Why i need certain programs i don't want

Hi,
it is strange to me that even though i run gnome at the moment, certain apps always re-appear in my list.
Right now i see Eveolution popping up now and then and the same is to F-Spot. Why is that? Can i not say i don’t want them?
Its really annoying and so i always remove them after an update.
Also, do i need Nepomuk Backup? Since this is pure gnome, why is that installed as well?
I am just asking because i don’t know why. Or there is a concept i don’t see.

Is anyone else asking these questions?

Hi,
it is strange to me that even though i run gnome at the moment, certain apps always re-appear in my list.
Right now i see Eveolution popping up now and then and the same is to F-Spot. Why is that? Can i not say i don’t want them?
Its really annoying and so i always remove them after an update.
Also, do i need Nepomuk Backup? Since this is pure gnome, why is that installed as well?
I am just asking because i don’t know why. Or there is a concept i don’t see.

Is anyone else asking these questions?

So, the answer is two things:

  1. Prerequisites and dependencies can pair up several applications.
  2. Patterns put together by the developers, placing commonly use applications together.

Normally, I ask if you are running out of disk space and if that is why you have this concern? Security could be another one though if you have specifics on a security issue with any included application, I would make it known here so that some additional action could be taken. You can always use SUSE Studio to build a custom setup with only the applications you want:

Welcome – SUSE Studio

In the end, its all too much trouble to me and not worth the effort to have a custom setup to save some disk space. That’s why they sell bigger hard drives. lol!

Thank You,

Ah, i need to investigate SuseStudio then. Wasn’t aware of that.
No, its not that i run low on disc space, i just don’t want to have 2 or more of the same kind of apps. I don’t need Evolution and nor should it be installed if i don’t want it.
I now that Evolution is needed, partly, for other services. Still i rather have a custom setup perhaps.

On 07/10/2011 12:06 AM, JoergJaeger wrote:
>
> Hi,
> it is strange to me that even though i run gnome at the moment, certain
> apps always re-appear in my list.

am i to assume the list you refer to is in (where?) packagekit or YaST
Online Update (which?)

> Since this is pure gnome, why is that installed as well?

are you saying you initially installed gnome and have never installed
anything KDE?

see, if you have both installed but are “i run gnome at the moment” then
the system will update all installed, even if not running at the moment…

this is not a help forum, why are you asking such questions ?

> Is anyone else asking these questions?

not in this forum, thankfully.

the other answer is also in a help forum: do not use package kit, it
is broken.


DD
-Caveat-Hardware-Software-

I agree with what some of the others have said.

If you install gnome, you are going to get evolution, whether you need it or not. If you install KDE, you are going to get kmail whether you need it or not. It is just the way the packages are built.

It’s no great concern here. It’s not as if I am short of disk space.

More annoying for me, is the software that is always running, but which I don’t want. I really don’t need tracker or akonadi, but it seems that it is almost impossible to turn them off (from running in the background), except by uninstalling them.

Ok, then i am the only one.
And no, it wasn’t really a support question. I was rather confused (as always) why some programs get installed, even if you don’t need or want them.

If the answer is, because thats how (Gnome) is packaged, then i’ll get it.

I just want it to know, thats all.

On 07/10/2011 06:36 PM, JoergJaeger wrote:

> If the answer is, because thats how (Gnome) is packaged, then i’ll get
> it.

hmmmmmm…i don’t think i said that…

if i did, i’m sorry because in actuality i know very little about
gnome…i thought you were complaining of KDE (or non-Gnome)
applications being updated when you were only running gnome “at the
moment”…

if you are seeing items you don’t have installed being updated by
packagekit then (imo) that is because packagekit is broken and should
not be used…

but, since you having a problem with either Gnome or packagekit or KDE,
those are all applications and we have a non-soapbox forum where
exploring the reasons for your displeasure with those and any other
applications would be better placed…imo.


DD
-Caveat-Hardware-Software-

I just want it to say, that Suse Studio is great stuff. You really can build a bare bone system with that.
If i just knew.
Thanks again for that tip.
Right now i am building my personal setup and will try it out to see how it turns out.

The way i see it, is that most distros pack things together the way they see it fits best to everyone.
Nothing wrong with that.
I just came to the point where i just don’t want unnessary programs on the drive i really never use. Its not about space, i have plenty.
And so, it was lesser a question about support, more like a general observation. I just wondered why it is, that is like that.
At the moment i do run Gnome (pure gnome) and still have nepomuk installed. So my question was, why do i have it. Maybe there is a reason i don’t see. I just want to understand it, thats all.

Since i know now that i can build a custom made system, the question is somewhat satisfied.
And really, i don’t want to complain or anything, just the things you wonder sometimes.
Today is sunny and quite nice too. We should now enjoy the rest of the day. :slight_smile:

Take care

JoergJaeger wrote:
> At the moment i do run Gnome (pure gnome) and still have nepomuk
> installed. So my question was, why do i have it. Maybe there is a reason
> i don’t see. I just want to understand it, thats all.
This special detail is really strange. Most things you see is just as others
already pointed out the way the patterns work and that some applications
recommend other packages to be installed (by default not only required but
also recommended packages will be installed). But on a pure gnome you should
not have nepomuk. At some point you had probably installed a kde application
which wanted to have it?


