generalisation, Larry. I assume you to mean that
> > the base system will work OK but don’t expect all the basic
> > applications to work. For instance, Pan and Gnucash were not fully
> > functional at RC2 stage and the bugs haven’t been reported as
> > solved yet. Still, there’s all of 3 days to go so not to worry.
>
> Of course it is a generalization, but I’m really disturbed with
> people that do not test until RC2 is released, and then demand that
> GM be delayed until their favorite program works. Where were they at
> MS5 when there was time to fix things. The rules are pretty clear
> that the things that are fixed between RC2 and GM are bugs that
> prevent installation, or cannot be fixed by an update.
As I pointed out weeks ago, the state of the pre-RC milestones was the
worst I can remember seeing and it made serious testing on my machines
really awkward and, at times, impossible. Even at RC2, the installation
problems hadn’t been fully cured. In most previous releases, I’d been
able to run an operational system - with proper safeguards - from quite
early milestones through to RC’s and final release. That’s still not
possible in 12.1’s current state.
>
> If you don’t realize it yet, the contents of the release were locked
> last Friday on 11/11/11. The time until the public release date is
> used for mirror propagation and publicity preparation. The contents
> of the iso’s will not change.
>
Yes thanks, I was aware of that. I was hoping, rather optimistically
I admit, that bug-fixes would be ready for installation from repos
directly after installation of 12.1.
I’ll install 12.1 later this week and continue testing whilst probably
sticking with 11.4 for operational use.
–
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 11.4 (64-bit); KDE 4.7.3; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nVidia driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306
> I’ll install 12.1 later this week and continue testing whilst probably
> sticking with 11.4 for operational use.
That’s a good plan. My laptop has pre-release 12.1 on it and that’s
where I’ve been doing my testing, but until pan works on 12.1, my main
system will stay at 11.4.
But pan is not a widely used application, so I certainly wouldn’t expect
it to hold up the planned release. The issue with pan seems to be that
it’s built for gtk2 and needs to be modified by the upstream project to
work properly with gtk3. I reported the issue to the upstream project
and added myself to the CC: list to the open bugs at bugzilla.novell.com
that’s a good way to track when the issues are resolved in openSUSE.
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:06:03 +0000, seasoned geek wrote:
> The Gnome version will never again be usable as a corporate desktop, so
> you already have a shrinking installed base with this release. Why?
> Whoever thought removing icons from the desktop was a good idea was
> obviously dropped on their head too many times as an infant.
For those environments, they can force fallback mode which allows you to
put icons on the desktop again.
Or they can install the gnome-shell dock extension, which puts the
favorites on the desktop in a very usable way. (That’s how I’m using it
myself).
Let’s be fair here; this was an upstream decision. Load up any Gnome 3 distro, and that’s what you’ll get. It is an easily fixable issue, however: Simply open up Advanced Settings, go to the Desktop tab, and switch on “Have file manager handle the desktop”. Problem solved. It was one of the first things I did when I installed 12.1 Beta on my laptop.
I will concede that the way to change Gnome Shell behaviors such as this isn’t obvious, and that does need to be changed; but you’ll have to bark at the Gnome guys about that.
Using “Advanced Settings” to have the file manager handle the desktop works fine, and certainly solves the problem raised by the original contributor. Perhaps having “Advanced Settings” appear under “System Settings” might make the option rather more obvious than restricting it to the grab-bag of “Applications”>“Other”. BTW, my computers are not particularly powerful, and I do get the impression that choosing this option causes a slight, but noticeable, reduction in the overall responsiveness of what is normally a reasonably clean and snappy GUI. Have any others had a similar experience? I’m not all that enthusiastic about Gnome 3 Shell, but it’s certainly preferable to Unity, and I think the openSUSE developers have chosen a sensible default configuration.
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:26:54 +0000, Cloddy wrote:
>
>> I’ll install 12.1 later this week and continue testing whilst probably
>> sticking with 11.4 for operational use.
>
> That’s a good plan. My laptop has pre-release 12.1 on it and that’s
> where I’ve been doing my testing, but until pan works on 12.1, my main
> system will stay at 11.4.
>
> But pan is not a widely used application, so I certainly wouldn’t expect
> it to hold up the planned release. The issue with pan seems to be that
> it’s built for gtk2 and needs to be modified by the upstream project to
> work properly with gtk3. I reported the issue to the upstream project
> and added myself to the CC: list to the open bugs at bugzilla.novell.com
> - that’s a good way to track when the issues are resolved in openSUSE.
