Where is OpenSuSE heading?

English Open Chat
1

I’ve been using linux for quite a few years now and just until now I decided to take a step back and look at where distros are heading. Mandriva seems to be going nowhere as it’s not as innovative as it used to be and it isn’t very well advertised. Fedora seems to be a good developer distribution and seems more cutting edge, and Ubuntu seems to be the innovator. Ubuntu saw a need for a new desktop after Gnome 3, and they created Unity. The saw Synaptics was too complex, so they brought in the app store. Where is OpenSuSE heading and what does it have going for it? It just seems like it’s at a standstill. It has Yast, it’s very user friendly and desktop oriented, but nothing really sets it apart from other distributions other than it’s green themed and it has Yast. OpenSuSE isn’t doing anything radical with its interface or stepping outside of the norm. It seems to just be rolling with each new software release.

I just feel like someone who is married for 30 years and I need to spice things up. I’m looking to see what OpenSuSE has going for it compared to each other distribution.

2

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:56:02 +0000, DupermanDave wrote:

> I’ve been using linux for quite a few years now and just until now I
> decided to take a step back and look at where distros are heading.
> Mandriva seems to be going nowhere as it’s not as innovative as it used
> to be and it isn’t very well advertised. Fedora seems to be a good
> developer distribution and seems more cutting edge, and Ubuntu seems to
> be the innovator. Ubuntu saw a need for a new desktop after Gnome 3, and
> they created Unity. The saw Synaptics was too complex, so they brought
> in the app store. Where is OpenSuSE heading and what does it have going
> for it? It just seems like it’s at a standstill. It has Yast, it’s very
> user friendly and desktop oriented, but nothing really sets it apart
> from other distributions other than it’s green themed and it has Yast.
> OpenSuSE isn’t doing anything radical with its interface or stepping
> outside of the norm. It seems to just be rolling with each new software
> release.
>
> I just feel like someone who is married for 30 years and I need to spice
> things up. I’m looking to see what OpenSuSE has going for it compared to
> each other distribution.

You’ve wandered into the rolling release forum - this question is better
suited for the general-chit-chat forum, so I’ll move it there.

NNTP users take note. :slight_smile:

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

3

Move completed - quoting original post so NNTP users see it.

Jim

4

Thanks for the move. I didn’t know where to put it since I didn’t see anything suitable on the main forum page. I figured tumbleweed = rolling release = more software testing to see where OpenSuSE is going.

5

Well for the fun, so:
Mandriva did fire nearly the whole developers staff, and thought that (since if I well recall an UK hedge fond took over) this would have been a brilliant move to lover cost and consolidate. They caused a hostile fork of their community (mageia, which by the way is quite promising) and a sever user hemorrhage. I think they well succeeded up to now to soundly consolidate because they are heading currently for declaring bankruptcy and therefore, if it really happens, they headed into the bin and have not cost at all anymore. Very innovative move.
Red Hat seems soundly leading the server area (and is well defending against a copycat we all know).
Ubuntu is searching in reality desperately a way to make money and to differentiate itself. They have a very good user base, a huge name, a lot of visibility…but no money is coming in up to now. So the pivotal point will be if they find a business model that will not be perceived as abusive by the user base (how to keep free software free but not for free). Tricky business.
openSUSE is in my view very often mistaken for SUSE and mixed up with Novell. Formally SUSE business (the former Linux part of Novell) was sold off, if I well understood to Attachmate (which is currently the main sponsor for the openSUSE project. SUSE is instead the real commercial manifestation of the Linux business of Attachmate. There is in my view a research for a viable business strategy too. And IMO currently not too successful. The idea was probably to have a enterprise branch offering “plus value” through longer service intervals and updates organized in service packs. So the target was not the normal user but business and medium level server, as probably free professional like lawyer studios, medical clinics of mid size and maybe some public office. Now that would be “backed up” by a free, quite experimental and to some extend rolling release of openSUSE, giving visibility.
The fact is that this causes them a double problem. Users that do not opt for the commercial version get a bit “burned out” by the lack of longer release cycles (there is a potential risk of migration to other distributions), and the lack of an LTS version causes something that is not easy to counter. A lack of reputation and visibility (as a lot of users claim that the cycles are too short, the system instable, a.s.o.a.s.f). There is then who says that “everybody has LTS, so there is no need for an openSUSE LTS”. Others went for Evergreen as an LTS proxy.
So to sum up: all distributions with maybe the exception of Red Head have a problem of how to implement a lucrative business strategy, sustainable without appearing abusive, restrictive or “evil”. All this by maintaining and creating an image of sound reliability. Not so easy.
But this is what OSS is all about: bone hard competition, close to the margin I guess. YMMV

