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1

You would think with a corporation in size and scale as micro$oft that they would produce a product that would be absolutely fantastic.

Windows 7 is their best to date as far as a modern OS goes (my opinion).

But we Linux nerds have the choice and freedom to really customize our environments.

Im a recent convert to linux. I really like OpenSuSE for some reason. Everyone I know worships ubuntu. Ubuntu is great but with a backing like Novell, I’ll stay with something like this.

Oh by the way, I hate KDE.

Whos with me.

2

Hi
I also see we (MIssissippi) managed to score $40 million from them;
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/16/devils-in-details-of-mississippi-02/

“The state is getting some breathing room from a $40 million antitrust
lawsuit settlement with Microsoft. The lawsuit alleged Microsoft caused
customers to pay more for software than they would have had there been
competition.”

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.23-0.1-default
up 3 days 10:10, 2 users, load average: 0.20, 0.12, 0.17
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 185.18.14

3

Actually Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, a company that might possibly surpass Novell in the near future as a major Linux backer.
I dont focus on companies though, I focus on community and I think there is where Ubuntu is a tad better at.
Not dissing here though, but I have seen a lot of good help on the Ubuntu forums thats where most of the praise comes from.
I like Ubuntu and OpenSuse equally and both have a place in the linux market.

4

Time will tell :wink: That fat guy at M$ once said Vista is the best OS in this planet. Also, he said that it is the most secure OS :wink:

What is your experience with KDE to say so?

5

On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 00:26 +0000, thirdm00n wrote:
> You would think with a corporation in size and scale as micro$oft that
> they would produce a product that would be absolutely fantastic.
>
> Windows 7 is their best to date as far as a modern OS goes (my
> opinion).

I don’t see anything. In fact, I know for sure that Vista lacks
FEATURES that are even in XP (weird, I know). My views of the 7 beta
didn’t change my opinion on that. It seems to be a really, really,
really fat XP. openSUSE is huge… but it actually comes with a ton of
software. Why is Vista/7 so large? I have NO idea.

>
> But we Linux nerds have the choice and freedom to really customize our
> environments.

Absolutely. It is a strength, though some might find that to be a
weakness.

>
> Im a recent convert to linux. I really like OpenSuSE for some reason.
> Everyone I know worships ubuntu. Ubuntu is great but with a backing like
> Novell, I’ll stay with something like this.

Ubuntu is a tight bunch of newbies taking chances with something they do
not fully understand. They do make things interesting… they are fun
to watch. They make a lot of mistakes… but nobody cares because they
cater to their peers… who don’t do anything fancy anyhow.

>
> Oh by the way, I hate KDE.

I like KDE3. I just wish that KDE4 would have looked at KDE3 just a
bit. KDE4 is very different… not sure what to think. It might have
potential, but the current implementation hides that potential.

Gnome has greatly improved. But it’s still a far cry from KDE3.

Gnome < KDE4 < KDE3

At least for me right now. Some of my friends now view it as:

KDE4 < Gnome < KDE3 (which is dead)

So they have converted from KDE to Gnome… which I think is sad.
Just my opinion.

6

On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 04:00 +0000, cjcox wrote:
…
> Gnome has greatly improved. But it’s still a far cry from KDE3.
>
> Gnome < KDE4 < KDE3
>
> At least for me right now. Some of my friends now view it as:
>
> KDE4 < Gnome < KDE3 (which is dead)
>
> So they have converted from KDE to Gnome… which I think is sad.
> Just my opinion.

Let me also add that a considerable number BECAUSE of the weirdness of
KDE4, have converted away from openSUSE to Ubuntu. And I can see their
point. I know that’s not openSUSE’s fault, they don’t have any say over
the KDE team. The KDE sold us the world and delivered us a pebble and
threw away the rock.

