Why aren't the community helping the wiki more?

English Soapbox
#1

Seriously I find the Suse wiki well lets say an embarrassment…

I know there is some very good pages in there but it is hard to find the wheat among the chaff…

Some examples of good pages…
NVIDIA - openSUSE
ATI - openSUSE
Pm-utils - openSUSE

I mean this is as the title says it is a fusion of compiz and beryl…
Compiz Fusion - openSUSE
Why is it so different …
Beryl - openSUSE
Here I’m told to see the more up to date one, may well be but might as well said install xxx, work, bye.
Compiz - openSUSE

Then we have things just plain out dated…
Configure, Build and Install a Custom Linux Kernel - openSUSE
11.1 not 10.3

Then we have version specific I know not every configuration can be tried, but disclaimers work…
Huawei UMTS USB Stick - openSUSE at least we get beyond 10.3 I suppose.
Tested with openSUSE 11.0 on i386 architecture…

But x86_64 is available, I suspect the build service is making these but does that means it will work or not?

Then we get pages that can’t even agree…
Linuxrc - openSUSE
_TmpFS No longer supported.
Installation with Little Memory - openSUSE

So is it supported or not?

I really just don’t get it then we compare things like… hal for example
HAL - openSUSE
Compared to this who has a tiny community compared Suse.
HAL - ArchWiki
Or say udev …
Udev and init - openSUSE
Udev - ArchWiki

Are you embarrassed like I am yet? Hold on lets talk bleeding edge they keep wanting to give us the stuff, and want us to use it…
PulseAudio - openSUSE
Ok I accept that here it is being configured but if we don’t understand how it is all going together how the hell can we trouble shoot it? Say for some bizarre reason I have most sound but not with SDL…
PulseAudio - ArchWiki

Ext4 the next thing and smoke about getting in the next release, and around many complaints of it not being yet(Each to there own I don’t) so what do we do for these guys that do want it, not to mention while they’re trying they’re bug reporting…

Ext4 - ArchWiki

OH well end of my rant …

Hold on no it’s not I forgot to mention
Search results - openSUSE even changing it to installation will not help…

Then seriously as a new user looking to install my nvidia card which is easier to navigate?
ArchWiki
Welcome to openSUSE.org - openSUSE

I would love to help but wiki’s aren’t for me I help here, I can’t write wiki pages I write tips and tricks.

I just don’t understand why the community isn’t helping with the wiki more it is holding back this distro and in a big way.

Ohh and wtf is sdb all about, it’s a wiki. I can even understand having a help system and a wiki that has things unrelated, i.e devel bits, contacts, development history etc… but both! As an experienced user I still don’t know when it is SDB and not. Not to mention what is all this fluff with pages for every version of Suse out there going back to 9.1(I suspect earlier if I look). Fine if you want to incorporate the old ways but keep it on one page there is even banners to do this.

#2

You’re absolutely right! This is one of the “best” distro out there (or the best), and I hate to say that sometimes I feel more comfortable with Ubuntu due to the fact that their forum and wiki pages are better organized.
We, the users, should get together to fix this situation.

#3

Totally agree with your post. Even anarchy needs some kind of organization to be effective. :wink: I am happy to be included in any criticism that follows…

Usually mentioning the problem gets the response: “Anyone can update the wiki, or copy any howto over providing the author is acknowledged, i.e. why don’t you”. Of course, the more experienced people who say that, usually excuse themselves by pointing out that it is too difficult, too limiting, and basically too legacy for our present environment. They are probably right. They prefer to use the tools provided in the forum. Some seem to be more concerned about how many posts they have scored this month. I hope nobody takes that personally, that’s part of the culture, because the statistics presented to the forum user encourage it (e.g. number of posts, and reputation points). How about reporting on contribution to the community e.g wiki pages produced/edited. I am sure someone can come up with a better suggestion:).

Without a lead coming from the “old-hands”, why should anyone else bother? I don’t agree with that position, but that’s the truth of it, even if it bruises a few egos.

