Actually, Linus in this picture is being rather sarcastic. Linus was at that time in Japan at some Linux kernel Summit. To promote Windows, Microsoft set up a Win7 stall across the street. And Linus just went up and gave that sarcastic thumbs up.
Just like MS to set up a stall in such a place and then be laughed at. 
Knurpht wrote:
> This is one dull game.
yep, there best game is XBox…
–
palladium
I can’t argue with that. Microsoft has never had much to offer in the way of new ideas. With all their cash they’ve never done anything innovative. They boast a huge R&D program, but seem to have a conservative, corporate philosophy there concerned with quick profits and stock market gains. Great argument for open source.
…and a week later nobody cares any more
grin
Cares about what? 
Linux has been very innovative in the server arena, but from a user experience on the desktop, I fail to see how the advancements in KDE are useful, much less necessary; Also frankly GNOME is somewhat boring (from a GUI perspective), and KDE has serious driver support issues. I do support Novell by buying SLED support ($50 per year) and at least one OPENsuse boxed set ($59.95) per year and there have been clear improvements overall with each new release, but for the average user who does email, browsing, speadsheets, word processing,etc, other than fewer viruses, what is the argument from the pure linux user community to someone who is satisfied with his use of OS/X or Win 7 to switch to linux? The anti MS rhetoric is immature and proves nothing other than one’s own immaturity.
> other than fewer viruses
it is not just “fewer viruses”, in my experience of almost ten years
it is “zero viruses” and:
-
ten times whatever it cost (in money and my time) to keep a
anti-virus, anti-malware, anti-keylogger, anti-botnet, etc program
installed and updated for one year… -
whatever it cost (in time and money) to clean an infected machine,
despite all the time and money spent in 1. above… -
whatever it cost (time and money) to fight my bank after some
webspace-hoodlum read my keystrokes and emptied my account, even after
1 and 2 above… -
whatever is the forced cost to buy (and time to install) new
software (oh, you say you are not forced? so, load up Windows 3.1 and
tell me how much you like that web experience) -
immeasurable benefit of not worrying if my machine is gonna
–lock up
–require a re-boot
–need a yearly re-install to clean out the crud
–demand major surgery on the ‘registry’
–etc
that said, i do think one “who is satisfied with his use of OS/X or
Win 7” including their cost (money, time and worry) should continue
as long as they remain satisfied.
its a big world out there, with lots of different folks, and i can
guarantee you that openSUSE (and all the others flavors of Linux) is
not for everyone…
in fact, there are many struggling along with non-Linux software that
(frankly) are not someone that i’d have enough patience to try to help
here…
imHo, the minimum level of capability required to be happy with Linux
is a measurable interval further right on the bell curve than either
of those systems you mention…
–
palladium
Have a lot of fun…
I do not believe #2,#3,#4,#5 are typical problems of intelligent users and when is the last time someone used Win 3.1? I personally have been using linux since 1998 and I am a 20 yr user of unix and was a very early adopter of OS/2. I also recall Robert Morris who did a number on a few unix boxes, so don’t make claims unix/linux is by default immune to viruses (worms). I think you are mixing arguments for servers and desktops and like I have stated linux is an excellent choice for servers, but you have proved nothing regarding the linux superiority over the desktop; people shut laptops down; they do not keep them running indefinitely and even linux needs a reboot after a kernel upgrade. I agree with you that the design/arhitecture of linux is excellent (as far as I know although I am not a former computer science major), but it appears that some individuals affection for linux is almost like a tribal association, it is not helpful to the cause of linux.
I agreed with much of your previous post where you referred to “average user”, but I don’t think that automatically covers the “intelligent users”. I would also agree with palladium’s comment about the consequential cost of viruses and trojans etc., and software replacements, assuming he was addressing your average user.
…to someone who is satisfied with his use of OS/X or Win 7…
To that user, my advice would be to keep using it as long as it delivers what they need, at an affordable cost.
