YaNDP Yet another Nvidia Driver Problem

I installed openSuSE 11.2 three days ago, the first time, and have been trying to get the nvidia video driver to work ever since. So far, no luck. I have a dual-boot system with Windows 2k (legacy programs) and the graphics card works fine there, so the problem isn’t hardware related. The nv driver also works under 11.2, but not well.

The graphics card is a GeForce 6200, and the computer is an old Tyan Thunder S2885 with dual Opteron processors. I’m in 64 bit mode for the Linux install.

I’ve tried installing the video drivers by:

Doing a fresh install, loading in the nvidia repository, then doing online update. The two nvidia drivers were loaded (nvidia-gfxG02-kmp-desktop and x11-video-nvidiaG02), but when I tried to reboot I end up with a blank screen and no sync to the monitor (Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751 CRT type). Rebooting in safe mode brings up the nv driver, which works.

Doing a fresh install, doing online update, then loading in the nvidia repository, refreshing it, and installing the same two RPMs . . . with the same result.

Doing a fresh install and using the “one click” install from this web site. Same result.

Doing a fresh install, doing online update, selecting the pattern “Linux Kernel Development” and installing it, downloading the Nvidia installer NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-190.53-pkg2.run and installing it. Same result.

Same as above, but then using Sax2 -r -m 0=nvidia, even though Sax is depreciated. Same result.

I’ve tried modprobe nvidia. Nothing.

Over the last two days I’ve probably tried several other iterations as well, and forgot them, but nothing worked, it’s always the same result.

Another weirdness, when I have YaST do “Hardware Information” it has no trouble identifying the monitor a getting it’s info, but when I click the Display icon on the panel it tells me that it can’t identify the monitor.

Here’s the basic system info:


Directory: /home/BillyDoc/Desktop
Tue Feb 16 09:21:23 CST 2010
BillyDoc@linux-k7w3:~/Desktop> lsmod | grep nvidia
nvidia               9647368  0 
BillyDoc@linux-k7w3:~/Desktop> su
Password: 
linux-k7w3:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # hwinfo --gfxcard
38: PCI(AGP) 500.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA)        
  [Created at pci.318]
  UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_10de_221
  Unique ID: Ddhb.goBz6ghZ3n5
  Parent ID: dtXw.we+gVdRFoD9
  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:04/0000:04:01.0/0000:05:00.0
  SysFS BusID: 0000:05:00.0
  Hardware Class: graphics card
  Model: "nVidia GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  Vendor: pci 0x10de "nVidia Corporation"
  Device: pci 0x0221 "GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  SubVendor: pci 0x3842 "eVga.com. Corp."
  SubDevice: pci 0xa403 
  Revision: 0xa1
  Driver: "nvidia"
  Driver Modules: "nvidia"
  Memory Range: 0xfd000000-0xfdffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xc0000000-0xdfffffff (rw,prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfc000000-0xfcffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfeae0000-0xfeafffff (ro,prefetchable,disabled)
  IRQ: 16 (no events)
  I/O Ports: 0x3c0-0x3df (rw)
  Module Alias: "pci:v000010DEd00000221sv00003842sd0000A403bc03sc00i00"
  Driver Info #0:
    XFree86 v4 Server Module: nv
  Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
  Attached to: #37 (PCI bridge)

Primary display adapter: #38
linux-k7w3:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # rpm -qa | grep kernel
kernel-firmware-20090821-4.1.noarch
kernel-desktop-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
linux-k7w3:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # exit
exit
BillyDoc@linux-k7w3:~/Desktop> 


But look at the EE line here:



Directory: /home/BillyDoc/Desktop
Tue Feb 16 10:01:41 CST 2010
BillyDoc@linux-k7w3:~/Desktop> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep driver
	X.Org XInput driver : 4.0
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vmware_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/cirrus_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/fbdev_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vesa_drv.so
(II) VMWARE: driver for VMware SVGA: vmware0405, vmware0710
(II) CIRRUS: driver for Cirrus chipsets: CLGD5430, CLGD5434-4, CLGD5434-8,
(II) FBDEV: driver for framebuffer: fbdev
(II) VESA: driver for VESA chipsets: vesa
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vmware_drv.so
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/cirrus_drv.so
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vesa_drv.so
(EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)
	ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 4.0
BillyDoc@linux-k7w3:~/Desktop> 



I’m definitely a novice to this sort of thing, and at this point I haven’t a clue what’s going on. It looks like the nvidia driver get’s installed alright, but X simply doesn’t know it’s there. Oh, and another thing. When I go into YaST to look for the “Graphics Card and Monitor” program . . . it’s missing! I assume this is because Sax is depreciated, but what’s the substitute?

