Which fekkin eejut.......

English Soapbox
#1

Gee thanks a bunch Einstein!!!

Eight hours into installing KDE 4.1.1 from the 1-click link here KDE/KDE4 - openSUSE and some bright spark deleted half the files!

So now I’m stuck with a useless system.

This update system really needs a rethink, this should never happen.

This has happened to me twice now, the first time I had mega fast broadband so it didn’t bother me too much, but now I’m in a technologically third world country and on dialup, this is utterly unacceptable.

Why on earth does openSUSE download one package at a time and install it before getting the next one?

That’s a sure fire recipe for disaster, Debian has the right idea, download the whole lot first, and when the package manager is sure that the packages are all there, and error free, only then will it attempt to install them.

And why doesn’t zypper keep the files it downloads?

“…but if you don’t have the disk space…”

That is NOT a sound argument, having to completely re-install an entire O/S, then re-download all the updates that took a whole bleeding week to get, far outweighs any possible disk constraints!!!

Somebody has their head screwed on backwards, or maybe inserted in a dark, warm, smelly place.

Maybe you should just have a big warning when installing SUSE:

WARNING: This O/S does not support slow internet connections, if you have one of these, go away now because we don’t like you and will cause you many hours of grief if you continue!

#2

“KDE 4.1.x: The KDE:KDE4:Factory: Desktop build service project contains KDE 4.1 packages. They are currently under development for openSUSE 11.1.”

Factory. Development. Unstable. Do not use in a production environment.

Do these words mean anything to anyone anymore?

So now I’m stuck with a useless system.

Your own fault.

now I’m in a technologically third world country and on dialup, this is utterly unacceptable.

Then move to a country that doesn’t suck.

Debian has the right idea

Then go use Debian.

That is NOT a sound argument

It is as it can cause your system not to boot on startup if it runs out of disk space.

#3

I believe a planned openSUSE-11.1 fix is to update zypper to download applications in parallel.

But you are not restricted to use zypper, as there are other options such as Smart Package manager, that comes with openSUSE. If you feel strong enough to rant about this (and we all have to rant a times) then surely you feel strong enough to try Smart? :slight_smile:

Why not stick with kde-3.5.9 for now, and let others worry about cutting their teeth on the cutting edge (ie kde-4.1.1)?

#4

> This has happened to me twice now

fool me once, shame on you…
fool me twice, shame on me…

wanna go for a third?

or, there are ways other than the one button approach…
like those others mentioned in
http://en.opensuse.org/Concepts#Software_Package_Managers_.28SPMs.29

–
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via NNTP, Thunderbird 2.0.0.14, KDE
3.5.7, SUSE Linux 10.3, 2.6.22.18-0.2-default #1 SMP i686 athlon

#5

So I’m the eejut for believing that suse’s 1-click system actually works am I?

Oh sorry, I obviously don’t understand, when I see a 1-click button on an official suse page, I thought it meant “you can click this button with confidence that it will do as we actually say it will”, when it actually means "don’t click here because it will break your system and you’re an idiot for believing that it will actually work in the first place!

Gee, silly me!

Installing a package with the --nodeps option WILL break a system, and if that is what zypper does by default, then it is designed to break.

This happened before with a completely different package, it’s not just a KDE4/Factory thing.

And Chrysantine, if you spent half of the time you wasted on being a smart-arse and actually spent it helping people, you would be a lot more use on this forum.

I have read several of your posts and you spend a lot of time being rude, arrogant, and generally putting people down.

This “it’s always the user’s fault” attitude is not welcome, and is counter productive.

If it’s not a problem for you, then you don’t care. Well, one day it may be your problem son, and I’m sure you will be the one screaming the loudest. Just hope that there are still some people that you haven’t alienated who will help you.

If you can’t be civilised then please stay away from any of my posts in the future.

As oldcpu points out, it is a recognised problem, so I’m not alone. I was angry because of the length of time it took.

And needed disk space can be calculated before downloading, and a notification given. That’s what computers do don’t they?

As for installing KDE3, I would love to, but that will be another 8 hour download and again I risk there being a change halfway through. Plus I can’t work out how to do that, there is no simple “kde3” package that I can find, and “patterns” is just confusing. I don’t know which packages to select. One simple “kde3” meta package would be nice.

You lot won’t ever have this problem because you have fast unlimited connections, that’s nice for you, but I have a lousy dialup connection and it is a major problem for me. I’m sure you’ve had a big download get to 99% and then lost it. Remember how that felt?

Surely this problem needs addressing, if a package is deleted from the server during an update/download, then something will go wrong. I understand that packages need to be updated, but wouldn’t it be safer to leave the old package there and simply add the new one alongside it? I mean the name is different anyway.

