Why I have switched to openSUSE from Windows and Ubuntu

English Soapbox
#1

Hello folks, I am new here but I am definitely no stranger to Linux.
I have used it off and on for a few years now but I go back to it often.
Anyhow here is my current beef:

Firstly I will place this on the table:

Windows without a shadow of a doubt sucks, seriously Windows 7 is a joke.
I have never had an OS crash on me so many times, not even Vista or XP!
Sure Vusta was horrible too but it served me somewhat well, Windows 7 has to be the biggest joke in OS history.
Sure buy a PC and Windows 7 works okay but build your own computer and all hell break loose.
Really Windows 7 is a mess, a unreliable, unstable hunk of junk that I never intend on installing again.

But then I have to say this about my other OS that I have used Ubuntu:

Actually Ubuntu is actually pretty darned good, its usually fairly stable on my machine and I do not have too many complaints about it.
Except the current development of both Gnome and Unity.

First on unity, well Unity actually is not that bad, its okay I guess but it still leaves a lot to be desired…
I cant customize it to suit my needs, I cant tweak it to operate how I want…
Believe it or not I sort of like the windows layout and I have used it even on Ubuntu once I figured on how to tweak it to look more like windows.
While I am willing to get used to new interfaces Unity is note entirely to my liking.
its something built more for a touchscreen not a desktop or traditional laptop, but its menus are hard to navigate for me.
I did install AWN on it but its still too new.
And Ubuntu will be killing off the old Gnome interface in 11.10, I really dont like that idea and honestly Ubuntus’s decision to use Unity this soon is a bad idea.
Its far too new, and thus still needs major work for me to use it.
I might go back to ubuntu someday but not anytime within the next year or so.

Then there is the case of gnome 3/gnome shell…
And well…

IT SUCKS!!!
WHAT A MISERABLE PIECE OF **** IT IS, I MEAN MY GOD HOW MORE HORRIBLE CAN YOU GET?
WHAT IN THE FLYING HECK WERE THEY THINKING!!!

Sorry about that, but seriously there is no way to customize it, no way to tweak it, no way to make it suit your needs…
Gnome 3 was cobbled together by idiots, plain and simple, the fact you cant shut down the OS without having to go back to the login screen is plainly and simply idiotic.

So that brings me to openSUSE:

While I could stay with ubuntu 10.10 until its EOL, the thing is that the new direction Ubuntu is going seems ignorant of those who just want their OS to work.
Dont experiment on something and force it on the end user, they could easily keep Gnome 2 going until its fully killed off by the idiocy that is Gnome 3.
Now I have used openSUSE in the past and while I still dont like KDE4 compared to KDE3 at least I can tweak it and make it look the way I want it.
Sure I still have issues with plasma crashes and KDE4’s unstability but at least its mostly workable.
openSUSE is perhaps the best KDE distro out there (though the one on PCLinux and Mandriva is pretty good too) and I can get used to some of the issues I have faced with openSUSE.

As for the issues I have faced with openSUSE in case you are wondering:

KDE crashes
Firefox crashes
Packagekit crashes
Yast crashes

Two of those are atypical, firefox is really unstable for me these days and KDE4 has always been a stability mess in my opinion so no faults there,
But I have had issues with Yast and Packagekit.

#2

Hi
I’m running Gnome 3.0 on my netbook, working fine sofar, now I did a fresh install from the fcrozat version. Installing the gnome-tweak-tool gives some more configuration tweaks, but as a first off look I’m a happy camper, once the Gnome 3.0 repository is released it should be a great alternative.

#3

> Now I have used openSUSE in the past and while I still dont like KDE4
> compared to KDE3 at least I can tweak it and make it look the way -I-
> want it.

Personally, I think KDE is too ambitious.

Did you try Xubuntu or other Ubuntu derivatives?

–
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.38.3
^ ^ 00:01:01 up 12:19 2 users load average: 1.08 1.07 1.05
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
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#4

Gnome tweak tool is too primitive and limited, its not nearly as diverse as what you could do on Gnome 2 or KDE

#5

I’ve had crashes on 11.4 with KDE that I haven’t experienced on 11.3 or 11.2. Many of those have been transient or recovered with just a logoff, and have happened using non-KDE multimedia apps (e.g. Flash, VLC). Having said that, most of the Flash related freezes were triggered by KDE’s power management dimming the display. More of those problems have been on an installation upgraded from 11.3, compared to a new/clean 11.4 installation. That’s not unexpected, but it’s not good enough for an upgrade path provided by “zypper dup”. Then there are issues with Kpackagekit (sometimes affecting the normal operation of YaST) not related to clean versus upgrade.

If this doesn’t improve over the next month or so, I will have to consider migrating to 11.4 Gnome 2 (with regrets). Although the DE itself is very stable, it’s a bit too “retro” as a User Interface, and I’m not talking of its looks.