Does anyone have any ideas? I don’t know what else to try.

Thanks!

Bill

Some 6200 cards seem to be a problem. Try an earlier driver down loaded from NVIDIA using the manual install method.

I don’t see the kernel-source rpm listed in your output. It is needed to build the driver and insert the module.

As gogalthorp suggested, you probably should go back a level or more until you get a working driver.

Just remember to add the kernel-source

http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/rpm/noarch/kernel-source-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.noarch.rpm

and possibly the kernel-devel

http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/rpm/x86_64/kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64.rpm

Thanks for the responses!

The listings above are from a new install without the Linux Kernel Development pattern installed, which is why some of the kernels aren’t there. I’m desperate enough to try just about anything.

But I’ve got some hope now! When I went to the Nvidia site to look in their “Beta and Archived drivers” section, at the top of the list was one with a SuSE icon next to it, 173.14.25 dated February 11th of this year. This looks promising!

I’ll do a clean install with the Kernel Development pattern as well as the other updates and give it a try! It’s going to take me a couple of hours, but I’ll be back with a report then.

Thanks to you both!

Bill

You shouldn’t need to do a fresh install, you just need to install the kernel-source.

The kernel development pattern is a bit of over kill. All you need is the kernel-source package for your running kernel.

Well, well . . . something is different now. I just did a new install and ran the online update. After that was done there was the usual message saying “at least one package needed a re-boot.” So, I re-booted. After this reboot the screen resolution dropped from about 1600 x 1200 (which was what it had always been) to a max of 800 x 600! This is definitely new, and seems to correlate with my new online update. I then did the “Linux Kernel Development” pattern. Just to get a record at this point I did the following tests:



Directory: /home/BillyDoc/Desktop
Tue Feb 16 14:11:33 CST 2010
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> lsmod | grep nvidia
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> su
Password: 
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # hwinfo --gfxcard
38: PCI(AGP) 500.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA)        
  [Created at pci.318]
  UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_10de_221
  Unique ID: Ddhb.goBz6ghZ3n5
  Parent ID: dtXw.we+gVdRFoD9
  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:04/0000:04:01.0/0000:05:00.0
  SysFS BusID: 0000:05:00.0
  Hardware Class: graphics card
  Model: "nVidia GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  Vendor: pci 0x10de "nVidia Corporation"
  Device: pci 0x0221 "GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  SubVendor: pci 0x3842 "eVga.com. Corp."
  SubDevice: pci 0xa403 
  Revision: 0xa1
  Memory Range: 0xfd000000-0xfdffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xc0000000-0xdfffffff (rw,prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfc000000-0xfcffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfeae0000-0xfeafffff (ro,prefetchable,disabled)
  IRQ: 11 (no events)
  I/O Ports: 0x3c0-0x3df (rw)
  Module Alias: "pci:v000010DEd00000221sv00003842sd0000A403bc03sc00i00"
  Driver Info #0:
    XFree86 v4 Server Module: nv
  Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
  Attached to: #37 (PCI bridge)

Primary display adapter: #38
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # rpm -qa | grep kernel
linux-kernel-headers-2.6.31-3.4.noarch
kernel-firmware-20090821-4.1.noarch
kernel-xen-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-default-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
patterns-openSUSE-devel_kernel-11.2-20.22.1.x86_64
kernel-source-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.noarch
kernel-debug-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-desktop-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-syms-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # 


OK, I did the install, but unfortunately I still have the same blank screen in “normal” boot mode. When I boot in “failsafe” mode, though, now I have the full 1600 x 1200 resolution back.