PC: oS 11.3 64 bit | Intel Core2 Quad Q8300@2.50GHz | KDE 4.6.5 | GeForce
9600 GT | 4GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.6.5 | nVidia
ION | 3GB Ram

I think the only program that uses qt that i have installed is skype.

Well, i think i understand the concept now. Kind off. For that reason i will try to install my tailored install disc and see how far that gets me.
But this is with every (i assume but know Ubuntu did it too) distro i have used.

But thats why i think that Suse Studio is actually a real nice option. Not sure how many people know about it. I didn’t. aehm.

On 2011-07-10 03:06, JoergJaeger wrote:
> I don’t need Evolution and nor should
> it be installed if i don’t want it.

If you have the date/time applet on, it uses evolution.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On 2011-07-11 04:36, JoergJaeger wrote:
> At the moment i do run Gnome (pure gnome) and still have nepomuk
> installed. So my question was, why do i have it. Maybe there is a reason
> i don’t see. I just want to understand it, thats all.

You can try (in yast) to remove it, and see what other apps it tries to
remove (don’t allow the removal unless sure). It is a way to see the
dependencies.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

Well, true. I do wonder, however, why libs get tied to a program. As i followed the dependencies you need to have a particular program as well. Even though you may never use it.
May i ask why that is?
Like i said, i just like to get a grasp on the concept.

On 2011-07-13 04:06, JoergJaeger wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2363406 Wrote:

>> You can try (in yast) to remove it, and see what other apps it tries to
>> remove (don’t allow the removal unless sure). It is a way to see the
>> dependencies.

> Well, true. I do wonder, however, why libs get tied to a program. As i
> followed the dependencies you need to have a particular program as well.
> Even though you may never use it.
> May i ask why that is?
> Like i said, i just like to get a grasp on the concept.

You sure can ask, but you will not get an answer from me :-p

I mean, I do not know. I can guess.

The people that make the development and the packaging, make decisions.
They probably prefer to allow a dependency to exist on some lib or program
that many do not use, because if removed would break some feature or
program for some that need it. It is easier to permit those dependencies.

Let me see, nautilus can browse files on a cell phone via bluetooth. Now,
suppose you don’t have such a gadget, but nevertheless, nautilus will
depend on the bluetooth stack and most of it will be installed. You can
force removal of some packages, maybe it will work. However, the devs could
redesign nautilus to use plugins, and plugins are optional. If you do not
install the plugin for bluetooth, then most of that stack will not be
installed.

So, it is just the result of design decisions, effort needed, etc. If
programs have a lot of features, and those features are not plugins, they
will require those libs for everybody.

Just an educated guess :slight_smile:


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On 07/13/2011 04:06 AM, JoergJaeger wrote:
> Well, true. I do wonder, however, why libs get tied to a program. As i
> followed the dependencies you need to have a particular program as well.
> Even though you may never use it.
> May i ask why that is?
> Like i said, i just like to get a grasp on the concept.

here is the concept: a group of folks decide what, of the (literally)
thousands and thousands of available applications, utilities and
whatnots gets included in an openSUSE release.

and, they make that release available to all who wish to use it (or just
try it)… note: “all who”

now, some of those all folks come here (or to the mail list/irc) after
a few days all bent out of shape because his or her favorite application
was not included in a default Live CD (or DVD, or network) install…

and, that is even when the both the DVD and CD image has zero spare
room…and, even after connecting to the repos and accepting all the
updates, pull ins, and packmans…

now, imagine how much more stuff you would have in your system that
you didn’t ever use if everyone of those all got their way and had
their most used, most loved and most needed application built into a
default install!!

see, there are thousands and THOUSANDS of folks who just don’t
understand why any openSUSE default install does not include a full
developer pattern (so you can config/make/install anything) and a full
up LAMP…

so, your task, as one of the all is to see what you have that you
don’t want and will never use, and don’t install it…

you have that option during the initial install…also, you have the
option to add your favorites to the initial install…easy peasy…

if you click on the software link in my sig you will see the things i
have added or deleted…many of those choices where made during the
initial install…easy peasy…

here is the bottom line: no group selection of software can possibly
include everything any particular user wants or needs, and nothing else.

on the other hand this is free and open source software, and you are
FREE to mix and match at will.

make sense?


DD
-Caveat-Hardware-Software-

openSUSE, the BMW of operating systems!

The grasp is easy to get: every DE (Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, and so on) have a set of applications (defaults) created especially for them just in case the user can or does not know how to install others(windows fails to do this so you should be proud that openSUSE or any other distro does this), this is really helpful especially for newbies. In another way as someone said already some packages are dependencies(especially libs) that help programs to run (the ones that you may use on daily basis) because programs are linked together to share the libs, saves hard disk space(again windows fails at this). This is in my opinion the grasp of the concept you are looking to understand.