#4

Well I hope more like you agree and the ones with the skills take it up, having been here before and the lack of interest in community week I doubt it…

30 people have viewed it… They’re more interested in whether I have testicles or not.
How are people going to get involved with Community Week - openSUSE Forums

So a rant it will stay…

Edit if you see my posts before I edit them you would understand why I’ve not got the skills :wink:

#5

Well, when you take into account all the crap you get when trying to write a wiki page, or help someone it’s not really surprising that more people don’t bother.

Case in point is all the flak that oldcpu got a month or so back when he wrote a wiki.

I mean, oldcpu is extremely knowledgeable, personable, and also extremely helpful but the poor bugger was cut to ribbons in a thread that went on for many many pages where people were arguing about complete nonsense and semantics!

We are seeing more and more useless, angry, and darn right unfriendly responses these days in the forum. People being attacked on their first post (rant or no rant!), and RTFM is starting to rear it’s ugly head once again (remember Linux in the early nineties?).

I’m too scared to try helping much anymore after being ripped new one for trying to help some poor sod that nobody else would.

There is a generous helping of “know it alls” here (Fedora must have had a clean out!), they don’t lift a finger to help anyone, but are quick to criticise and put down when someone makes a slight mistake in his/her post.

I just ask questions when I have a problem now, and try and have a bit of fun with people now and then with (attempted) humourous comments ;).

#6

So Oldcpu hasn’t got the personality to be a wiki editor someone has though… Just like I haven’t either I come across too brash and get in trouble for straight talking.

I speak from experience sometimes Oldcpu can be over sensitive and wiki is not for those type of people. You have to stand by your edit and be prepared to step down.

The point raised is still valid whether it could of been raised differently isn’t the point. dd isn’t always the right tool.

You can’t tell me that out of all of the people in the community there aren’t people who aren’t over sensitive and have the skills.

Edit
haha

We are seeing more and more useless, angry, and darn right unfriendly responses these days in the forum. People being attacked on their first post (rant or no rant!), and RTFM is starting to rear it’s ugly head once again (remember Linux in the early nineties?).

And you used Oldcpu yet I stood up for lmgtfy against Oldcpu and got roasted for it…

Edit 2

I do not want this to be about defending or attacking oldcpu what he does is fantastic for the community and shouldn’t be taken lightly…

#7

Yes I remember that one, it did become vicious and personal, but it was a forum thread where it’s easy for that to happen. That may well have scuppered oldcpu’s intention to put it in the wiki if that was his intention(?). Are you saying that the same thing happens to contributions in the actual wiki? The ones I looked at just seem to have update comments or very polite messages attached. :question:

#8

I think it will always happen when two people clash then it will become my edit is right your edit is wrong.

Which is why my earlier post, good wiki editors remind me of DF the velvet glove hiding the steel hand…

Subtly but strongly they win the point and there edit stays.

Edit
I re-iterate my earlier edit
I have no clue how Oldcpu got used as an example and find it distasteful to use him as his contributions are something the community would miss.

#9

One problem with Ubuntu’s Wiki is that it’s getting overcrowded and harder to find things that are useful.

I’m finding the Community Documentation getting better though it still needs some work.

#10

No, I was just using that as an example.

I have no idea who was attacking who (and have no interest either) as I only read a few posts from that thread, and then only very quickly.

But speaking from my own experiences here I wouldn’t ever bother trying to write anything other than ask questions, the atmosphere is too filled with egos and testosterone for my likings.

Even asking questions here invites teeth marks on the neck :sarcastic:.

#11

I realise that but in me refuting it I had to go to places I didn’t like going :wink: (I’ve even felt the need to aplogise to him)

I personally think going back slightly to anarchy and order, if you look at the successful parts of linux and even where some have failed…

It generally has someone very strong, almost ruling, doing the driving i.e the kernel, gentoo with Drobbins etc…

I just don’t see that with Suse Wiki, I personally think it needs a vicious delete finger just to get started but having prowled the mailing list…

#12

Three of the things I see wrong with the wiki are:

  1. The distro moves forward every year and so much changes each time that the advice in the wiki becomes outdated. One of the problems with the wiki is that its pages go slowly out of date as the years roll by.

