Tumbleweed Vs. Factory

Hi Everyone! I have been doing a LOT of research, and after using Ubuntu for awhile I have decided on using openSUSE as my distro of choice. I like Unity, and have found out that you can configure KDE to act similar to Unity which is really cool since I LOVE KDE. Ok, so why am I posting this here? Well, I need some help.

With the upcoming 12.3 release (Way to go!) I need some help deciding if I should go with installing 12.3, installing 12.3 and enabling tumbleweed, installing 12.2, or installing 12.2 and enabling tumbleweed.

I am using an HP laptop, dual-booting with Windows 7 (Until I can get rid of it) and am going to use this for mainly home use. So here are my concerns and questions. I was reading in the latest RC 1 release notes and saw that they replaced MySQL with MariaDB. So does that mean Tumbleweed will do the same? Will you get the same amount of wonderful integration from Tumbleweed as you get from factory? I know 12.3 is 3 weeks away, but I need to install it now. Should I install 12.3, or 12.2? I like having the most up-to-date yet stable software, but would Tumbleweed make a 12.2 system exactly like a 12.3 system?

Thanks for your answers, really appreciate it!

It is (only) my opinion if you can not wait, to go with openSUSE 12.2 and update later when release 12.3 is out and after a few updates have been made. Since openSUSE has a major upgrade every eight months or so, its hard for me to suggest Tumbleweed and surely not Factory (the next openSUSE release basically in motion) unless you like living on the cut wide open edge. I see all sorts of complaints but the bottom line is the front line release ( as openSUSE 12.3 will be) is the most polished and stable and you never have to wait more than a year to fully upgrade everything again, if you want to. Have a look at these for more info:

Portal:Tumbleweed: Portal:Tumbleweed - openSUSE Wiki

AND

Forum: Tumbleweed: https://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/tumbleweed/

AND

Portal:Factory: Portal:Factory - openSUSE Wiki

Thank You,

Thanks for the advice!

If I go ahead and install 12.2, and make some modifications, will those be kept when I upgrade?

On 2013-02-20 01:56, Ham Radio wrote:

> With the upcoming 12.3 release (Way to go!) I need some help deciding
> if I should go with installing 12.3, installing 12.3 and enabling
> tumbleweed, installing 12.2, or installing 12.2 and enabling tumbleweed.

Installing 12.2 and tumbleweed, or 12.3 and tumbleweed are exactly the
same - if you follow the instructions.

In other words, it you have 12.2 and tumbleweed you are automatically
upgraded to 12.3 and tumbleweed the day 12.3 is released.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

I would look at this guide on the subject: SDB:System upgrade - openSUSE Wiki

My own procedure is to do a clean install of the newest openSUSE release but with a custom partition where I elect to use exactly the same partitions in exactly the same locations (I often print out a copy of the YaST Partitioner setup should I have any doubt of being able to remember the previous setup) as before, electing to format only the root / and SWAP partitions, but just mounting the /home and anything other partitions that I have and not formatting them. This leaves me with all of my personnel settings while redoing all system settings and a need to reload all applications. You get close to the best of both worlds (openSUSE Clean install and Upgrade) in my opinion, but read though the provided link and then decide for yourself. Carlos, who has also responded here is big into upgrading openSUSE when ready to switch to a new release. You could ask him for his upgrade advise here.

Thank You,

On 2013-02-20 04:06, jdmcdaniel3 wrote:
>
> Ham_Radio;2528656 Wrote:
>> Thanks for the advice!

> Carlos, who has
> also responded here is big into upgrading openSUSE when ready to
> switch to a new release. You could ask him for his upgrade advise here.

The question then would be, using tumbleweed, or plain 12.2 upgraded to
12.3? I ask because we are in the Tumbleweed forum, and the recommended
method by the developer is to have active the “current” repos plus the
“tumbleweed” repos, and do a zypper dup every week… With that
procedure you are upgraded to 12.3 the minute it it is released, with a
gigabyte sized download of packages.

If we are talking of plain 12.2 to plain 12.3, then the answer may be
different, and I have yet no experience in this particular upgrade.
Usual caveats and procedures apply, starting with the link you supplied,
plus these two for other methods:

Offline upgrade
method

Chapter 16. Upgrading the System and System Changes


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

Only activating the “current” and “tumbleweed” repos is recommended by the devs. And the “current” repos are currently still predominantly a copy of the 12.2 repos. Nearly all packages in 12.3 are newer as 12.2 (=current). So installing 12.3 and making a ‘zypper dup’ will follow a massive downgrade of packages to the versions of “current”. So I would install 12.2, activate the repos as mentioned in https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Tumbleweed and wait until the “current” repos are switched by the devs to 12.3. They will know when it is the best time.

