Windows Guy Tries Open Suse 11

Quote:

“I’m a Windows Guy. I work on a Windows network for a living. I’ve been a network engineer for over a decade. It’s not that I’m opposed to Linux or OSX, I’m just more familiar with XP and Vista so I tend to use it for everything. Some of you might be laughing already, but I like Windows. It gets the job done for me and for millions of other people. It’s fairly easy to use, fairly easy to upgrade with new hard ware, there is a plethora of software and I can do all the things I want to do on it.”

Windows Guy Tries Open Suse 11 at 10 Minute Tech

> ‘Windows Guy Tries Open Suse 11 at 10 Minute Tech’
> (http://www.10minutetech.net/?p=3)

at first i thought it was just another stooge from Redmond wanting to
‘trash talk’ SUSE…may be but, i found several of his slams
justified…

though i left Windows[tm] in '95 for OS/2, then moved to Linux early
in this century, and to SUSE with 9.something and i agree it should
be easier to:

  • get through the partitioner section of the install

  • set up video (with any/all chip sets)

  • break the law (and watch/listen to all media available)

  • eject the CD/DVD every time

  • see/mount/use ALL installed/connected drives

  • VPN to work (more and more folks are)

personally, i wish the coders/hackers would put more effort into
those things EVEN at the expense of working less on the fluff and eye
candy…


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via NNTP, Thunderbird 2.0.0.14, KDE
3.5.7, SUSE Linux 10.3, 2.6.22.18-0.2-default #1 SMP i686 athlon

i vote for this:
>
> - get through the partitioner section of the install
>

cannot argue more.

auto-select disk is dangerous. There is a time that i got
bored, and reinstall my compie. and when go through installation
i click “Next”,“Next”, and “Next” and my h0m3 partition is gone!

bad SUSE, bad!

Nice writeup.
Pity you lucked out and chose the experimental KDE4. KDE3.5.9 is muck better. IMHO it was a bad strategic mistake not to label it in big red letters: not for new users.

I agree, KDE 4 in openSUSE 11 could have done with stronger warnings of impending doom;)

> IMHO it was a bad strategic mistake not to label it in big red
> letters: not for new users.

not for new users?

no, i think it should have been impossible for new (to Linux) users
to even FIND and install…

well, if not impossible, it should be as hard to find and install as
(say) mc…


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via NNTP, Thunderbird 2.0.0.14, KDE
3.5.7, SUSE Linux 10.3, 2.6.22.18-0.2-default #1 SMP i686 athlon

That’s true, but then we’ve been through the evils of KDE4.0 on many threads here, let’s not re-hash it. This article is pretty good, and I think the developers should take note of it.

OTOH, there was a thread floating around the forum a couple of weeks ago about reworking the partitioner for 11.1, so maybe this is nothing new to them.

rv77ax wrote:
> i vote for this:
>>
>> - get through the partitioner section of the install
>>
>
> cannot argue more.
>
> auto-select disk is dangerous. There is a time that i got
> bored, and reinstall my compie. and when go through installation
> i click “Next”,“Next”, and “Next” and my h0m3 partition is gone!
>
> bad SUSE, bad!
Bad habits from the windows world it seems.

Yes your right…for the record though I actually like KDE 4, many don’t seemed to have been fully aware of what they were installing though.

I’ll leave it at that.

I have read the article… until I got bored.

In my opinion he is not doing a fair comparison.

To start with…

Ah, the partitioning screen. Now it gets confusing. I have to choose where i want to install. Am I creating a partition or editing a partition or taking the defaults? I don’t want to screw up my system, so I’m a bit confused. Amazing how you can make the Time Zone map so pretty but make this so confusing. Priorities people. (for the record, I’m not comparing this to Vista, though their partitioner is easy, but rather to Mandriva and Ubuntu which I will discuss in future articles).

Has he ever tried to install Windows (any version) along with an other (existing) OS? It is just an impossible task.