Good luck! My tip to SuSE Studio is to add the appropriate Packman Repos (and the guide for libdvdcss2) (even Tumblweed can be added) early, then you’ll start with the packages you actually want, rather than have to re-isntall them for Multi-media codecs.

The answer is unfortunately by default zypper installs the “recommends” not just “requires” of packages, there’s a way to suppress that on cmdline, may be in Software Manager as an option. There’s some talk about improving this.

One tip is to use YasT-qt rather than GTK even within GNOME, it’s generally recognised as more useable offering, particular Software Manager.

An example of the suite mentality, if you look at Fate for say item on the “Minimal Server Install” you’ll see some ppl argueing for a suite of installed programs. It keeps cropping up, genixinfo has done similar with LXDE, where the requirement seems to be “install this suite I chose by default” as a package.

I think, the distro ought to be built more modular, it’s easier to add to a lean core, then stuff such as KDE, KDE-Multimedia, GNOME, GNOME-OFFICE, Libre-Office on top.
As it is, I’m unfortunately having to deselect whole load of stuff on every network install, that I’ll never use and will get re-downloaded & updated over and over again.

Can’t they just bloat the Live CD’s with all this ****??? >:)

After 10.3 the trend to bloat, with most of GNOME required on every install was so bad, that one of community priorities for 11.0 was a minimal install and the faster booting that resulted from not having every service you ever heard of installed and active by default.

However there’s been a trend amongst developers to say “disk space is cheap” and so step by step, decisions get takend which use ever more diskspace; because they just assume everyone has a 250GB hard drive and forget some ppl are trying to cram the distro onto a small SSD for example.

robopensuse wrote:
>
> JoergJaeger;2363065 Wrote:
>> I just want it to say, that Suse Studio is great stuff. You really can
>> build a bare bone system with that.
>> If i just knew.
>>
>> Right now i am building my personal setup and will try it out to see
>> how it turns out.
> Good luck! My tip to SuSE Studio is to add the appropriate Packman
> Repos (and the guide for libdvdcss2) (even Tumblweed can be added)
> early, then you’ll start with the packages you actually want, rather
> than have to re-isntall them for Multi-media codecs.
>
> The answer is unfortunately by default zypper installs the “recommends”
> not just “requires” of packages, there’s a way to suppress that on
> cmdline, may be in Software Manager as an option. There’s some talk
> about improving this.
>
> One tip is to use YasT-qt rather than GTK even within GNOME, it’s
> generally recognised as more useable offering, particular Software
> Manager.
>
>
> An example of the suite mentality, if you look at Fate for say item on
> the “Minimal Server Install” you’ll see some ppl argueing for a suite of
> installed programs. It keeps cropping up, genixinfo has done similar
> with LXDE, where the requirement seems to be “install this suite I chose
> by default” as a package.
>
> I think, the distro ought to be built more modular, it’s easier to add
> to a lean core, then stuff such as KDE, KDE-Multimedia, GNOME,
> GNOME-OFFICE, Libre-Office on top.
> As it is, I’m unfortunately having to deselect whole load of stuff on
> every network install, that I’ll never use and will get re-downloaded&
> updated over and over again.
>
> Can’t they just bloat the Live CD’s with all this ****???>:)
>
> After 10.3 the trend to bloat, with most of GNOME required on every
> install was so bad, that one of community priorities for 11.0 was a
> minimal install and the faster booting that resulted from not having
> every service you ever heard of installed and active by default.
>
> However there’s been a trend amongst developers to say “disk space is
> cheap” and so step by step, decisions get takend which use ever more
> diskspace; because they just assume everyone has a 250GB hard drive and
> forget some ppl are trying to cram the distro onto a small SSD for
> example.
>
>

I’ll guess that was what i was talking about.
Thing is, i understand that in todays world there is no need to save
space since its cheap.
But i really like to not have some programs installed simply because i
never will ever use them.
Now with Gnome you have some of the mono apps installed. Evolution is
installed perhaps of Gnome or of openSUSE.
For a user that is new to it, it may be ok. But i think if there were an
expert option that would be nice.
I have tried Studio but to be honest, i was getting kind of confused by
all the repositories that were there.
Not sure if you can select between official or somebody elses. I ended
up with two broken installtions, by the thirt time it worked for me.
But i went the other route. I took a normal installation and was just
deselecting what i did not want.
Worked for me.
But upgrading to Gnome3 insisted on installing evolution again (tara)
and Gnomes favorite mediaplayer which is never use.
Well, i made my peace with it and just deinstall what i can after it.


Euer Komputerfriek Joerg

sigh There is.

Every unecessary installed program, complicates the system and costs those who try and understand what’s needed, or do security audits. Unwanted software, still has to be updated, and there’s a small tax, every time you run zypper because of all the extra packages to consider and process in the rpm DB.

Zypper & YaST currently, make it soooooper easy to install packages, but aren’t nearly as helpful to those trying to strip a box down, to what’s really needed. This add everything including the kitchen sink approach is diseased thinking.

The bottom line is, it’s not just cheap “disk space” but expensive ppl time to.