I am a little surprised that i don’t read anything about wikileaks here.
This is not even a political issue, at least not which politics you support, but an issue how free information should flow.
Linux benefited from a movement, the good old hackers, that said that all information should be free and that only an informed person can make rational knowledgeable decisions.
There are the hacker ethics which are the base off a site like wikileaks Old and New Hacker Ethics CCC | Hacker Ethics
As Linux users we believe that all the information should be free and available to anyone.
Now we see how a state tries to push all buttons to get rid of the site of the internet.
I think this is really worrisome and i wonder how much people can do and how much a state (any for that matter) is in charge of the information that flows.
There is of course a legit argument to be made, that not all information should be free and that not everyone needs to know everything about secrets.
But if this is the case, then we as people can not make informed decisions based on what we know.
My bottom line is the truth shall prevail and information needs to flow.
>
> I am a little surprised that i don’t read anything about wikileaks
> here.
> …
i do agree with you that there’s too much murky business in (any)
government, that people are eing played with with blatant disregard for
their well-being, and many other things. in this particular case though i
tend to disagree with the (in my circles) politically correct opinion.
hell, when i sit down with friends or write to them, and we’re discussing
people we don’t particularly like or trust, i also say things i wouldn’t
want to say to those people directly. either because i don’t want to spoil
my (superficial) relationship with them, or i don’t want to cause them
unnecessary grief–doesn’t matter, i want to have the right to say some
things in private.
and just because these guys who wrote those cables & stuff are ambassadors
and such they don’t have that right to privacy anymore?
it wasn’t really a big surprise to me that US diplomats & politicians
don’t like many of their counterparts in other countries, or have less
than generous opinions about some of their ‘allies.’ i’m sure even those
counterparts are well aware of that fact (and don’t like those amis any
better). still, saying such things out loud and in public is completely
different, and i think even politicians and diplomats should be allowed
that much privacy.
> in this particular case though i tend to disagree with the (in my
> circles) politically correct opinion.
in addition to my previous message, i have to say that i can’t avoid some
gleeful satisfaction that those guys who attempt to run the whole world,
with not always very good results, have been caught with their pants down.
(i just can’t get over some of my roots; i used to consider myself an
‘anarchist’ when i was young, until i really thought about what would
happen to the world if guys like me & my friends, and everybody else, were
let loose w/o any form of government…)
i certainly hope things will go well for assange and his crew, but i’m
doubtful. had i stumbled upon those papers i might or might not have
published them, don’t really know. but to do it publicly under my own name
certainly wouldn’t have occured to me.
yester64 wrote:
> … good old hackers, that said that all information should be free
> and that only an informed person can make rational knowledgeable
> decisions. … As Linux users we believe that all the information
> should be free and available to anyone … the truth shall prevail
> and information needs to flow.
i not sure i agree, but since you so obviously do then i ask you to
fill the missing info below:
your complete name:
your mailing address:
your mothers maiden name:
name of your bank:
account numbers there, along with relevant IDs/passwords:
all other truths i need to access all accounts there:
all truths you have kept secret up to this point in your life that i
might be able to use against you in some way…
now, don’t forget you JUST said “all information should be free [and]
information needs to flow”…so let freedom ring, baby!
Not surprised either. IMHO the matter is not discussed here, since it’s not the place for it. Like you don’t discuss your religious beliefs in math class. I haven’t felt the urge to share my own sentiments and thoughts on wikileaks here.
First off DenverD, that’s pushing it a bit. That’s almost instigating things. You didn’t need to go there. You could have said it much better than that. Secondly, that information is against forum rules. I remind you of the forum rules and the terms and conditions. So again, let’s not instigate things DenverD. You don’t need to take it to the extreme here.
Someone once said that a government can’t fulfill it’s function without secrets.
I tend to agree with that, if only for the sake of diplomacy. The problem is where the limit is.
I fail to see the connection between the open source software/linux movement and wikileaks. It is one thing to want to be able to program the computer which you own outright anyway you like vs. facilitating the free flow of classified government information - sure it is true that some information about pre-released hardware is confidential as far as competition is concerned, but inux programmers are not trying to destroy competiton - they are only adding to it.
Also I might add, I have listened to much of the USA public radio coverage of this wikileaks issue and I must say, those involved with this stuff, while thinking they are serving a higher purpose, are actually destroying the very systems they think they are supporting. Plus those who give out this information have no right to do so even if they feel strongly about it for the simple fact they signed an oath not to do it. Those that are privileged with the trust should respect that trust and this assange character is quite the jerk for encouraging this sort of outrageous conduct on the part of paid government workers; he is what we call an enabler and frankly his beliefs remind me of a sociopath because he feels no responsibility for any of the negative results of his conduct and simply blames others instead. It is one thing to be a whistle-blower and standup to those you are fighting, but it is a pure coward who hides behind such traitorous personalities as assange in the mistaken belief one is “fighting the good fight.” Assange will bring darkness not light.
Possibly the most compelling arguments against Assange and Wikileaks are the new era of secrecy it may bring, and the redefining of treason. Would Daniel Ellsberg be a traitor?
Jonathan R wrote:
> First off DenverD, that’s pushing it a bit.
an opinion i do not share…
> That’s almost instigating things.
“almost”?
> You didn’t need to go there. You could have said it much better
> than that.
so, how do i say “what you wrote (all information should be free) is
just silly, and you don’t believe it anyway” much better than giving a
concrete example of how illogical it is to say such, even with the
lives of others are not put at risk?
> Secondly, that information is against forum rules. I remind you of
> the forum rules and the terms and conditions.
laughing out loud!
well, i just read through the terms and conditions again and can’t
find the foundation for your statement…perhaps you will cite the
rule from the T&C you reference which would preclude the OP from
posting private info about him/herself, or for me to “almost”
instigate his/her doing so…
> So again, let’s not instigate things DenverD. You don’t need to
> take it to the extreme here.
i read an extreme posting, and responded in a way to demonstrate
just how really extreme it was…
IMHO, this is a group that uses the state and all its military power, to silence the dissemination of truth. This group is only defending their own economic interests and financial power, and probably will be able to kill the owners of Wikileaks.