Here’s the basic data:



Directory: /home/BillyDoc/Desktop
Tue Feb 16 14:33:43 CST 2010
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> lsmod | grep nvidia
nvidia               8117296  0 
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> su
Password: 
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # hwinfo --gfxcard
38: PCI(AGP) 500.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA)        
  [Created at pci.318]
  UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_10de_221
  Unique ID: Ddhb.goBz6ghZ3n5
  Parent ID: dtXw.we+gVdRFoD9
  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:04/0000:04:01.0/0000:05:00.0
  SysFS BusID: 0000:05:00.0
  Hardware Class: graphics card
  Model: "nVidia GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  Vendor: pci 0x10de "nVidia Corporation"
  Device: pci 0x0221 "GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  SubVendor: pci 0x3842 "eVga.com. Corp."
  SubDevice: pci 0xa403 
  Revision: 0xa1
  Driver: "nvidia"
  Driver Modules: "nvidia"
  Memory Range: 0xfd000000-0xfdffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xc0000000-0xdfffffff (rw,prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfc000000-0xfcffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfeae0000-0xfeafffff (ro,prefetchable,disabled)
  IRQ: 16 (no events)
  I/O Ports: 0x3c0-0x3df (rw)
  Module Alias: "pci:v000010DEd00000221sv00003842sd0000A403bc03sc00i00"
  Driver Info #0:
    XFree86 v4 Server Module: nv
  Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
  Attached to: #37 (PCI bridge)

Primary display adapter: #38
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # rpm -qa | grep kernel
linux-kernel-headers-2.6.31-3.4.noarch
kernel-firmware-20090821-4.1.noarch
kernel-xen-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-default-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
patterns-openSUSE-devel_kernel-11.2-20.22.1.x86_64
kernel-source-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.noarch
kernel-debug-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-desktop-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-syms-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # exit
exit
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep driver
	X.Org XInput driver : 4.0
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vmware_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/cirrus_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/fbdev_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vesa_drv.so
(II) VMWARE: driver for VMware SVGA: vmware0405, vmware0710
(II) CIRRUS: driver for Cirrus chipsets: CLGD5430, CLGD5434-4, CLGD5434-8,
(II) FBDEV: driver for framebuffer: fbdev
(II) VESA: driver for VESA chipsets: vesa
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vmware_drv.so
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/cirrus_drv.so
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vesa_drv.so
(EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)
	ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 4.0
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> 


I just saw your posts, and yes the Kernel pattern is a bit of overkill, but if it works I want the extra stuff for other things anyway. Plus, I’m trying to mix actual work with this debugging.

Now I’m wondering if I should go back and try a simple YaST install as before, since something I updated seems to be different … well, why not. That won’t take long.

Back soon!

Bill

You can fool around with the repository versions if you want but there are known problems with certain of the early 6200 cards. Try an earlier version of the driver from the NVIDIA site.

Have you tried compiling the nvidia driver? I know I haven’t been able to use the suse repository because nvidia hasn’t gotten a driver for my specific card (GT240), but I downloaded the driver for the GT 250 and get limited usage. You may just need to compile the driver with your version kernel-headers.

Well, I thought I WAS trying an earlier version, since it had a lower number (173.14.25 v. 190.53) but I still had the same result.

Anyway, I just re-tried the YaST approach, and also got the same result. Here’s the data, if it does any good:



Directory: /home/BillyDoc/Desktop
Tue Feb 16 15:01:59 CST 2010
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> lsmod | grep nvidia
nvidia               9647368  0 
BillyDoc@linux-kumv:~/Desktop> su
Password: 
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # hwinfo --gfxcard
38: PCI(AGP) 500.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA)        
  [Created at pci.318]
  UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_10de_221
  Unique ID: Ddhb.goBz6ghZ3n5
  Parent ID: dtXw.we+gVdRFoD9
  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:04/0000:04:01.0/0000:05:00.0
  SysFS BusID: 0000:05:00.0
  Hardware Class: graphics card
  Model: "nVidia GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  Vendor: pci 0x10de "nVidia Corporation"
  Device: pci 0x0221 "GeForce 6200 (0x0221)"
  SubVendor: pci 0x3842 "eVga.com. Corp."
  SubDevice: pci 0xa403 
  Revision: 0xa1
  Driver: "nvidia"
  Driver Modules: "nvidia"
  Memory Range: 0xfd000000-0xfdffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xc0000000-0xdfffffff (rw,prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfc000000-0xfcffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0xfeae0000-0xfeafffff (ro,prefetchable,disabled)
  IRQ: 16 (no events)
  I/O Ports: 0x3c0-0x3df (rw)
  Module Alias: "pci:v000010DEd00000221sv00003842sd0000A403bc03sc00i00"
  Driver Info #0:
    XFree86 v4 Server Module: nv
  Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
  Attached to: #37 (PCI bridge)

Primary display adapter: #38
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # rpm -qa | grep kernel
linux-kernel-headers-2.6.31-3.4.noarch
kernel-firmware-20090821-4.1.noarch
kernel-xen-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-default-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
patterns-openSUSE-devel_kernel-11.2-20.22.1.x86_64
kernel-source-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.noarch
kernel-debug-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-desktop-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-desktop-devel-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
kernel-syms-2.6.31.12-0.1.1.x86_64
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep driver
	X.Org XInput driver : 4.0
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vmware_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/cirrus_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/fbdev_drv.so
(II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vesa_drv.so
(II) VMWARE: driver for VMware SVGA: vmware0405, vmware0710
(II) CIRRUS: driver for Cirrus chipsets: CLGD5430, CLGD5434-4, CLGD5434-8,
(II) FBDEV: driver for framebuffer: fbdev
(II) VESA: driver for VESA chipsets: vesa
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vmware_drv.so
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/cirrus_drv.so
(II) Unloading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules//drivers/vesa_drv.so
(EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)
	ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 4.0
linux-kumv:/home/BillyDoc/Desktop # 


I really don’t think it’s a driver issue. In every case when I do the “cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep driver” instruction I get the “Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found” response. It isn’t acting like the driver doesn’t work, it’s acting like the driver isn’t available. Is there any way to track down why this might be happening?

Thanks again for your help. I couldn’t begin to do this without it!

Bill

Keep it simple, try removing the kernels that you don’t need for now and just get it working with one kerenl. Try keeping kernel-desktop, and kernel source. Remove (rpm -e) kernel-default, kernel-debug, kernel-xen. You can add them back later if you need to.

Get the nvidia driver and boot to the command line, init 3. Run the nvidia binary to install the driver into the running kernel. Reboot the machine and make sure you’re booting with the same kernel you just installed the driver with.

If you add other kernels, you’ll have to do the driver build for each one.

Hi udaman,

When I just did the install above I did a ctl-alt-F1 to get out of X from “failsafe mode” and then “init 3” to shut X down. It was then that I did the install, using "sh NV(tab) -q after cd-ing to the right directory. Wouldn’t that have built drivers for all the available kernels? Or, at least the kernel that happened to be in use? If so, then it didn’t work. There was nothing in the Nvidia installer about picking kernels, it just did it’s thing and ended with an “OK” button. After it finished and I got back to the console I did a “init 5” and when that seemed to finish re-booted.

At the moment I’m downloading a completely different distribution (CentOS) to install and see how the video driver fairs with that. That way I think I can eliminate the hardware and driver part of the problem. It occurred to me that just because the graphics card and driver work in 32 bit Windows doesn’t necessarily mean that all the hardware is OK, since I’m in 64 bit mode with openSuSE.

I’m at work now, and it’s getting late here (Florida, USA) so I’d better get on home or the wife will be grumpy. I’ll try the CentOS tomorrow.

Thanks for your input!

Bill

It only build the driver for the kernel that is running at the time, so you’ll need to do it each time you install another kernel. Although when I upgraded to my latest kernel, the upgrade built the nvidia driver for the new kernel automatically.

I’m using a GeForce 7300, and I’ve had no problem with the latest Nvidia driver (190.53)

Sorry it didn’t work out for you. I’ve used CentOS 5.1 and it’s a nice version of Linux, though it gave me some problems, too. Good luck.