The new package would then be picked up in an update.

#6

8 hours? … Hmm … indeed you must have a slow dial up connection. Still, you could ask a friend with a faster connection to download/bittorent it. I’ve been seeding via bittorent the kde3 live CD put together by C.Goncalves for some time now.
Carlos Gonçalves: openSUSE 11.0 KDE3 Live CDst

But you must be “testing” us when you infer its difficult to select the KDE3 pattern (because its actually very very easy). To quote C.Goncalves blog:

The process of installing KDE3 on openSUSE no matter what desktop environment users were using was quite simple to follow:

zypper install -t pattern kde3

or if you just want a clean KDE 3 base:

zypper install --no-recommends -t pattern kde3

or even by selecting “KDE3 Base System” pattern on YaST. Easy, isn’t it?

Indeed!! Easy, Isn’t it.

BUT it may not be easy for you, as you have dial up, and that will download a LOT of apps.

My recommendation? Purchase the boxed DVD. Its very inexpensive.

Novell help the community by funding the server, and the server has suse in its URL, but just because “suse” is in the URL, does not mean its official. And its not official. Now I agree it would need addressing if it was an official update to openSUSE-11.0, but it is not. I suspect you think it (official) because it is hosted on a server that has suse in the URL, but it is not official. Ok? Its simply not official. Instead some enthusiasts who note 4.1 can be more stable than 4.0 are trying to help … but there are risks in non-official updates.

Good luck if you try the boxed (commercial) DVD.

#7

> Surely this problem needs addressing, if a package is deleted from the
> server during an update/download, then something will go wrong. I
> understand that packages need to be updated, but wouldn’t it be safer to
> leave the old package there and simply add the new one alongside it? I
> mean the name is different anyway.
>
> The new package would then be picked up in an update.

I feel your pain. This has happened to me on more than one occasion and I
am not on a slow link. However, I used to be on a slow link and the only
thing I can recommend is always do a DVD/CD upgrade. Otherwise you are
certainly asking for trouble. They should put a disclaimer or warning for
dial-up users.

#8

GofBorg wrote:
> They should put a disclaimer or warning for
> dial-up users.

my guess is, some folks (even after having been burned TWICE) would
go for a third time and come here to whine again…

–
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via NNTP, Thunderbird 2.0.0.14, KDE
3.5.7, SUSE Linux 10.3, 2.6.22.18-0.2-default #1 SMP i686 athlon

#9

> my guess is, some folks (even after having been burned TWICE) would
> go for a third time and come here to whine again…

Yes. For some people hope springs eternal that things will be different next
time…they rarely are.

#10

I copy pasted the warning from the same page - it clearly states that they are factory/development versions and won’t be considered stable until 11.1 is out.

All the packages you install from the build service are considered “extra”.

I don’t really care about your opinions or anyone elses for that matter - I’ve done my part for years now and I don’t need your acceptance - I’ve helped more people than you can count to.

If at any point now or in the past I’ve given any indication that I care about what people here think about me - don’t worry, I don’t.

When you’re acting stupid - I will point it out. You broke your own system by installing non-supported software which translates to “your fault.”

I’m a lot of things but I’ll never be a son - something I would’ve imagined a lot of people would have spotted by now.

I rarely if ever need help hence I don’t really give a toss. Ever seen me ask a question here? No.

As I recall you don’t draft the rules here - if you publically post something in here that’s completely retarded - especially in the soapbox section - I will reply to it.

No because I use a cache and can continue downloading the files as if nothing happened.

#11

If at any point now or in the past I’ve given any indication that I care about what people here think about me - don’t worry, I don’t.

Hehe…thanks for the confirmation. I was beginning to think that someone had taken over the Chrysantine account from Heidi, but now I’m pretty sure it’s you. :wink:

#12

Thanks for the zypper commands oldcpu, I was wondering what would get KDE3 in.

The problem is that searching or doing much of anything at all is a real pain on dial-up. Three K/sec is quite “entertaining” to say the least!

I only have one friend in the whole world, and that is Chrysantine, you can see the pickle I’m in there! ;).

I will buy an official copy of openSUSE, I just have to save up my pennies first :).

I think I’ll stop posting when I’m angry, it’s never a good idea! Plus it feeds the trolls ö_Ö.

#13

Mwah, one click install is good for single programs, otherwise just go through YaST.
Anyway I’d never do a complete install that way. Download a DVD, check it and install a fresh openSuSE 11.0 with KDE 4.1 in ~17 minutes :wink: