why programs don't get fixed?

I think i like to rant a little bit about mozilla since my problem
(really mine) isn’t solved with the updates and a new version of
openSUSE.

Not sure if i have a very different computer, different printer,
different driver or if i am a noob in installing a computer operating
system. But it must be that way, since no one else has the problem that
i am having.
Regardless what application i am touching from mozilla, if i am
printing a text it most likely ends up with an incorrect wordwrap and
instead printing a space where there should be a linebreak.
Maybe most people don’t print these days or maybe people don’t care or
maybe most people don’t even have that problem, which makes me think
that it must be me that makes the problem.

Anyway, since i tried to bugreport it and since nothing happend for
weeks i just ignored firefox and co. Now i moved to chromium as my main
browser and clawsmail as my email application. The results are
stunning. Clear printout, correct wordwrap.

You can blame me, if you like. And you most likely will, since you
don’t have these problems i have. But it makes me think that mozilla is
overrated in every way.
There is one funny instance. Under Windows mozilla works just fine and
just with Linux there is the problem.

You see that it bugs me really that i don’t know why i am having these
problems and no one else has. It makes me feel like that i don’t know
how to operate a computer and that i am the culprit that is causing all
the problems.

Why i am writing this anyway. I don’t know. Perhaps i just want to
ridicule myself in open space. I just gave up on mozilla, though i
still use it for some occasional browsing (after all it has the
plugins), but never ever for printing.

But this brings me to another problem in general. Developers seem to
spend a lot of time to improve programs on a lot of fronts. Like
appearance or some additional functions. What gets forgotten are the
basic functions that may be broken. And that what mozilla looks to me.
You can find that in other programs as well that the basic function
like stability gets forgotten and you end up with a program that has a
new cool feature but lags the basics.
This is of course not just on Linux the case, its everywhere.

My last experience with a program failure was Acdsee. I had a lot of
problems with the database, it simply crashed always.
So what do you do? You try to get support (after all you paid for it).
So the first that happens is, that you are to dumb to install the
program you get told to uninstall everything and install it new.
Since that never worked, it must have been something else.
At one point the support gave up. And again, not a lot of people seem
to have had the problem. So is it just me then?
Since then i walk far away from that program. Not worth the time and
money and sanity.

This is just of course a rant, but there is some truth to it. I know
that some of us are developers and as such see things a little
differently then i do.

To me the problem is solved since i use now totally different programs
for the task i do. But mozilla still seems broken and not usable for
the basics. Sad it is or is it.

And now you can tell me that i am wrong, but i had to express myself. I
do envy anyone who hasn’t any problems, i really do but i am tired of
trying so many times and always fall on my nose.

Thank you for reading.


Euer Komputerfriek Joerg
using KDE on 12.1 x64 and happy with a cup of real hot coffee…
Need help? Call 207.252.3.96 (really)

There are several underlying issues - yes some developers don’t like maintenance but most FOSS developers take a pride in their projects; I suspect a major problem for a project like Mozilla is code complexity. It is much easier if you are starting out.

It is interesting that one of the aims of KDE’s Framework 5 is to make it easier for developers to use by modularising the libraries; this will make it easier to identify and rectify some problems but may have unintended effects of making other bugs more difficult to locate because they are a result of an interaction between libraries.

However, in a sense KDE seems to be agreeing with you - it needs to make things easier so that developers can write better code.

Re printing in firefox there was an issue that the page size was “hardwired” to letter, which would cause misalignment as you describe if you tried to print in, say, A4. I don’t know if it has been fixed, as I hardly ever print from it.

And letter size is OK in the USA, so perhaps that’s why it hasn’t been fixed until now - if this is indeed the problem.

I am experimenting with chromium. But, thus far, I prefer firefox.

Part of my problem with chromium might be that I have not learned its secrets. My current gripe, is that in firefox I can middle click on a link to open in a new tab. If I do that with chromium, I have either hold down the shift key while I middle-click, or I have to use the mouse to select the new tab after clicking. I’m finding more usability in firefox than in chromium.

So, back to your bug problem. Personally I don’t print much, so I have not run into your problem. The way to think about open source software, is that the developers are programming for themselves and then sharing the results with you. If they don’t see your “bug” as an important problem, then they won’t be highly motivated to fix it. However, if you delve into the code yourself, and submit a patch that fixes your problem, they are more likely to accept that patch. Roughly speaking, that’s just the way the world works.

I can’t remember a problem printing from firefox. I have 3.6.24 and it is set to A4 so it is not hard wired. It may be that the install default is letter but if it is it can be changed.

Is it really loosing new lines or is it just reformatting the lines as a result of the page width being different to window width. In general with HTML, text is designed to wrap as the widow size decreases.

I would agree that some projects seem less keen on fixing problems, or even perhaps testing the code they have written than doing fancy new things. I am still using 11.3. KDE can’t even mange to correctly redraw invalidated screen areas related to KDE popups over the KDE desktop. Don’t even think about using dolphin to copy/move a large number of files.

It seems to me that some developers and some people responsible for distributions such as opensuse are more interested in new things that may or may not work, may or may not destroy your data than providing a reasonably stable system for the end user.

There does seem to be a significant difference in the quality and stability of projects such as apache, PHP etc. compared to KDE and at least the opensuse versions of openoffice and libreoffice.

On 2011-11-24 21:38, JoergJaeger wrote:

> Regardless what application i am touching from mozilla, if i am
> printing a text it most likely ends up with an incorrect wordwrap and
> instead printing a space where there should be a linebreak.
> Maybe most people don’t print these days or maybe people don’t care or
> maybe most people don’t even have that problem, which makes me think
> that it must be me that makes the problem.

I remember you had this problem with Thunderbird and were able to correct
it. Didn’t you try the same with mozilla?

> But this brings me to another problem in general. Developers seem to
> spend a lot of time to improve programs on a lot of fronts. Like
> appearance or some additional functions. What gets forgotten are the
> basic functions that may be broken. And that what mozilla looks to me.
> You can find that in other programs as well that the basic function
> like stability gets forgotten and you end up with a program that has a
> new cool feature but lags the basics.
> This is of course not just on Linux the case, its everywhere.

I know.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

In opensuse.org.no-support.soapbox one with the name of “Carlos E. R.”
<robin_listas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote…

> On 2011-11-24 21:38, JoergJaeger wrote:
>
> > Regardless what application i am touching from mozilla, if i am
> > printing a text it most likely ends up with an incorrect wordwrap
> > and instead printing a space where there should be a linebreak.
> > Maybe most people don’t print these days or maybe people don’t care
> > or maybe most people don’t even have that problem, which makes me
> > think that it must be me that makes the problem.
>
> I remember you had this problem with Thunderbird and were able to
> correct it. Didn’t you try the same with mozilla?

The fix did work with firefox but did not work with thunderbird. The
same thing happens (to me) with all other mozilla apps.
To me printing is an essential feature of a program and so it is quite
sad that it does not work.

Anyway, its not ‘just’ mozilla as i pointed out. But, as mentioned some
earlier posting, projects get big and bigger.

> > This is of course not just on Linux the case, its everywhere.
>
> I know.

Thats the sad part, isn’t it. Do the applications getting so huge that
it is just simply not possible to fix certain issue and does it require
just to much man/women power to fix them?

As far as i hear, this applies even to hardware that runs software like
a phone. For some reason, i get a strange feeling if my toaster one day
has a software and bug pops up.

Euer Komputerfriek Joerg
using KDE on 12.1 x64 and happy with a cup of real hot coffee…
Need help? Call 207.252.3.96 (really)

In opensuse.org.no-support.soapbox one with the name of brunomcl
<brunomcl@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote…

>
> Re printing in firefox there was an issue that the page size was
> “hardwired” to letter, which would cause misalignment as you describe
> if you tried to print in, say, A4. I don’t know if it has been fixed,
> as I hardly ever print from it.

I can say with certainty that it is a linebreak issue. Lets say a line
has 80 characters and after that there supposed to be a linebreak.
Instead of breaking the line and begin at the next line, is prints a
space and continues to 90 characters (just a guess) and then a
linebreak occurs.
I am using letter and haven’t tried A4 but i will try it.


Euer Komputerfriek Joerg
using KDE on 12.1 x64 and happy with a cup of real hot coffee…
Need help? Call 207.252.3.96 (really)

Nope, haven’t seen this here (11.3 KDE 4.6 & 11.4 KDE 4.7 64-bit). My only printing issue in firefox is the one I reported above.

On 25/11/11 04:17, JoergJaeger wrote:
> Thats the sad part, isn’t it. Do the applications getting so huge that
> it is just simply not possible to fix certain issue and does it require
> just to much man/women power to fix them?

I’m not sure it’s a matter of person-power(?) that’s the problem. As
someone else suggested recently, perhaps the programmers just like to be
doing new stuff and think bug-fixing is boring.

There’s also what appears to me to be the problem with Mozilla at the
moment that banging out new versions every few weeks is more important
than fixing bugs. They seem like a 50s car-maker who keeps on announcing
a flashy new model every year with added fins, imitation rockets and
white-wall tyres but the engine and chassis are unchanged from last
year’s version, complete with all the old faults that were there a
decade before.


Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 11.4 (64-bit); KDE 4.7.3; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nVidia driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306

Actually it is the other way around with Mozilla. They are upgrading the Gecko engine.

If not Firefox 8, would still be being built on Gecko 4.

I haven’t seen any changes in the GUI since Firefox 4. Have you?

What faults? Firefox works just fine for me.

On 28/11/11 18:56, rafter22 wrote:
>
> Cloddy;2411620 Wrote:
>>
>>
>> There’s also what appears to me to be the problem with Mozilla at the
>> moment that banging out new versions every few weeks is more important
>> than fixing bugs. They seem like a 50s car-maker who keeps on
>> announcing
>> a flashy new model every year with added fins, imitation rockets and
>> white-wall tyres but the engine and chassis are unchanged from last
>> year’s version, complete with all the old faults that were there a
>> decade before.
>
> Actually it is the other way around with Mozilla. They are upgrading
> the Gecko engine.
>
> If not Firefox 8, would still be being built on Gecko 4.
>
> I haven’t seen any changes in the GUI since Firefox 4. Have you?
>
> What faults? Firefox works just fine for me.
>
>

I should have been more specific, my main problems with Mozilla involve
Thunderbird and Lightning. Bugs dating back to TB2 still haven’t been
fixed - I have a vote on one that was first reported at the fag-end of
last century.


Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 11.4 (64-bit); KDE 4.7.3; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nVidia driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306