Why I'm not a fan of Pulse Audio

I would like for any Pulse Audio developers to see this if possible. I have had this on my mind for some time and I’m getting very frustrated about it:

With the versions of SuSE prior to 11.3 (before Pulse Audio), I was able to simply open my channel mixer (either kmix or alsamixer) and set my treble/bass volume levels and mute the microphone, then open my preferred recording software, push “Record” then start playing my song or whatever. It was that simple! **The sound coming from the computer’s sound card was captured. **

Now, in order to do the same thing, to set up my volume for bass and treble, I have to do this in a terminal:

alsamixer -c 0

because there is no GUI like there used to be for getting to this mixer.

Also, I have to create a null device:

pactl load-module module-null-sink sink_name=something

(insert any name where it says, ‘something’.)
Then a lookback - do this twice:

pactl load-module module-loopback sink=something

(insert the same name --it has to match the first command)

I as an enduser shouldn’t have to do this. I shouldn’t have to hunt around for a solution for something that used to be very simple to do!
Then looking in pavucontrol:
Set 1st. loopback from null to Monitor Internal Analog Stereo.
Set 2nd look back from null just to Internal Audio Analog Stereo.

**Once again, I as an enduser shouldn’t have to do it like this. It is too complicated and takes longer to do the task I want to do. **
>:(

*If a null device and loopbacks are necessary, why can’t the developers include this? *

How about a script like the one used for usb device detection? That does a fine job of detecting what was plugged in, and making the device available to whatever software needs it. Well, do this for any audio devices too: Audio device ‘A’ was detected and is brand A and needs xyz driver. Ok, make a null device and loopback for it. A second audio device was detected? The script makes a 2nd loopback for it. A 3rd audio device detected? The script makes a 3rd loopback for that, etc.

Just my 2¢ worth.

There are a couple GUI tools: paman, padevchooser, pavumeter. When you start padevchooser, it will put an icon in the KDE or Gnome system tray. Click on the icon to see what i does. I’m not sure it helps. I’m not a pulse fan either.

zypper in paman padevchooser pavumeter

I don’t know pulse audio well enough to provide quality help on it, but I do know that what gynart had working so easy without pulse never worked on over 4 different (perhaps it was 6 ) pcs that I tried it on (without pulse). So I can’t help but think there is a hardware specificity to this.

I think before one maligns pulse too much, more avenues should be explored in how to use it. Because I’m new to pulse, and sometimes I regret answering a thread, because I know my knowledge is pathetically weak here. I just wish others would help more.

I do think it important that one join the pulse audio mailing list and ask questions there … pulseaudio-discuss Info Page My guess is very few of our users who dislike pulse have ever looked for help there. If there is a function that is important to me, if it does not work properly and I think pulse may be the cause, I know I would in my case look for help on the mailing list.

On 06/21/2011 05:06 PM, gymnart wrote:
>
> I would like for any Pulse Audio developers to see this if possible.

not likely any are here…

but i bet you can find some here http://www.pulseaudio.org/ so send them
a nice love letter…

and, you might wanna do like i did and not even install it (next time)
or just delete it this time…


DD
Caveat
Hardware
Software
21 June: Sunrise 4:34 AM, Sunset 10:03 PM

Well. The thing is: why should I try to hunt bugs or reasons for strange behaviour with the PA-team although I don’t even see the need to use it at all? I am satisfied with the soundsystem as it is (without PA).

Why ? Because its a user’s choice. If a user is happy to remove pulse and fix anything that removal may break then they are welcome to do so. They then do NOT have to try to hunt pulse bugs. They do NOT have to hunt for strange behaviour with the PA team. They have found a way that works for them (with out PA) and all the more to them.

Of course the support they will get since they have adopted a non-nominal approach (without pulse audio) is minimal, but that’s their choice.

Of course they can argue support for pulse (in openSUSE-11.4) is minimal also, and that also is probably CURRENTLY true (it may not be true tomorrow, so to speak). Pulse audio is fairly new to KDE users in openSUSE-11.4 (I’m still on openSUSE-11.3 which has NO pulseaudio by default and hence my pulse audio knowledge (which I try to share comes from the occasional foray into 11.4 on test partitions) is pathetic and poor - BUT at least I try to share the pathetic little I know - many refuse to share). So its not surprising that openSUSE-11.4 users may struggle in this move to pulse audio.

But for those who can not get audio to work properly when removing pulse, or for those who note that the developers, who contribute more than 99% of all others, have decided to move the distribution in a specific direction, together with 95% of all other distributions who are going in the same direction (with pulse), then for those users it is to their benefit to work with the developers to make pulseaudio more useable.