Hi
I did some work for a company in NZ, they were still running a 3.1 box
with word 2.0 connected on a LANtastic internal network to four DOS
6.22 machines. Their main application was still running DOS and is still
supported by the software provider AFAIK it’s still running that
way today
They had one machine hooked to DSL and not on the network though, it
was running 98SE (probably still is)…
–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.37-0.1-default
up 2 days 12:27, 2 users, load average: 0.13, 0.10, 0.09
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - CUDA Driver Version: 190.18
The exception that proves the rule, or in this case palladium’s point.
> I do not believe #2,#3,#4,#5 are typical problems of intelligent users
apparently you think i answered in order to argue…i did not, i agree
that Redmond makes a product that many are happy with…and i think
they should stay with it as long as they remain happy with its cost…
i left Redmond in '95 and switched entirely to OS/2…so, i have a 14
year virus and rootkit free desktop experience (not server)…but, i
never said it was a given that all you had to do was install Warp or
Linux and assume you were bullet-proof…on the other hand, while i
have taken precautions (firewall, nat router, and root kit defenses)
i’ve installed no anti-windows-virus software, and don’t intend to…
on the other hand, i have personal friends who have experienced
numbers 2, 3, 4 and 5…now, maybe they are not intelligent…i
don’t know, but i do know that i had a friend ask me how to get
started in Ubuntu, just two days ago…and, i helped him…
and, a couple or three years ago i helped a grandmother throw out her
horribly infested Win-something machine, helper her pick out a new
machine and immediately installed openSUSE 10.2 on it…
you should hear her talk about how much fun she has when she gets
together with her old lady friends and they get to complaining about
all the problems they have with Vista/XP and older…she just laughs
and laughs explaining the disbelief on their face when she tells them
she has a free system, free firewall, free office software, free
everything AND no anti-malware software slowing down everything while
it grinds away…
and she is not the least bit confused about the value of Linux on
the desktop (vs server, as you state, because she has absolutely no
concept of what a “server” is)…the benefit she sees on the desktop
is immense…
> and when is the last time someone used Win 3.1?
my point exactly! and why did the world move away from 3.1? i’d say
because everything that ran on midnight released Win95 used a
completely different file format and folks were forced to
‘upgrade’…(MS has pulled that trick over and over…or, can Word from
1995 open and ‘word process’ the output of Word-today? no, they
‘innovated’ their user base to more and more expensive products…)
> it appears that some individuals affection for linux is
> almost like a tribal association, it is not helpful to the cause of
> linux.
i do not disagree…on the other hand being a member of this tribe
is not based solely on “fewer viruses” as you suggested…
i’ve seen (whether you want to accept or believe them, or not) many
other reasons…and now add one more: personally i’m a member of this
tribe because i refuse to be pulled around by my locked-in nose ring
by a predatory and two continent convicted (for illegal business
practices) corporation whose board room have amassed fortunes greater
than the combined worth of several countries whose babies are
starving, as we squabble…
out.
–
palladium
Have a lot of fun…
What you get:
Microsoft -
- Big American Corporation, enough said.
- Win7 EULA says they can scan my entire computer without my knowledge or consent, and lock my OS if they think they find something they deem to be “illegal”.
- NSA backdoors built in.
- Internet is constantly being accessed, and the hard disk light flashes. What is it doing?
- No disk encryption included.
Linux -
- I trust it because I know what is installed, and what is going out/coming in.
- Easy to fix when there is a problem, think “registry corruption”.
- I don’t have to pay money for a CD/DVD writing app, and I have media players without advertising/spyware built in.
- Disk encryption is already included, I don’t have to pay €199 for the SuperDeluxeEliteCorporatemoronIhaveaBig*****Honest version in order to secure my files.
- When I visit a website I can laugh when they try to automatically install a virus/spyware.
- No corporation to tell me when I am allowed to use my computer, and nobody accessing my computer without my consent/knowledge.
I tried Windows7 enterprise on a spare hard disk. It’s ok, I mean I only had to install the Nvidia driver, and the 2 unknown devices didn’t seem to cause any problems.
But the EULA was a shock, there is no way in hell I would agree to their demands, so I couldn’t use it anyway.
And in my opinion they really made a mistake by making the desktop look like KDE3, those horrid big taskbar icons that take up twice their width in space are rather silly, what’s all that about?