6

So, since this is chit-chat, perhaps we can express our feelings here on the subject without having cold hard facts perhaps to back such statements up. Innovation is hard to measure precisely but I see such offerings as OpenStack as being an innovation (SDB:Cloud OpenStack Quickstart - openSUSE), I see such things as OBS as being very innovative (https://build.opensuse.org/) and I see a eight month cycle on openSUSE releases as requiring lots of innovation to support such things as systemd, btrfs and support for Tumbleweed just to name a few that come to mind. openSUSE seems to always be in the top five when looked at by DistroWatch (DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.). And, this is the best part, it is by far the most flexible and configurable of all of the distros you could possible hook up with. Its one of the Linux distributions that promote working under the hood, in my opinion. It really depends on what you are looking for in a Linux Distribution. If you want the most popular today then that is Mint (DistroWatch.com: Linux Mint), but for my money, its got to be openSUSE. As to the money side, I obviously wish SuSE (Linux OS | SUSE Linux Enterprise) and Attachmate (Fraud Monitoring, Managed File Transfer, & Terminal Emulation Software | Attachmate) all the best and for them to keep supporting openSUSE in any way that they can. It is hard to know what the future might bring, but I feel real good right now placing my bets on openSUSE and you should too.

Thank You,

7

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 02:26:03 +0000, jdmcdaniel3 wrote:

> If you want the most popular today then that is Mint (‘DistroWatch.com:
> Linux Mint’ (http://distrowatch.com/mint))

Though I am compelled to point out that Distrowatch’s statistics are not
distribution popularity, but the popularity of the distribution’s page at
distrowatch - which is something entirely different than the distro’s
popularity. :slight_smile:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

8

On 1/24/2012 5:26 PM, stakanov wrote:
>
> Well for the fun, so:
> Mandriva did fire nearly the whole developers staff, and thought that
> (since if I well recall an UK hedge fond took over) this would have been
> a brilliant move to lover cost and consolidate. They caused a hostile
> fork of their community (mageia, which by the way is quite promising)
> and a sever user hemorrhage. I think they well succeeded up to now to
… [snip]

Well i believe its the service these companies need to sell since the
software itself is free and supposed to be free.
So the only way to generate money is either to find a sponsor or to
deliver service which can include anything from setting up servers, to
maintaining, or anything else what is needed in a business.

I never tried Mandriva and i am more of a Windows user now, meaning i am
lazy to change to something different. So right now i now openSUSE and
so its less hassle to install it and maintain it.
If i would have to change it that means more manpower to learn things
and set up application. Though its still linux, new commands (for
install) need to be learned. And trust me, to me as a non techy it is hard.

But i fancy how Mandriva would look. Maybe soon nostalgia.

–
Windows, supports nearly all software, hardware, and viruses.

Rejoice they sing - They worship their own space - In a moment of love,
they will die for their grace - Don’t kill the whale

9

I have never been one to allow the facts to get in the way of a good story however and it really does not matter all that much anyway. One would have to come up with a better way to measure such a thing as popularity and I am fresh out of other ways on doing so, though you may post your better idea on the subject. I think that the DistroWatch is close enough for government work, playing horse shoes or tossing hand grenades as they say to be as good as a gauge on popularity as we can get. Further, before I even saw Mint at the top of their list, I installed one of their recent versions (11) I got from a magazine and found it very easy to install and to get multimedia working. I thought to myself that this would surely go to the top of the list and low and behold, DistroWatch has proven my opinion to be correct, if simplicity and popularity to be all you are looking for. So, you asked and I corrected what we said, I think…

Thank You,

10

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:36:02 +0000, jdmcdaniel3 wrote:

> I have never been one to allow the facts to get in the way of a good
> story however and it really does not matter all that much anyway.

True enough on that point (well, I don’t know you well enough to agree on
the first point <g> - but in the end it doesn’t matter much).

> One
> would have to come up with a better way to measure such a thing as
> popularity and I am fresh out of other ways on doing so, though you may
> post your better idea on the subject.

The Linux Counter project would be good if it differentiated on
distribution. But even then, the stats could easily be faked.

I’ve always “thought” (ie, not seriously) that openSUSE should pre-
configure the default browser page to open to the openSUSE distrowatch
page, just to drive the hits up - since it’s more or less just a basic
hit counter.

> Further, before I even saw Mint at the top of their list, I
> installed one of their recent versions (11) I got from a magazine and
> found it very easy to install and to get multimedia working.

As did I. I installed Mint and Back|Track as they came in my latest
Linux Format magazine. Both are Debian based. I missed zypper and YaST,
though. (And I never thought I’d ‘miss’ YaST, coming from Redhat myself).

> I thought
> to myself that this would surely go to the top of the list and low and
> behold, DistroWatch has proven my opinion to be correct, if simplicity
> and popularity to be all you are looking for.