So thats why.

No one is compelling anyone to do anything. But if one wishes the distribution to go forward, then one needs to contribute as much or even more as the developers to change the course of direction of the GNU/Linux distro and of the GNU/Linux audio system (which is adopting pulse).

Those who contribute LESS than the developers in GNU/Linux, can continue to use the audio system the way it worked in the past, if they can get it to work that way. But IMHO its not a looking forward way of doing things.

The more one contributes in GNU/Linux, the more the influence. Those who don’t contribute, can end up with things not working the way it worked in the past, with no recourse but to (1) leave, (2) try to get the new way to work, or (3) try to hack at the old way to get it working again, (4) contribute positively to the development to change the direction.

Things in GNU/Linux move forward based on the contributions of those who contribute.

Edit - I note this IS soapbox, and that’s a ‘soapbox’ reply.

Since you don’t use it, noone would expect you to be in a position to answer that question or need an answer to it. :slight_smile:

Isn’t pulse installed by default? Because if i check on my desk there is pulse selected. But i don’t have problems and i only have onboard sound anyway. And the board is old too.

Yes, but PulseAudio can be deselected and disabled. I don’t have problems either [with onboard sound]. Some users need to disable PulseAudio. On standard 11.4 you can get problems, e.g. if you want to run Jack (a sound server for professional-level audio applications) alongside PulseAudio, on the same sound card/chip.

I am okay with pulse, but not on openSUSE.
On ubuntu they actually have very good pulse audio integration, the sound is clear and I dont have issues.
On openSUSE though, different story as the sound is real low and I can barely hear my audio even with volume on high

Very soapboxish indeed.

Are you actually suggesting that removing PulseAudio will break things? Why? It does not. I am a mod in both the KDE- and multimedia-subforum in a big german SuSE-board, I never read that removing PA would break anything. You can remove it safely (only two or three PA-packages need to stay for compatibility reasons) and after restarting the session everything works fine.

Pure ALSA (or ALSA/JACK or OSS) will not become less “nominal” without PulseAudio. They do not need PulseAudio to work. You make it sound as if PulseAudio replaces ALSA etc., but it does not.

Maybe I am asking the wrong one, but in what way does PulseAudio push anything forward? The only benefit I have seen so far is that it is possible to set volumes for each application individually - I don’t see this to be a killer feature. I never felt the need to set a different volume for my video player as opposed to my music player. If it’s too loud, I set it lower, if it’s too low, I set it higher. I do not wish to mix both, because I do one thing at a time. Running several different sound producing applications at a time seems a pretty unusual user scenario, too.

Just to make it clear: I would most probably support PulseAudio much more if I knew what to look forward to. Again: can you explain what that could be?

You know very well that this is only half the story. Contributors will stop contributing when no one is using their contributions.

I agree with you, though, that PA most probably will become better during time, and I am sure I will use it then. But right now I can only ask: what is it for?

On openSUSE the sound is clear and I don’t have issues. It’s not “real low” here and I can hear it perfectly with volume at 44%.

Why remove it? Disabling via Yast, or running “setup-pulseaudio --disable” as root, should be enough. Removing PulseAudio has broken things for some users on this forum.

There are fewer users using JACK in this forum, so support can be patchy here.

May I say that as informed openSUSE users, we are free to modify our audio setup’s as we so desire. Further, I also have had issues with Pulseaudio and feel I understand the problem. However, unless several people outside of this group here changes their minds, this (the installation and use of Pulse by default) is the audio setup our designers have chosen for us. We are free to take any steps we like, but I wonder if we might not be better off trying to figure out how to live with it? The pavucontrol seems to be one choice that tries to work within the system. I have actually added in the xfce4-mixer which does everything I need. Still, everyone does different things with their PC’s audio, some of which are less successful under the control of Pulse. So, since this is the soapbox, I would like to suggest we need to figure out how to live with Pulse as opposed to cutting it out like some sort of cancer. But again, this is only my lowly opinion on the subject.

Thank You,

Not in my case and not with my card.
But different results are expected.

Pulse! I like it. My sound works with out a problem and it offers many options on my machine.:wink:

conram, could you be more specific? What options does PulseAudio offer that were not present before?

my opinion regarding Pulseaudio: I just hate it.

Reason: Every Linux OS on my computers with Pulseaudio play my music really bad. Choppy, one song too loud, the next one too low… it really is a pain. Yes: the volume of all my songs is balanced (or how this is called) :wink:

In Gnome based distros I found out that it is really difficult to get rid of PA. I don´t know if this is generally true, but I always lost the volume settings and other things which are self evident in a modern operating system.
Luckily in KDE this is not so critical and removing PA does not break things. I right now just have it disabled in YaST and everything works fine.
I also noticed that after login with PA enabled, there is a huge gap between the login and until the system is ready to work.
Without PA this is not the case.

I also wonder: the developers of Pulseaudion must have seen all the hundreds of postings in the internet: “help, problems with sound - Pulseaudio…” and everytime someone shows up, tells the one who asked to uninstall Pulseaudio and everything works fine afterwards. So don´t these guys (the PA developers) feel that they actually have to improve their stuff if someone should actually use it?
Or is it worse: are they just there to make playing music as bad, unpleasant and difficult as possible? And it´s not just music… communicating over VOIP and other things too…
This is how I feel about these guys and their “product”. And contributing? No, ---- no! ------------------------!
It does not bring any improvement for the average user, so why is it then standard in nearly every Distro? As I read some blog entries about the features of openSUSE 11.4 and also the developer conference in Nürnberg last year, and that the Pulseaudio guy was there and they talked about integration into openSUSE, I prayed every day that this will not come true. But here it is… deactivated.

One example is, I have an onboard sound card that I use for my 4.1 sorround speakers and have an nvidia graphic card with hdmi output. I was able to make it work simultaneously without pulse but hdmi sound comes first than the sound coming from the onboard sound system which is analog, in effect my sound appears to have an echo, so I have to choose to which sound I will use between analog and hdmi. Luckily in pulse It gave me an easy way of making both work without any issue and amazingly produces a quality sound. I will not elaborate how I made it work but for sure I did some searching to educate myself how to tweak pulse just what I did with alsa.

As an aside the xfce mixer is easier to use along with pavucontrol than kmix because it offers many options for controlling the sound system if you are using pulseaudio.

Edit.
As some of you probably know
It is easy in multimedia applications like mplayer etc
to point how to use pulse.

YES, I am MOST DEFINTELY suggesting it might. Now I have next to NO openSUSE-11.4 experience with this, because as noted I am an openSUSE-11.3 user and I only occasionally delve into pulse on openSUSE-11.4 test partitions on a few PCs. I make no claims about being a mod on this forum nor on other forums making me some sort of expert (as I am not an expert - and my view is being a mod does NOT make one an expert).

But I do read posts about sound on the ubuntu forum and Fedora forum (where those distributions are claimed to have a larger user base than openSUSE). And I do try to help with sound on the Fedora forum. And there are MANY posts by users on those forums who when removing pulse audio broke there sound.

Is openSUSE immune to such a problem? Maybe. Maybe not. My guess is NOT. openSUSE-11.4 was tested WITH pulse. It was NOT tested with out pulse. If there is one thing I have learned over the years (with no credentials posted nor any claim to knowing anything about software) is that not testing a package based on software leads to problems. Almost always leads to problems. Software NEEDs to be tested in its delivered state as near as possible.

You misread the use of nominal. The nominal configuration for openSUSE-11.4 is with Pulse enabled. That’s all there is to my use of the word. openSUSE-11.4 does not install with pulse disabled unless one changes from the nominal setup which has PULSE. ie Nominal is with pulse. Not nominal is without pulse.

I make no allusions to ALSA replacing pulse. The illusion ? is in your view of my words, … not mine.

I re-read my post and there is no way it hints as to what you misread. A soapbox spin of yours?

Yes individual volume control.

Also individual device control / selection, where WITHOUT having to learn Jack, one can send sound from any app to any device, and visa versa. I could not do that before pulse. The technique that gynart claimed worked great on 11.3 without pulse did not work an any of my PCs. Ergo, it was great for one user (without pulse) but not for another without pulse.

And for users with some hardware, pulse provides the capability for multiple devices to play audio at the same time, something that worked for some of us without pulse, but most definitely did NOT work for all of us without pulse (again unless one wanted to dive into Jack).

I think I just explained it above. Better control over audio in devices. Better control over volume on individual apps, and unlike you I DO HAVE a use for such controls. I have played with multiple audio devices playing sound at the same time, and found it necessary to individual adjust their volume levels because the levels inside the media files audio codec was different. I could NOT do that before.

With pulse, I was able to record a Skype session, which I could NEVER do without pulse. This was with my 85+ year old mother, who IF I AM LUCKY I can see once/year. Its expensive to fly across continents. I now have a video record of some chats with her. Pulse has given me something precious that I could NOT get without unless I learned Jack. Something (Jack) that I looked at and threw my hands up and walked away in annoyance at the complexity (of Jack). Pulse made this easy for me.

So I think I just explained even more the use of pulse for some of us is a SIGNIFICANT benefit.