It did start up faster than Vista, and also shutdown. It also connects to the network much faster than any previous Windows version.
The system sounds are nice, way better than the god-awful KDE4 rubbish we have, but not really worth paying €199 for.
I actually really like the Vista desktop, it is well put together and everything fits well, they should have left it alone. I’m talking purely from a looks point of view there of course, nothing to do with functionality.
In fact, I’ve had Vista home premium (that means I get the ripoff Compiz stuff) on my laptop since I bought it 2 years ago, and it works perfectly. I only ever had 1 problem with it, and that was a forced update that wasted the entire evening for me because it wouldn’t let me shutdown without installing the blasted things.
I left it overnight because it was taking so long, and when it finally allowed me to reboot the next morning, it was completely borked. I had to restore from my DVD and re-install all my games. Fun :sarcastic:.
I have Vista on my computer now (alongside openSUSE naturally) and it runs all my games perfectly. And without a virus checker, anti-spyware app, and those annoying updates turned off, it is quite nice to use.
It really is a good game OS, and if you accept it for that and don’t try using it for any Internet work and never install anything, then you’ve got it made.
Guys, just one question, why so much effort into flaming micro$oft, how about a little more extolling the virtues of linux in all it’s various guises. microsoft will have it’s place until we educate the unwashed that (apart from games - were getting there slowly), if you can do it on windows, you can do it on linux for free.
redbook4574 wrote:
> Guys, just one question, why so much effort into flaming micro$oft
not flaming…just answering RichardET’s question with pure true facts!
what could possibly be the problem with answering a question with
facts rather than emotion?
–
palladium
Have a lot of fun…
"Microsoft -
- Big American Corporation, enough said.
- Win7 EULA says they can scan my entire computer without my knowledge or consent, and lock my OS if they think they find something they deem to be “illegal”.
- NSA backdoors built in.
- Internet is constantly being accessed, and the hard disk light flashes. What is it doing?
- No disk encryption included.
Linux -
- I trust it because I know what is installed, and what is going out/coming in.
- Easy to fix when there is a problem, think “registry corruption”.
- I don’t have to pay money for a CD/DVD writing app, and I have media players without advertising/spyware built in.
- Disk encryption is already included, I don’t have to pay €199 for the SuperDeluxeEliteCorporatemoronIhaveaBig*****Honest version in order to secure my files.
- When I visit a website I can laugh when they try to automatically install a virus/spyware.
- No corporation to tell me when I am allowed to use my computer, and nobody accessing my computer without my consent/knowledge."
I have to say that there is misinformation here and you know it. You can get the EULA for Win 7 online and I did and I fail to see where it states it will lock your OS for any reason other than having an illegal copy; as long as you have a legitimate copy, you will never experience problems. You know I hate to be appearing to carry water for MS, as it is definitely not my true style, but I do not like to read propaganda being pushed as fact.
Obviously linux accesses the internet too as it will notify you of updates; Firefox does this too. As far as NSA goes, everyone knows what this is about and it is definitely not a secret plot by MS to control the world!
Back in 2000 I was running a copy of Redhat 5.1 as a simple email server in my house and someone hacked it. Obviously those flaws were fixed long ago, but the fact is linux is not always impervious to unwanted hacking, then and probably not now.
Burning can be done for free, and I’m sure that’s just one of many.
Hell, with a default install you’re able to burn things to a disk out of the box via explorer by simply copy and pasting.
SMPlayer my favorite Linux mediaplayer run quite fine under windows as well (although it disables Aero while it’s running), of course VLC works fine as well. There are free windows ‘native’ players as well such as Windows Media Player Classic (oddly enough not related to Windows Media Player at all despite its name).
If you like strange EULAs you should read the itunes one, it’s a real blast (pun intended).
Think Microsofts codecs that moonlight tries to download has some odd things in it as well.
Oh no? “Genuine Advantage” has had a high rate of false positives in the past, estimated anywhere from 25 to 40%. Hopefully, they have improved this, but that, and DRM, were what lead me to abandon Windows altogether.