…and there certain people frequently claim that the Ati drivers would be so bad, but the nVidia drivers look clearly worse when I look at stuff like this rotfl!
I’m really glad I don’t have a nVidia card, but instead a 4870 which is always working smoothly with the Ati drivers, up to the most current one, 10.1 :slight_smile:

Hope things work out for you on CentOS, BillyDoc. If not, consider buying an Ati card :wink:

All video card have unique problems, I tried using an ATI video card that I tried and tried, but could not get the 3D to work properly. I bought an Nvidia card and had the same problem BillyDoc is having. I downloaded the latest driver from NVidia website and compiled with current kernel and it has worked perfectly ever since. NVidia, in my opinion, works much better than ATI, just my opinion. Everyone is entitled to that. If ATI has worked better for you, then good for you.

As for the problem that BillyDoc is having, I tried using several different distrobutions also. I found that I had the same problem with all of them. You’ll probably have to deal with this problem no matter what distrobution you use. Good luck with it, You can always come back here if you find you still need help.

Several people of reported problems with certain 6300 versions, not all 6300’s. Note there were several. I run a 6800 and have never had a driver problem. Then look at all the problems people have with ATI. And ATI recently total dropping support for a bunch of their older cards. But ATI has done some to support open source versions but look how that worked out with the recent black screen of ATI death seen in 11.2

Remove repo installed driver first.
Then rename/remove /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Then install driver through downloaded installer
DO NOT RUN sax2

Reboot, and see if it works.

No time to explain all this.

I would say in 70 to 80% of the cases (the ones I experienced myself and the ones users reported here)

You’ll probably have to deal with this problem no matter what distrobution you use. Good luck with it, You can always come back here if you find you still need help.

Yes and no … If a specific model isn’t supported by a specific driver, it’s not going to be better with another distro. As for nvidia cards …

  • install Ubuntu: it will start with nv and ask you the first time you log in if you want to install the proprietary driver. It works then in most cases.

  • install Fedora: it will install the nouveau driver, which either supports other models or more likely makes things worse. You can compile the nvidia module, but it won’t work until you blacklist nouveau (can be done with kernel parameter)

  • install Mandriva: it will install the nvidia driver directly. Yep! It does that.

  • install Gentoo: you will be able to emerge (=compile) the nvidia driver without having to worry about repositories, GPG keys and such things .

  • install openSUSE: You’ll end up asking in this forum. But it’s a cool place isn’t it. :wink:

Booting in vga mode is always worth a try. With older (older than yours) nvidia models, it is the only way to get X to start while using the nvidia driver (nv doesn’t have that problem).

AFAIK it affects only older models using the legacy nvidia driver (x11-video-nvidia-96.43.11, not nvidiaG01 or nvidiaG02).

Thanks Knurpht, but I think I did one better . . . I started with a fresh install and installed the downloaded driver. It didn’t work.

I haven’t had a chance to play with this today, got swamped with work. I hope to get back to it tomorrow. I definitely appreciate all your comments.

Wish I didn’t have to work for a living . . oh, sorry, four-letter curse word just slipped out . . .

Bill

Well, I haven’t been able to get past this issue and I’m beginning to suspect a problem on my motherboard. It’s six or seven years old now, using two of the original “Sledgehammer” (240) Opteron processors. It’s been a hell of a good machine! But little problems have been cropping up as well. So, I’ve decided to upgrade and try again with new equipment.

I want to thank everyone for their input! I always learn alot from you guys when I have a problem. More than you would know by my posts because I usually solve the odd issue just by reading what others have asked. And one of the reasons I like openSuSE so much is the fact that there are rarely problems. I started with 10.2, and have never gone back. On the odd occasions when I get exposed to things like Vista . . . I am so glad I made the transition!

And I’m more than a little excited at the prospect of a new machine. I have to decide what to get, but I think I’m going to end up with a dual Xeon Tyan board. The prices have dropped considerably, and that will be a considerable leap in speed for me! I can hardly wait.

Thanks again!

Bill