7

And we are answering this post…WHY?
Spreading F.U.D. and possible spam

8

I think you’re right on target.
Hmnnnnnnnnn! I’m with windows on a ten hours minimum daily working on a big project. Looks sad but it is the only place where I can do complicated architectural plans and 3-dimensional renderings quickly.:rolleyes:

9

How many CAD packages under Linux are you familiar with?
LUnIx . . . CAD & Linux: Linux CAD Links

10

My opinion :slight_smile:
KDE4 < KDE3 < KDE4.3Beta2
Really happy now :slight_smile:

11

In old threads I had pointed to some cad lookers cad for linux.
The one for windows is the [size=]“beast”[/size] out there and universally being used that we can exchange ideas electronically w/out hitch.
At the age of more than half a century I am getting tired to explore and familiarize a new cad program. I just want to stick now to where I excel.:smile:

12

Most widely used drawing file format are DWG/DFX files and free viewer (also simple manipulations too) is available under Linux. In an organization, not everyone does the design/drawing work but a lot of people want to view them.
I don’t have Windo$ or AutoCAD, but I received files from my architect who is designing my house. I did view that on my Linux machine.

13

I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t care much for Ubuntu’s primary choice of Gnome but if I were to recommend a choice to a Linux beginner it would be Ubuntu. It works out of the box. Suse on the other hand is more versatile and better suited to my purposes. I still use KDE 3.5.

My major objection to both OS’es is that too much emphasis is put on CPU intensive eye candy and the relentless drive to look like Windoze or Mac so as to entice users to switch. This is counter-productive in my opinion. In the end all OS’es will look alike and there will be little reason to switch.

14

Right, whatever…
Hey I used Ubuntu for almost 3 years out of the 5 years I have used Linux, the Ubuntu community is far more knowledgeable then you think it is.
Heck I got more help from the Ubuntu forums then I got from most other forums and I myself have done my best to help out too.
Its why I used Ubuntu for so long, sure its been a mixed experience for me but Ubuntu has served me better then most distros, OpenSuse included (well versions before Suse 10, the 9 series was not that great)

Actually right now I would say to new users to use Gnome instead of KDE, KDE4 is promising and has a lot of fancy looks but its no KDE3 or Gnome in terms of stability and functionality.
But KDE3 is being left in the dust and in my opinion without any good reason, I think all the major distros that replaced KDE3 with KDE4 were foolish to rush into it, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Opensuse all basically dropped the stable and reliable KDE3 for the highly experimental and sometimes unstable KDE4.

As for the drive for a windows or OSX like look, I think Ubuntu’s Mark Shuttleworth got it right by saying that Linux in general does need fancy eye candy.
But mainly to attract new and potential users.
Mind you I am not 100% in favor of the practice but I see where making linux look more visually appealing will pay off.
The first thing you see on a good majority of Linux forums is questions like “How can I make (insert distro here) look like (insert other os here)”
Of course it gets redundant but then again it all goes down to familiarity.
When you use something like OSX or windows for so long you would want your next system to be similar, I know thats how I was when I first started using Linux.
When I started using Linux I used windows XP like most people back then, so when I started using linux I looked for things that were similar to XP.
Mepis Linux at the time was quite XP like, I had to set very little on it to make it work the way I wanted it to.
of coruse you are not going to find something exactly like Windows or OSX unless you actually use Windows or OSX, but still familiarity helps.

15

I think part of the reason for the “How do I make the cube work?” chorus is simply that it’s visible. If you’re new to a system - or new to technical systems generally, you poke around to understand them using the bits that you recognise, and they’ll necessarily be on the surface. After my first install, I started mucking around with the cube. I didn’t think “Right! I’ll set up some cronjobs for housekeeping.” because I had precisely no idea what a cronjob was.

As for Ubuntu, I have to admit I’m siding somewhat on the side of cjcox here, with qualifications. I think in some sense Ubuntu has a great community; I use it, and I wish it success. But it does have appalling forums, in the sense that such a ridiculously large number of posts go unanswered, or receive unsatisfactory answers. Don’t believe me? Just go look; these are from a week ago, so it’s not like nobody’s had the chance. Find any distro (still in development) in which getting a response to a sensible question is more hit and miss, and I’ll eat my netbook. Equally, the way they interact with developers is just stupid. Buglists saying “Me too! Fix this please! +1! WHY ISN’t thIS FIXES LOL!!!1!” make an open source developer, even if he has the stamina to keep writing open source, no longer read the buglists.