You’re describing exactly my objections to 12.1: the system level is fine
after outstanding bugs were fixed but the UI is a show stopper. We use KDE
and the problems with migrating the PIM elements are manifold. I can’t get
a working mail or calendar app up - even a clean install w/o migrating the
existing data turns flakey rather quickly. I’ve arbitrarily made 12.1 taboo
for all our desktops outside a couple of test boxes.
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 22:42:22 +0000, Will Honea wrote:
> You’re describing exactly my objections to 12.1: the system level is
> fine after outstanding bugs were fixed but the UI is a show stopper. We
> use KDE and the problems with migrating the PIM elements are manifold.
> I can’t get a working mail or calendar app up - even a clean install w/o
> migrating the existing data turns flakey rather quickly. I’ve
> arbitrarily made 12.1 taboo for all our desktops outside a couple of
> test boxes.
Well, no, I’m not saying the UI is a show stopper. Indeed, the UI works
just fine. It’s one application I happen to use that doesn’t work as
expected, but the reason isn’t because of the openSUSE project, it’s
because the upstream project hasn’t adapted to gtk3 yet.
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:26:54 +0000, Cloddy wrote:
>
> > I’ll install 12.1 later this week and continue testing whilst
> > probably sticking with 11.4 for operational use.
>
> That’s a good plan. My laptop has pre-release 12.1 on it and that’s
> where I’ve been doing my testing, but until pan works on 12.1, my
> main system will stay at 11.4.
>
> But pan is not a widely used application, so I certainly wouldn’t
> expect it to hold up the planned release. The issue with pan seems
> to be that it’s built for gtk2 and needs to be modified by the
> upstream project to work properly with gtk3. I reported the issue to
> the upstream project and added myself to the CC: list to the open
> bugs at bugzilla.novell.com
> - that’s a good way to track when the issues are resolved in openSUSE.
>
I’ve a couple of bug reports in for Pan but agree that the release
shouldn’t be held up for it. Unfortunately for me, I’ve got a problem
with my alternate for Pan, Thunderbird, which is probably unrelated to
openSUSE. So I’ve just started on Claws, only to find that crashes in
12.1 (bugzilla report to come).
Apart from not having a reliable newsreader on 12.1, my main stumbling
block is gnucash.
I re-installed 12.1 last night, ran updates, and found I was now on
12.2 M0. Perhaps not such a bad idea for me to skip 12.1 and
concentrate on 12.2.
–
Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 11.4 (64-bit); KDE 4.7.2; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nVidia driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306
On 11/14/2011 02:30 AM, Cloddy wrote:
> I re-installed 12.1 last night, ran updates, and found I was now on
> 12.2 M0. Perhaps not such a bad idea for me to skip 12.1 and
> concentrate on 12.2.
I hope the smiley means that you are joking.
For anyone that does not know, the reason you have 12.2 M0 is that you have the
Factory repos enabled, not the 12.1 version. After 12.1 RC1, development was
forked with appropriate new packages going to the 12.1 while the untested stuff
went to Factory. Until 12.2 M3 or M4, the chances of enough of the system
working to actually boot will be quite low. I never use anything but VMs until
M5. When they fail, nothing lost.
> I re-installed 12.1 last night, ran updates, and found I was now on
> 12.2 M0. Perhaps not such a bad idea for me to skip 12.1 and
> concentrate on 12.2.
Here it will be more like keeping a copy of 12.1 updated to track the unique
issues I’m having while testing 12.2. Right now, KDE is pretty much the
problem and swapping the office staff is a non-starter. Those ladies get
downright vicious when I break something
The kind of user and corporate I’m talking about is EXACTLY who will not allow Gnome 3 to be installed. They do not want users even knowing a menu exists.
Gnome 3 was a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad decision which will cost them dearly in the corporate world.
That only “kinda works” in this release and it won’t work with the next round of Gnome patches where the flag is removed to enable any icons. Gnome has removed support for ALL icons and application shortcuts. Visit the Gnome forum.
According to the powers that be with Gnome, (yes, I went over and *****ed) the version of Gnome we have, which allows those icons to be enabled, is a bug. They have and are officially removing support for ALL icons and application shortcuts.
As far as I know there are no bug reports on 12.1 final, because it’s not released yet, but I dare say there will be plenty.
Your singular experience can’t be used as generalization and you should work with the devs by reporting bugs (If that’s what you have). It really does no use moaning here with a hyperbole of subjective comments, you’ll actually encourage the wrong kind of attention and have users telling you crawl back in to your cave.
