So I had fun and thank you the most how help me a lots a few little.
Special on kgroneman and kastorff.
So I had fun and thank you the most how help me a lots a few little.
Special on kgroneman and kastorff.
Have fun and enjoy life.
At least you tell the true you are going,to bad those guys like top of the list starting :
You ask a problem they ignore you or they can
t answer and I believe they dont know the answer.
Few difficult answer you find it out your self and to bad your english is not good,hey it will improve.lol!
We belong to the ignored lists.:X
At 1michael1, good luck, you maybe not good in english but you were able to express what you mean.
Learning a second language is not easy, and living in a foreign country and trying to learn the language at the same time is quite hard.
I have lots of respect for people who can do that, as I am trying to do the exact same thing.
It gives you a new perspective when you try it yourself.
It was quite difficult to understand him at times, and I think he got extremely frustrated. Maybe I should have piped up and told him about the babelfish on-line translator site, or my other favourites canoo.net and leo.org.
But I never thought of that, oh well :(.
From what I saw though, most people tried to help him, but if nobody can help with a problem, then nobody will answer, which is normal behavior in my book.
I think he misinterpreted that as something it wasn’t, sadly.
Plus I’m sure there is a German language opensuse forum, maybe he could have tried that.
Oh well, Tschüß Mike :|.
> I think he misinterpreted that as something it wasn’t, sadly.
imho, he asked FAR TOO many questions that were drop dead simple to
answer with either ONE google or this forum’s search…
at SOME point in time even the most foreign lingo understanding, least
experienced newbie should stumble upon GOOGLE in their own language
and type in their question…for example, in Danish a google on:
Hvor kan jeg købe Novell SLED?
(Where can I buy Novell SLED?)
returns (second hit) 317 useful hits with more answers than he had
Best wishes in your endeavors how ever things end up being.
… life being what it is, one can not be all things to all people. As volunteers we need to balance our personal life against our volunteer life. … Some time back (over a year ago) I found trying to support the forums was “burning me out” and “warping” my perspective on Linux. Too many users were calling for help, and I did not have enough hours in the day to help those where I knew the solution. Plus there were even more cases, where I did not know the solution, but I was confident I could figure it out, but again, I did not have the time to help them. And in many many cases, not only did I not know the answer, but I was certain I could not figure out the answer. So, should one reply to every request for help, saying they don’t know the answer? … Obviously not. … If everyone did that we would have thousands of replies to every post saying “I dont’ know” in a million different ways.
In addition, one has to balance family and job. My wife is already upset at the excessive time I spend on the forum. So in order to preserve my marriage, preserve my family, and indeed preserve my own sanity, I cut back my support to only helping users with basic sound issues. … Occasionally, on something very simple, I will deviate from that and try help in other areas, … but in the most part, I simply avoid all technical support issues other than “basic sound functionality”. I simply don’t have the time, nor the patience, nor willing to put up with the domestic consquences.
Fortunately there are many other users on our forum, who know a LOT more than I ever will about Linux, and many of them are graceous enough to volunteer their time to help.
It took me 4 years before I finally began to appreciate the benefit of the “ignore list”. … 4 years !! It shows how “thick” I am. … There have been times when after receiving posts from users, I felt like packing it all in, and go back to my luker mode (which I was in from 1998 to 2005) where I helped no one, and instead benefitted by the volunteer efforts of others, while I gave minimal in terms of help to others.
In the end, it finanally dawned on me, that sometimes two personalities just don’t mix, and sometimes putting someone on their “ignore list” is to the benefit of both parties. Perhaps a sad fact of life, but I think its true.
I think you are doing the right thing, oldcpu. I see it this way: when I’m on my deathbed, for sure I’m not going to think gee I should have answered more questions on the openSUSE forums. lol! I answer as much as I feel comfortable with and don’t sweat over those I can’t.