#6

Well Gnome 2 might be “retro” but heres the thing:

It actully gasp! WORKS!
And you can GASP AGAIN MAKE IT LOOK THE WAY YOU WANT IT!
WHAT A CONCEPT!

#7

On 04/19/2011 04:36 PM, DancingmadRB3 wrote:
> As for the issues I have faced with openSUSE in case you are
> wondering:
>
> KDE crashes

i’ve not had a KDE4 crash…not one, much less plural…
i can’t find the thread where you describe the conditions of your crash,
and asked for help in resolving it.

> Firefox crashes

Flash crashes if breathe on it…firefox (if you updated out of the
beta version), not so much…same as before: ask for help (not here)

> Packagekit crashes

piece of not yet ready for prime time…kill it!

> Yast crashes

never…never ever.

your needs may be more than any distro can meet, have a read here:
http://tinyurl.com/8b9s6

if you like the way windows looks and acts, figure out how to make it
work for you…and, stop trying to turn Ubuntu or openSUSE into a
windows look and act alike…Linux is not Windows.

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
A Penguin Being Tickled - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GILA0rrR6w

#8

On 04/19/2011 07:06 PM, DancingmadRB3 wrote:
>
> Well Gnome 2 might be “retro” but heres the thing:
>
> It actully gasp! WORKS!
> And you can GASP AGAIN MAKE IT LOOK THE WAY YOU WANT IT!
> WHAT A CONCEPT!

use what works for you!
problem solved!!!

no more discussion needed.

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
A Penguin Being Tickled - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GILA0rrR6w

#9

On 04/19/2011 07:06 PM, DancingmadRB3 wrote:
>
> Well Gnome 2 might be “retro” but heres the thing:
>
> It actully gasp! WORKS!
> And you can GASP AGAIN MAKE IT LOOK THE WAY YOU WANT IT!
> WHAT A CONCEPT!
>

No discussion, but just an observation that I made without looking too deep
in the details what happened under the hood.
On the Eee PC I used first Gnome 2.32 and it had glitches and instabilities
(freezes). I tried KDE 4.6 on it - no glitches, no instabilities (all eye
candy enabled).

Conclusion:
It depends on a multitude of things if one desktop environment is more
stable than another or just works or not. I had exactly the opposite
situation with Gnome 2.30 and KDE 4.4 on another laptop with 11.3, where
Gnome was stbale without any hickups and KDE not, since KDE 4.5 both are
equal in their stability.
These things simply change from version to version, from hardware to
hardware …

It makes absolutely no sense for me to think in absolute terms that one DE
is always stable out of the box and another less stable.

–
PC: oS 11.3 64 bit | Intel Core2 Quad Q8300@2.50GHz | KDE 4.6.1 | GeForce
9600 GT | 4GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.6.0 | nVidia
ION | 3GB Ram

#10

Was this an example of “making it look the way you want it”? lol!

Then there are issues with Kpackagekit (sometimes affecting the normal opgnome-tweak-tooleration of YaST) not related to clean versus upgrade

That red stuff wasn’t in my post that you quoted. That’s taking customization too seriously. :stuck_out_tongue:

#11

Well I have not posted about my KDE4 issues yet, but from what I have seen the issues I do get are actually typical of a KDE4 install, such as plasma crashes.
I think it may have to do with my hardware, as I use an ATI graphics card and I am aware that KDE4 has issues with ATI so I heard.
Hopefully this will be a non issue soon with AMD phasing out the ATI line and possibly making better drivers themselves.

> Firefox crashes

Flash crashes if breathe on it…firefox (if you updated out of the
beta version), not so much…same as before: ask for help (not here)

Again I have had issues with firefox period, and I am not placing any blame on openSUSE here

> Packagekit crashes

piece of not yet ready for prime time…kill it!

Well its the thing openSUSE uses to update, why use something so unstable as your main updater?
Very strange

> Yast crashes

never…never ever.

Actually I have had it crash on me, especially the package manager.
It crashes with an odd message 6 out of 10 times, next time I will post the error I am getting assuming it ever comes up again.

your needs may be more than any distro can meet, have a read here:
Linux is NOT Windows

if you like the way windows looks and acts, figure out how to make it
work for you…and, stop trying to turn Ubuntu or openSUSE into a
windows look and act alike…Linux is not Windows.

Did I say that Linux had to look like windows?
No I just said I like having the ability to make my linux desktop look the way I want it.
I am fully aware that linux is not windows, no need to talk down to me like some sort of idiot.
All I said is that I do like the windows layout, but this is the main reason why I chose a KDE distro as KDE does come close enough to the windows layout so I am comfortable with it.

