Using Yast versus Apper

What is the difference between Yast Online Update/Software Manager and Apper ?

Apper appears to be new to Suse 12.x. Is it meant to be a simpler replacement for the equivalent functionality in Yast ? Is it meant to replicate some of what is in Yast ? Is it different from Yast in some way ? I am fairly sure that when i used Apper at some previous time it showed me updates that Yast Online Update did not show me, and I am wondering why this should be so.

Any elucidiation of Yast Software Management versus Apper would be appreciated.

On 10/21/2012 09:56 PM, eldiener wrote:
> Any elucidiation of Yast Software Management versus Apper would be
> appreciated.

YaST is a long time part of SuSE/SUSE/openSUSE and works pretty
perfect…apper is a late arrival made by the KDE folks with the idea of
it becoming the package manager for all distros’ KDE implementation…

in 12.2 and earlier it does not work so good because the it and the zypp
backend are hmmmmm…i forget why…most folks here NEVER use it because
it will OFTEN not agree with YaST and in those cases do NOT trust apper,
instead trust YaST or zypper patch/up

some of my and other recent posts:

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/other-forums/community-fun/soapbox/478961-firefox-updates-2.html#post2496629

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/applications/472976-automatic-updates-apper-useless-packageit-3.html#post2465244

well, it is broke, which is OLD news, just look:
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:forums.opensuse.org+apper+“yast+online+update”


dd http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat

Not a late arrival since there was no appointment or deadline to miss, nor is it deceased. It replaced KPackageKit which actually was a failure, at least on openSUSE. The idea of having a simple frontend (apper) for notification and update included with KDE is reasonable enough.

It was introduced here in 12.1 where it didn’t work so good. It obviously has undergone significant improvement for 12.2. I have been testing it now for several weeks on a cleanly installed 12.2, using it for ALL the hundreds of openSUSE official package updates and patches, plus all the frequent package updates from Packman. There hasn’t been a hiccup from apper so far.

because the it and the zypp backend are hmmmmm…i forget why…most folks here NEVER use it because it will OFTEN not agree with YaST and in those cases do NOT trust apper, instead trust YaST or zypper patch/up

Not surprising you forgot, AFAICT you don’t use it, probably have no first-hand experience with it on 12.2. If that’s true, I don’t understand the need for this constant disparagement. :slight_smile:

Hmmm,

for me Apper still is not quite right.

Case in point.

Just now : zypper up (as root) gives me: “nothing to do” (I did that already a few hours ago)

I no go to Apper.

Apper tells me it wants to update "openSUSE-21012-709 - MozillaFirefox: update to Firefox 16.0.1.

(I already have that…)

If I tell it to apply the change it fails:

patch:openSUSE-2012-709-1.noarch conflicts with MozillaFirefox-translations-common.x86_64 < 16.0.1-2.46.1 provided by MozillaFirefox-translations-common-16.0.1-1.1.x86_64

Well?

Lenwolf

On 10/22/2012 01:26 AM, consused wrote:
> have no first-hand experience with it on 12.2.

true…have not used it on 12.1 or 12.2, if it is fixed now then great!!

i had heard earlier that finally someone was working to fix the long
standing problem (which was noted in 11.x, then with kpackagekit’s
interaction with zypp) and maybe the fix was in for 12.2 (the op asked
about 12.x)

my quest was not to disparage anything, but rather to answer the
question asked…which i thought i did…

now that we know all is swell with the end to end software management
stack of apper-packagekit-zypp in 12.2, you might answer the OP’s
question as: it works perfect in 12.2, but not 12.1 so move to the
newest and smile.

right?


dd

Apper IS “new to Suse 12.x”, but I don’t believe it’s “meant to be a simpler replacement for the equivalent functionality in Yast?” It is meant to be simple to use, but don’t expect it to provide the fully-functional facilities and in-depth information available with YaST.

YaST (YOU & SM) and zypper don’t provide notification on the desktop that updates are available for immediate installation (important for security updates). Apper alone does that.

YaST Online Update is setup to install official patches and package updates from just openSUSE’s Update repo - no others. Apper provides the same facility, but not limited to just the Update repo. Apper will also show you package updates available from the other repos you have currently enabled, e.g. packman repo, but you can deselect those updates if you prefer to do them another way. I’ve had no problem so far executing all the updates on offer, including a kernel update. That should answer this question:

I am fairly sure that when i used Apper at some previous time it showed me updates that Yast Online Update did not show me, and I am wondering why this should be so.

YaST Software Management provides far more information about packages, versions, sources, dependencies, change logs etc. It also provides the ability to sort out more complexity due to package dependencies changing sources, between openSUSE and third-party repos (aka changing vendor). Apper doesn’t handle that complexity. At the lowest level, apper’s activities end up using the zypp library, and performing the equivalent of a simple “zypper update” command.

If your new to package management either on linux or just with openSUSE, I believe you will learn much more about package management and individual packages by using YaST as much as possible, at the begiining. Do keep the number of repos as close to the standard minimum as you can. However not every user has the time or the need to learn about the complexities. Apper does provide a simple and straightforward notifier and updater for those who just need that.

Well, what?

Did something actually go wrong with the updated package? No.

Apper and zypper work at two totally different levels, and you expect to see the same presentation in real time. Before going ahead, did you tell apper to check for updates again (since you already new it was out of date)? I suspect not.

Most of my testing has been carried out just using apper, to see if it was up to the task all by itself, and it is. Why would I need to use two different methods on the same job…

And you would suspect wrong… Of course I did. Lenwolf

I see, so you just forgot to mention it, and I can assume nothing went wrong with the package.

You may of course assume anything you wish… The fact remains that apper proposes to update something which zypper doesn’t - and then fails miserably to do so. Even still today. Lenwolf

Not really, all you can assert is that apper cannot complete an update for the reason given. On the other hand zypper (a different tool) doesn’t. The OP asked for this:

“What is the difference between Yast Online Update/Software Manager and Apper ?” That’s comparing GUI based tools - nothing there about zypper. And this:

“Any elucidiation of Yast Software Management versus Apper would be appreciated.” A comparison between tools, but again not apper versus zypper.

That puts your post rather off topic (IMO), and your issue would fit better elsewhere, so why here? Well perhaps the tone (e.g. “fails miserably”) gives it away. :slight_smile:

BTW, you may be interested in this thread posts #5 and 6, where it appears the hugely popular YaST (with me also) doesn’t offer every patch that “zypper patch” does. IIRC that’s happened before but it doesn’t invalidate YaST Software Management as an excellent tool.

Yes, really. My statement was : The fact remains that apper proposes to update something which zypper doesn’t - and then fails miserably to do so.

And it does. Really.

The OP asked for this:

“What is the difference between Yast Online Update/Software Manager and Apper ?” That’s comparing GUI based tools - nothing there about zypper.

And my reply was to your reply to dd where he stated:

instead trust YaST or zypper patch/up

You said:

“Any elucidiation of Yast Software Management versus Apper would be appreciated.” A comparison between tools, but again not apper versus zypper.

That puts your post rather off topic (IMO), and your issue would fit better elsewhere, so why here? Well perhaps the tone (e.g. “fails miserably”) gives it away. :slight_smile:

First of all, I replied to a comment where zypper was (rightly IMO) mentioned. So no off topic here.
Second, I fail to see why mentioning zypper, when discussing online updating tools could conveivably even BE off topic.
Third, would you care to elucidate just what I’m supposed to have “given away”? I’m not sure I can follow your train of thought here.

BTW, you may be interested in this thread posts #5 and 6, where it appears the hugely popular YaST (with me also) doesn’t offer every patch that “zypper patch” does. IIRC that’s happened before but it doesn’t invalidate YaST Software Management as an excellent tool.

OK noted. Not that I ever mentioned YAST.

LEnwolf

Sigh… so the rest of us were meant to guess at what bits you were replying to, not that it has any bearing on my point? Let’s just “cut to the chase” and save all this replied to x replied to y stuff. Where in the original post is there any question about zypper, or even the word “zypper”? Where does the OP broaden the subject (i.e. Using YaST versus Apper) to a general discussion about “online updating tools”?

No, but the OP did in the subject of the thread, so more topical than zypper. :slight_smile:

I’ve always `zypper up’ updated at the end of each day, but a nice thing about Apper is that it gives some info about each update (e.g. openSUSE-2012-724 - yast2: Fixed detecion whether firewall is running). Is the the same information available from console when using zypper?

P.S. Please no-one mount a high-horse about being off-topic (yes I know zypper is not in the thread’s title). It’s a closely related issue that is not worthy of a new independent thread and I think we can exercise a bit of flexibility and common sense as long as it isn’t taken to extremes. :slight_smile:

To the OP
I never used apper so can’t comment on that.
Maybe if I am using a different distro with kde I will try, but
since I am using openSUSE yast is the way to go it is the
old reliable and unbeatable.

To an extent, I think I can answer my own question; it appears zypper lp' gives a list similar to Apper. Not sure if it's as comprehensive as zypper up’ however.

You could also ask if the same information is available from YaST, and your example update draws one’s attention to YaST Online Update (limited to Update repo). Very often those patches are bundled, so that one line item in YOU will update several installed packages. IIRC, YOU will list the updates including bundles in the left-hand pane, and when you select one of those it will show the packages to be updated or installed, in the right-hand pane.

Apper initially lists updates including bundles, but it only shows you the individual packages to be updated or installed after you accept or modify the initial list. I believe the information provided, including descriptions, is the same or similar for YaST and Apper, but the resulting package count should be identical (and also for zypper lu which lists individual packages, without descriptions).

I see. I thus note for future reference that you may ONLY reply in a thread the the OP’s original question. Interesting. Lenwolf

Thank you consused :slight_smile: . I’ll compare the package updates between Apper, YaST Online Update, and zypper lu when I next find there are new updates! I’ve obviously slightly confused myself with the contents of your first paragraph, where it seems you use updates' (as in zypper lu) and patches’ (as in zypper lp) interchangibly. It will be interesting to compare. :slight_smile:

On 2012-10-24 15:36, consused wrote:
>
> lenwolf;2498374 Wrote:
>> … The fact remains that apper proposes to update something which
>> zypper doesn’t - and then fails miserably to do so.
> Not really, all you can assert is that apper cannot complete an update
> for the reason given. On the other hand zypper (a different tool)
> doesn’t. The OP asked for this:

They should agree; that they don’t is a reportable bug.
After all, apper in the end calls libzyp.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” (Minas Tirith))