  2. Another problem is that some of the advice posted there is great advice, some is not so great and some is actually wrong advice.

  3. And my third grumble is that many pages are just plain untidy, incomplete and very hard to understand, sort of unprofessional.

I’m not putting anyone or anything down here – these are just some pretty obvious observations. It does need some folk to go slowly through the wiki and do some editing and also do a big amount of deleting the badly outdated pages too. But how one could go about that without stepping on egos or toes is difficult to imagine.

I wonder if there’s an active committee of some kind looking after the wiki. If there is, those guys don’t seem very visible (not a criticism – just an observation). I wouldn’t have a clue about how to start helping in the wiki.

#13

You can try the mailing list but I gave up and decided I just didn’t have the personality that was going to get things changed…

It sees very little activity and is generally about silly things every now and again some one mentions structure and it gets washed under the carpet.

My own opinion is the people in charge have more important things to do and don’t have the time. If that is the case then give it up to someone else, that is the same where ever in the community be they a mod an admin or a devel…

As soon as you’re no longer being constructive or contributing for the community step down but then you know that is how I feel.

#14

Thanks for answer i.e. no you didn’t see similar in the wiki. That was the only bit I was really concerned about. :slight_smile:

#15

I just visited the wiki to see who was responsible - haven’t found that yet but arrived at this nice looking page done with MediaWiki. Is that any improvement or more of the same?

#16

Start a petition to collect names to organize a pool to build editorial teams. The teams should be led by one primary personality who is ‘qualified’ to make the hard choices. Depending on the scope of the challenge the Project leader can deligate goal challenges to specific team-leads who take repsonsibility for specific topic pages.

Actually… I think Novell should deligate someone to organize this type of challenge. Too much chaos will just make the situation worse.

#17

Actually… I think Novell should deligate someone to organize this type of challenge. Too much chaos will just make the situation worse.

Sounds like good advice. Maybe one of the “Hardcore” people listed here, but perhaps they are too busy on hardcore…

#18

Well Lets look we get… Wiki Team - openSUSE

Lets look
Category:Outdated - openSUSE
Only 4 pages guess the wiki is in a better state than I thought …

How about Deletable…
Category:Pages to delete - openSUSE
Just 14 seems I’m wrong it’s not to bad LOL

But it gets worse I had a longer post but closed the tab, check the edit dates on them the longest one I had was 2007 most mid 2008 how long do we need a discussion for christs sake do we really even need one for this… RFLOL Time machine - openSUSE

So even if they get marked they’re not being deleted so what is the delete policy… openSUSE:Deletion Policy - openSUSE Heah did you notice it is marked for deletion to…

I could continue highlighting stuff till I was sick give me the delete button but be warned I’m not a hoarder… Then merged as highlighted earlier I would merge compiz beryl into compiz-fusion they’re legacy.

I don’t get why when we only support for 2 years we have such outdated pages, I don’t about you but I struggle remember back to 10.3 quirks let alone 10.1(Lol oh yes the one I used smart with)

As for SDB I just don’t get it and will never get it, it is a structure that is as pointless as it is confusing… Certainly if help pages exist in the wiki too, if as earlier then it makes sense I don’t point people to wiki but to SDB, but Nvidia, Ati etc are wiki…

edit
I should of fixed the emoticons but they actually represent how I feel lol

#19

Searching the Wiki’s I find to be an annoying test of patience.

#20

Well all I’ll add, it is over 2 years since I wrote this …
[opensuse-wiki] Re:Wiki cleanup](http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2007-02/msg00020.html)

So
Wiki = Pointless
IMHO

I always knew this was my rant… I’m still critical about the same things… It’s like de ja vu for me…