That’s also the reason I have turned off PM, because I’m sure that there are going to be some posters who will want to get a private answer. I’m sorry, but I don’t do those. I have learnt that it can turn awkward when it turns out that I can’t do much for them, or they get impatient if I don’t get back to them in a timely fashion because of other claims on my time. And besides a private conversation deprives bystanders in the forum of answers, and the questioner of answers from people who have it on the tip of their tongue.
I could not agree more on those words.
It’s very disturbing how some “users” think of the “community” as their “24/7 free of charge personal support hotline”.
The typical behaviour is
a) first posting is of 2 or 3 lines (maximum size!) without taking any consideration in giving some informations (even not the most obvious ones) as there its of course the community’s task to ask them (very often several times before they answer)
“Hey, thingy not working, how to fix???”
b) pushing posts after a few hours or even earlier and complaining if there is no quick response.
“Hey you have to help me, how dare you let me wait!!!11oneoneeleven11”
c) letting other users use google for you and then completely ignore links to tutorials you post
“Hey, wtf? Do you really think I will read this?
This is too much work, you have to read it to me!!1111”
d) and in the end, if the problem may be solved, giving no feedback/description on how they solved their problem, so nobody knows if the problem is solved at all. Ironically, the best way to tell, if such a problem is solved, is that there are no more replies by the OP.
If those “users” do not understand, that community also means giving back, ignoring them is the best thing to do.
Talking about ignored lists. Is it fair to the forum users that a moderator can add a member to his ignored lists but a plain member is not allowed to ignore a moderator? Just wondering?
One more thing if a moderator add a member to his ignored lists and this member made so many fouls against forum bylaws how can he track down his post? Does he has to rely on another moderator who did not ignore someone to take action? What if all the mods are not in and he is the only one login to the forum and the ignored member is spreading fouls?:\
The main thing that bothers me is that a lot of the questions could easily be answered on Google. And yet they still come here and expect instant help from us. Also, like oldcpu I have to put my wife and family first.
Yes, it is, as moderators and administrators have additional functions compared to normal members (i.e. writing announcements and taking care, that users follow the rules), so ignoring them is pointless.
Additionally, users are guests here, would you think it is fair to take an invitation for free and then ignore the host?
And personally i think ignore lists are for pussies™, if you don’t wanna read stuff from xyz, then don’t read it.
There is no other place where it is so easy to ignore somebody than in a forum.
I don’t need a “button” to ignore somebody (OK, in real life such a button would be handy sometimes g).
Fair ?? Absolutely !! 200% fair. Thats why we have more than one moderator. This is one way a user can be assured that one moderator is not going to pick on them for each post when it becomes clear to the moderator that their personalities just do not mix. … I think this is an excellent idea. The difficulty, if anything,** is getting** the moderators to put users on their ignore list.
That makes no sense. Are you assuming there is only one moderator?
Of course!! Thats why we have more than one moderator.
Many many many many many many times we have no moderators logged on. What? Do you expect there to be a moderator logged on 24 hours a day? 7 days a week? If so, then you need to give all of us volunteers some money. That (24hrs/day, 7days/week) monitoring is not going to happen on a volunteer forum.
I will teach you about service and I have lots of service experience.
You are wrong ok:
I watching 18 hrs a day different time what is going on.
People do volunteers or get a payroll it makes no different should do the same quality job and everyone expect for it.
And few of you should go back and study about service.
t care if is black,yellow,green,brown... I answer the question if I can if not,I dont ignore because I agree to or asking for volunteers or get a payroll each why.
I will tell the person I
m sorry I cant answer right now I will look into and I let you know.That is very simple,the person ask to be moderator,should ask he/she think twice if I have lots of time and ask her/his family if is okay with it to be a moderator.You/I be moderator it is lots of work I know and what do you think site Administrator.
Boy I don`t be in there shoe.