What I am complaining about is the lack of customization and flexibility in most newer linux desktop environments, its impossible to make Unity and Gnome 3 work the way I want them to, I like that flexibility that Gnome 2 and KDE4 offer so I could make them look the way I want them.
I thought the idea behind the linux desktop was to have a flexible environment one can make to suit thier needs not to be locked down.
Heck I can make the arguement that Gnome 3 and Unity are too windows like themselves by locking down interfaces.
I like the flexibility and customization of linux, it just so happens I like to make look a little more like windows so I can have a comfort zone.
I am not demanding any linux look or work exactly like windows, I just like having the flexibility.

#12

Mm… are you sure?
It may not be KDE itself, but some KDE apps do crash. I have several times Gwenview crashing and dolphin i think. Nothing major, but it happens.
KDE itself, i recon, is save or stable.

The rest mentioned works perfect. No crashes at all.

#13

Me I always had an issue with KDE4 since its been released.
But like i said my issues might be hardware related though i always found plasma to be shaky.

#14

KDE 4.6 has been vrilliant. Kpackagekit is clunky, but works usually. I have had no real major issues. SOmetimes Amarok is a *****, but I prefer Clementine anyway. OpenSUSE is a little rough in 11.4 but its issues are nowhere near show-stoppers for me. Also, my opinion is that Win7 is the best so far. It has operated almost perfectly, and i can’t remember the last crash or corruption.

#15

To be fair KDE 4.6 is quite solid compared to some of the other releases though I still have issues here and there.
Hey nothing is perfect and what is stable on someones hardware is a bluescreen nightmare for someone else.

#16

I don’t agree that they are idiots. However, the way that they want to use the computer is very different from the way that I want to use it. So no, I won’t be using gnome 3, though it is currently installed on one system for testing.

#17

On 04/20/2011 04:06 AM, DancingmadRB3 wrote:
>
> Me I always had an issue with KDE4 since its been released.

oh, i should mention i didn’t run it until Jan 2011…no crashes

agree that it was worthless when released, and for a LONG time after…

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
A Penguin Being Tickled - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GILA0rrR6w

#18

On 04/20/2011 12:36 AM, DancingmadRB3 wrote:

> I think it may have to do with my hardware, as I use an ATI graphics
> card and I am aware that KDE4 has issues with ATI so I heard.

yes, ATI is more troublesome than my seven year old nVidia

>>> Packagekit crashes
>
> Well its the thing openSUSE uses to update, why use something so
> unstable as your main updater?
> Very strange

as said, packagekit is (imo) a KDE product which is not ready for
use, so i don’t … instead i open YaST and use the Online Update module
as my “main updater”…

please post a bug for all your problems with it…perhaps they will get
it fixed…

>>> Yast crashes
>
> Actually I have had it crash on me, especially the package manager.
> It crashes with an odd message 6 out of 10 times, next time I will post
> the error I am getting assuming it ever comes up again.

that is not a YaST crash, instead it is an error coming from a
repo…if YaST crashed, you would not see that error…YaST did its
job and told you of a problem somewhere out on the net…

many don’t realize how slow the mirrors (bandwidth donated and speed
controlled by the server owner) can be at times, and think YaST has
crashed–when instead it is patiently waiting for a download to begin,
continue or complete…which is another non-crash event which might be
interpreted as a crash…

> I am fully aware that linux is not windows, no need to talk down to me
> like some sort of idiot.

thousands have read that article and not interpreted it to say that it
talks down to them like they are an idiot…i’m surprised you do.

i ask you to read the cited article again, this time without finding
reason to be insulted: http://tinyurl.com/8b9s6

> I am not demanding any linux look or work exactly like windows, I just
> like having the flexibility.

you have the flexibility to pick the desktop you want from a LONG list:
IceWM, Fluxbox, Window Maker, CDE, Xfce, Fvwm, OpenBox, Ratpoison, twm,
evilwm, Enlightenment, XFree86, and KDE, Gnome, LXDE…

and, after picking, then you usually have plenty of flexibility to set
it the way you want it…if not, pick another and another…

oh, have you seen this (which tries REALLY hard to look like a Redmond
clone): http://www.ylmf.org/en/index.html

but, if none of those suit you have the flexibility to change the
source and roll your own…

you can even build DancingMad Linux and watch it climb the ladder at
Distro Watch…

THAT is flexibility!

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
A Penguin Being Tickled - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GILA0rrR6w

#19

> I don’t agree that they are idiots. However, the way that they want to
> use the computer is very different from the way that I want to use it.
> So no, I won’t be using gnome 3, though it is currently installed on one
> system for testing.

Average users and system administrators are TWO spieces!!! Average
users, aka babies, just want simplicity.

–
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.38.3
^ ^ 21:23:01 up 1 day 9:41 2 users load average: 1.05 1.04 1.05
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

#20

It’s actually a desktop neutral system with a frontend originating from Redhat - unfortunately the kpackagekit frontend is just a little flakey.

Me? I rsync opensuse.org/FUNET 4 times a day to a local LAN repo and have zypper ref && zypper up -y -l in my cron that sends me mail whenever it has some output.