This can only be blamed on the forum staff - presumably the high level ones. You reap what you sow, and if you try to create an atmosphere in which there are no stupid questions, eventually all you’ll be able to hear are stupid questions. You don’t have to scream “RTFM newb!” at people to tell them that there are simple rules of forum etiquette, such as searching before posting, that duplicates will be mercilessly merged, and that repeat offenders will be infracted. And that you DON’T write “I demand that you fix this!” on the freaking buglists.

Unless they do this, they will drive developers away from users, and users away from linux. If that had been my first impression of it, I’d have thought “These people are well meaning! But there are so many problems nobody knows how to fix - I guess the OS is just broken.” They may well still lure more people in than they spit out, but I’m afraid they have a stark choice anyway; be superseded by, or become, a disto that combines their reputation for ease of use with more of an air of competence.

[/rant]

16

I agree with Confuseling. Ubuntu forums are huge but OpenSUSE forum is more helpful. Where Ubuntu scores for the newbie is the large numbers of blogs dedicated to it, many of which have very helpful stuff.
For many months, Ubuntu was the only thing that worked for me properly, and it’s still on my laptops. But on my main desktop, I now much prefer OpenSUSE, and what’s more, KDE 4.2 has been a revelation to me: never liked 3.5 and preferred Gnome, but now KDE4 is finally delivering on its promises and in my view at least the most innovative DE out there (never thought I’d say this a few weeks ago…).

17

I’m with you

Oh by the way, I hate KDE.

Whos with me.

I’m NOT with you :wink:

18

On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 12:26 +0000, gminnerup wrote:
> I agree with Confuseling. Ubuntu forums are huge but OpenSUSE forum is
> more helpful. Where Ubuntu scores for the newbie is the large numbers of
> blogs dedicated to it, many of which have very helpful stuff.
> For many months, Ubuntu was the only thing that worked for me properly,
> and it’s still on my laptops. But on my main desktop, I now much prefer
> OpenSUSE, and what’s more, KDE 4.2 has been a revelation to me: never
> liked 3.5 and preferred Gnome, but now KDE4 is finally delivering on its
> promises and in my view at least the most innovative DE out there (never
> thought I’d say this a few weeks ago…).

For the simple (very simple) and mundane (which in all fairness
describes the desktop user), Ubuntu does ok. But as soon as a bit of
complexity creeps in… forget about it.

With that said, openSUSE doesn’t make the assumptions (some are REALLY
bad) that Ubuntu makes, and so it appears to more complex and
occasionally appears to “not work” as far as a Windows user is concerned
(in other words, openSUSE can try to be too smart/right… and that CAN
get in the way for the novice user).

And with that said, openSUSE today, in some ways has started making some
of those bad assumptions… which might increase its popularity (??)
while frustrating the experienced.

19

On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 07:16 +0000, syampillai wrote:
…
> My opinion :slight_smile:
> KDE4 < KDE3 < KDE4.3Beta2
> Really happy now :slight_smile:

Ideally, that’s the direction I’m truly hoping for as well.

An example of something that I’ll never see work right:

Right now I administrate a ton of different platforms, local and remote.

I can use NX to put desktops of different platforms, including my “true”
desktop, on faces of the proverbial “cube” (or more depending on how
many faces your “cube” has, I like the cylinder deformation in compiz).
So using KDE3 + compiz, it’s trivial to spin the cube by click-drag or
wheel spin on the edges to move around the desktops, etc. The trick is
to use the window manager fullscreen instead of NX (this avoids other
issues with suspension and reconnection on different resolution displays
as well). None of this works right with KDE4.

Arguably, since this is KDE3 + compiz, the fact that what I do works so
well, is probably just by chance and because of the layering and
technique used. But since pretty much none of this works, not even in a
simple case, on KDE4, it’s very frustrating. I’ve been doing the KDE3 +
compiz + NX things for years… it’s like going backwards a couple of
years for me to let this go.

Most won’t care… most barely run a single machine… oh well.

20

> Oh by the way, I hate KDE.

I love KDE. Gnome is a waste of code.
HTH.