I credit the site Administrator a very,very good job to update the web page special kgronemanrotfl!.
m a moderator like one of you got lots of experience in suse in out,I love to give the service,but I cant luck of my second language is English, I speak not writing Spanish,German,Croatian I understand all of those languages.Not many peoble speak fluently 4 languages.
So don`t tell me about.It is the service.
How do you fell your going to a country you don
t speak there and you go to hotel in a 5star Restaurant have a diner with family of three,you everyone is served.The host ask you how many people 3,you and you family sit down,now in few second a couple sit down far away from you and you observe the server. The server is only one in the restaurant at the moment and the host take more guest to there table,know in a about 6min. later that server take orders from two different table and after the same server take your order you order drinks and foot okay 5min. gone you get the first drinks then those how came after you.At the and you get served the last with the food and how do you feel. You will feel very bad angry ... and that is what Im talking about service,!970`s no computer we had 22/24" tv my mom she was runing her own pub and it went very well and I know all about service,it does not matter what I said if you get paid or not the service is the same,that what people expected.
growbag's Avatar growbag growbag is offline Busy Penguin Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Köln, Deutschland Posts: 379 growbag is on a distinguished road Default Re: Well I`m going:) Learning a second language is not easy, and living in a foreign country and trying to learn the language at the same time is quite hard. I have lots of respect for people who can do that, as I am trying to do the exact same thing. It gives you a new perspective when you try it yourself. It was quite difficult to understand him at times, and I think he got extremely frustrated. Maybe I should have piped up and told him about the babelfish on-line translator site, or my other favourites canoo.net and leo.org. But I never thought of that, oh well . From what I saw though, most people tried to help him, but if nobody can help with a problem, then nobody will answer, which is normal behavior in my book. I think he misinterpreted that as something it wasn't, sadly. Plus I'm sure there is a German language opensuse forum, maybe he could have tried that. Oh well, Tschüß Mike .
Yes it is not easy second,third… to learn those languages.
Bis bald dann und wir werden uns wieder sehn
We are volunteers and hobbyists, not paid service people so you can go jump.
Is there a problem I`m going or did I say something wrong:)
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:36:01 +0000, suse-pro wrote:
> I watching 18 hrs a day different time what is going on.
Well, good for you.
> People do volunteers or get a payroll it makes no different should do
> the same quality job and everyone expect for it. And few of you should
> go back and study about service.
Well, then the expectation is wrong. Plain and simple. I’ve done online
support for 15 years (most of that as a volunteer), and it does make a
> I don`t care if is black,yellow,green,brown… I answer the question if
I can if not,I don`t ignore because I agree to or asking for volunteers
> or get a payroll each why.
Well, again, good for you. However, keep in mind that just answering
with “I don’t know” (a) isn’t terribly helpful, and (b) for some people
who spend their lives in online forums, an answer in a thread is a flag
that someone else is looking at the issue - so by answering when you
don’t know the answer you may be depriving the person asking the question
of an answer.
> If I`m a moderator like one of you got lots of experience in suse in
out,I love to give the service,but I can
t luck of my second language > is English, I speak not writing Spanish,German,Croatian I understand all > of those languages.Not many peoble speak fluently 4 languages. So dont
> tell me about.It is the service.
Well, again, good for you. You speak more than one language. Many
people don’t. Don’t blame the helpers if they don’t speak or write your
You might do well to read Eric Raymond’s essay on asking intelligent
questions; there’s a section on providing help, too.
An “attitude” that says “you should do what I want” is generally not
helpful, ESPECIALLY in an environment where people are volunteering their
time. You’re more likely to be told to go jump than anything else by
copping an attitude.
If you want paid support that’s available 24x7x365 and that isn’t just
a community “best effort”, that’s what the enterprise versions of SUSE
are for. It’s not the community’s fault that it’s not up to your
Not at all. It time I was going too. To lunch at the beach. lol!
Sorry, 18-hour square-eyed screen-watchers. No “service” from me for the next 8 hours or so.
PS: Adios amiga? Shouldn’t you use the plural, amigos?