Then…

The next screen is pretty easy. I need to create a new user. I notice that I have the choice here of using this password as the system administrator password. That’s a cool option. I need t find out what happens if I uncheck that, but for now I’m leaving it alone. I also have an option here to automatically login. I’m not a fan of this, but I’m going to leave the defaults and press forward.

And

A few more minutes and I’m greeted with the startup screen. It has indeed auto-logged in. That has to change. For most people that’s a good option but I like keeping my desktop secure.

He chooses same password for both users and yet he makes claims about security. The auto-login screen is as optional (true by default but you get a fine warning) as the same-password thingy.

The funny thing is that both options are there because of the “windows guys”. I hope both options will get removed some day, or at least turned off by default.
The partioner is clear and easy enough. No need to change it. If someone is not able to understand it, then it needs to learn or ask someone who can understand it. There is only one remedy for ignorance and that is learning. There’s no way to make things dumb enough for everyone. Microsoft itself failed on that one and they got into a situation that will be too hard to change (make your users stupid and then you’ll only get a stupid product with stupid problems).

I hope linux’ devs (and opensuse in particular) begin to understand that it is not necessary to make some things simpler. Because simpler in the short run means more difficult in the long run.

About DenverD’s list:

  • I have already commented about the partitioner.
  • I also would like multimedia out of the box, but that wouldn’t be legal in some countries. Not Novell nor Linux’ fault. The blame is on propietary formats and we who use them (so, blame goes to that “windows guy” in all of us).
  • My experience with (propietary) video drivers has always been good. I am using NVidia in both desktop and laptop and Yast installed the right drivers for me. The important thing is to buy and support Linux’ compatible hardware (by compatible I mean HW with good linux’ drivers).
    In fact, it was easier to add the NVdia card for the desktop computer in Linux than it was on Windows (leftover partition). Really!
  • I have experienced myself the CD/DVD problem. I agree that it is a pain. However, the cure is not that complicated: manually unmount the device and you are done. You can even make a desktop icon for that (with the reglamentary kdesu/gnomesu trick) or use the console… it will not bite you.:wink:
  • I don’t understand what he meant with “see/mount/use ALL installed/connected drives”. I am able to see and use them all. The installation even proposed to create mount points for me.
  • About VPN… I agree 100%. This has been a no-go for me in the past. I hope it gets solved. However, when I investigated on this issue, I came to the conclusion that the problem lied on lack of support from the propietary VPN solution provider. I have had to install VPN in a virtual machine to make it work. That did not make me happy. Tech support at work had no idea at all (and I work for a software company… go figure! They also seem to have a “windows guys” tech team).

So, as usual, the fault lies in propietary sofware and, of course, WINDOWS! :wink:

TioDuke wrote:
… (some pretty good stuff snipped)…

> He chooses same password for both users and yet he makes claims about
> security. The auto-login screen is as optional (true by default but you
> get a fine warning) as the same-password thingy.
>
> The funny thing is that both options are there because of the “windows
> guys”. I hope both options will get removed some day, or at least turned
> off by default.
> The partioner is clear and easy enough. No need to change it. If
> someone is not able to understand it, then it needs to learn or ask
> someone who can understand it. There is only one remedy for ignorance
> and that is learning. There’s no way to make things dumb enough for
> everyone. Microsoft itself failed on that one and they got into a
> situation that will be too hard to change (make your users stupid and
> then you’ll only get a stupid product with stupid problems).
>
> I hope linux’ devs (and opensuse in particular) begin to understand
> that it is not necessary to make some things simpler. Because simpler in
> the short run means more difficult in the long run.

Here here!!

Novell… could you hire this person?.. please!

As one point openSUSE/Novell seemed to understand that offering
a simple panel with an advanced button was the right thing to do…
but lately they’ve been chopping things to bits apparently
because it’s too complicated for anyone (which probably means the
ui designer didn’t understand the need for it… so it gets
whacked).

cjcox wrote:

> Here here!!

I meant, “Hear, Hear!”

It’s early and I guess I’m that stupid computer user this morning.
Go ahead and whack all of the options. One click install…
same shoe size for all!!

the usual gripes.