“Confirmation Bias” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_Bias

(I love that Wikipedia’s URLs are simple enough that you don’t have to
copy the link)

> So, you asked and I corrected what we said, I think…

More or less. :wink:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

11

You may want to look at the official strategy and the discussions surrounding it at Portal:Strategy - openSUSE

12

Yeap, having a look at it, the SWOT analysis, which is normally seen as “old way of doing but still some fun to do” is, as usual (whenever you read these), quite incomplete, too optimistic (you may see all weakness as opportunity but you forget that the aim is a current snapshot then) and for me therefore of limited value. Hold in mind that these kind of strategic analysis are normally often outsourced because it maybe politically impossible to say “the whole truth”. The proposal part is the one that interest more, but this thing seems to have been set up when the Attachment deal did still not take place. And all the page has an important pitfall: it must always been stated when (what date) this snapshot of the situation has been taken, and as the first thing. If not, this has no value at all, IMO.

13

It’s not that simple, since interested people will go to Distrowatch believing it is a guide to popularity. Where else can they go?

The popularity of the distribution’s page at Distrowatch is a good starting position. Read by people showing interest in the distro for various reasons, such as researching and comparing the backgrounds and composition of several candidates, checking the current releases of components, picking up links to reviews and distros’ home pages. A distro’s page at Distrowatch is somewhat like a page in a shopping catalogue, and a distro’s home page is definitely its shop window!

14

I think openSUSE needs a kick of enthusiasm, or a millionaire to back it (African drum-roll please). Dont forget were in a recession and free software business is still business.
stakanov makes a relay good points

P.S. No, I am not http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/373711_281322105235621_1904653811_q.jpg

15

On 01/25/2012 12:36 AM, hendersj wrote:
> Move completed - quoting original post so NNTP users see it.

thank you for moving it “correctly” so that all forum participants can
follow the action…please train those who do not understand how to do
the way you did (pointer left in old place telling where is the new
place; and quoting original in new place–perfect!!)

–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat http://tinyurl.com/DD-Hardware
http://tinyurl.com/DD-Software
openSUSE®, the “German Engineered Automobiles” of operating systems!

16

On 01/25/2012 05:08 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> openSUSE should pre-
> configure the default browser page to open to the openSUSE distrowatch
> page, just to drive the hits up

why not do it (note my new tag line)

–
DD READ all the neat stuff about openSUSE here http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW

17

Just a guess: 1. It’s cheating; 2. Distrowatch would probably take action to remove those hits from the stats; 3. Any other distro could do it, so what’s the point. :wink:

18

> Any other distro could do it

what are other distros doing?

not that i care–since i think talking about “market share” amongst
Linux distros is a giant waste of time…

–
DD
READ all the neat stuff about openSUSE here http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW

19

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:08:54 +0000, DenverD wrote:

> On 01/25/2012 05:08 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> openSUSE should pre-
>> configure the default browser page to open to the openSUSE distrowatch
>> page, just to drive the hits up
>
> why not do it (note my new tag line)

Well, my browsers have the page as a home page, but I think if the distro
were to actually officially do it, they might well be accused of trying
to “stack” the stats.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

20

Well, maybe I did understand this wrong, but I did grasp the question of the thread owner like: what is the business model that openSUSE is taking today, considering the recent changes. And how does it position itself in comparison to other competitors. On distro watch: no, I do not think that a high position is = high degree of user acceptance and user base. But it is reflecting high temporary presence in the news and other information channel. AFAIK Mageia has still a small user base but if I would run Mandriva and read every day about bankruptcy risk, I guess I would have a look at the fork. The same applies to user who read an article on a distro or that find some free CD/DVD in their favorite newspaper. Infact, the very new distribution of Mageia ranks astonishingly high on the agenda. So I doubt that this is to be taken all tooooo important.
Maybe one should know stats. And the stats that I would be interested in when looking at perils and prospects of a distribution are:

  • how many active installations (following the repo server) are out there.
  • how many developers where newly employed recently (or fired) recently (gives an idea of growth expectancy of the management).
  • what period we look at anyway, should one see one year as period or 6 month?
  • how does the acceptance of new releases develop. IMO this is paramount to understand if the ship is sinking, swimming or boldly going. Since user behavior projects a good light on user expectancy and reputation.

So if the tendency would be, let us say, a growing acceptance delay of the user base of new editions, that would indicate a reluctance and to some extend a lack of trust in the new products. This in my view is even more important then the bug counts of the distributions.

Yes, new ideas are important for a distribution but the world is full of distributions that shattered onto the rocks while displaying beautiful colors. So if there is no equilibrium between the “bread and butter” user and the tech freak that might result in difficulties.
I think when it comes to distros (and as long as you are not sponsored by an alimentary business - say Ferrero or the Coca Cola Company) then market share matters. A lot. Also because if you notice, hardware producer now put a growing support for Ubuntu Linux and RHEL (but not for openSUSE for to what I have seen) and this explains only in market share. So to me critical mass matters.
It is a pity that we cannot see these figures, can we?