I am facing this question right now re Tumbleweed 12.2 or 12.3.

“installing 12.3”: do RC1 now to test your hardware, uses same “distribution” repos as final release, with some updates already arriving (as and when bugs are fixed). Recently installed this on real hardware, trouble-free so far. You can [dist-upgrade] to final release, and also reach Tumbleweed [dist-upgrade] at or after 12.3 release at a time of your choosing. That gives you an interval to experience the package management (and other services), a useful skill for Tumbleweed.

“installing 12.3 and enabling tumbleweed”: Not available now! Only available at or after 12.3 release, depending on final announcement re revised How To do it and repos etc. Starting from now, this looks like the least-effort route to Tumbleweed. It looks likely that Tumbleweed will have a revised repo structure this time. For you, why bother with the old!

“installing 12.2”. Did this yesterday to replace an 11.4 system. Clean install from existing liveCD plus download, but then a huge download for all updates since release, including a big KDE update to 4.8.5. Having run 12.2 KDE in test since release, it’s my favourite version, stable and best looking (IMO), however 12.3 is built on top of that success.

“installing 12.2 and enabling tumbleweed.” Not worth doing for 3 weeks of life. After installing 12.2, a huge dist-upgrade to Tumbleweed based on 12.2 (includes KDE upgrade, and much more). Why waste time on that, it could soon be obsolete. Following that, another massive dist-upgrade to 12.3 Tumbleweed (upgrade/downgrade/removal of packages).

…in the latest RC 1 release notes and saw that they replaced MySQL with MariaDB. So does that mean Tumbleweed will do the same?

Probably and in theory at least, since it follows the standard release and packages must be available in Factory to be included in Tw.

Will you get the same amount of wonderful integration from Tumbleweed as you get from factory?

Not noticed any major shortfalls in the past with Tumbleweed (using KDE, and other installed by default applications).

I know 12.3 is 3 weeks away, but I need to install it now. Should I install 12.3, or 12.2? I like having the most up-to-date yet stable software, but would Tumbleweed make a 12.2 system exactly like a 12.3 system?

We don’t know what a 12.3 Tumbleweed looks like right now. Aiming at packagers’ latest but stable upgrades, Tumbleweed has had a successful history (11.4, 12.1, and 12.2). There are overheads like large upgrades e.g. KDE, Gnome, and those frequent LibreOffice downloads, in addition to regular openSUSE patches and security updates.

Based on effort, download, and time overheads, I have decided to set up 12.3 now, continually updating it over next three weeks or so, then enable it with Tumbleweed on announcement of the detailed requirements. But, also have my main system, 12.2 in parallel, so I can test new Tumbleweed over an appropriate period to see if it could replace that.

OK, then lets have fingers crossed that this works.
I had current and Tumbleweed activated in 12.1. When 12.2 was released, Tumbleweed was flushed, causing a larger downgrade (as 12.1+Tumbleweed was more up-to-date as 12.2). Useless to say that this caused some trouble on myThinkPad T520.
Actually I love the idea of a rolling release, but that would mean that Tumbleweed would keep the latest development.
Is this the plan for the 12.3-upgade?

If you read this thread, you will know as much as we do: https://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/tumbleweed/482931-tumbleweed-future-directions.html

On 2013-02-25 10:36, DocB wrote:

> OK, then lets have fingers crossed that this works.
> I had current and Tumbleweed activated in 12.1. When 12.2 was released,
> Tumbleweed was flushed, causing a larger downgrade (as 12.1+Tumbleweed
> was more up-to-date as 12.2). Useless to say that this caused some
> trouble on myThinkPad T520.

This is the expected behaviour.

> Actually I love the idea of a rolling release, but that would mean that
> Tumbleweed would keep the latest development.

Notice that tumbleweed tracks factory, actually just a bit behind.
That’s not the same as the latest: the latest is factory.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

Although I read DocB’s comment as “Tumbleweed would keep [its] latest development”.

The maintainer of Tumbleweed, Greg Kroah Hartman, suggested Tumbleweed to become a real rolling release, where the released versions could be based on snapshots from Tumbleweed instead of Factory. Tried to find the thread on G+, but the man has too many and too long threads to read through.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:26:02 +0000, Knurpht wrote:

> The maintainer of Tumbleweed, Greg Kroah Hartman, suggested Tumbleweed
> to become a real rolling release, where the released versions could be
> based on snapshots from Tumbleweed instead of Factory.

I said what? Where?

> Tried to find the
> thread on G+, but the man has too many and too long threads to read
> through.

I talked about the future direction of Tumbleweed here.

Anyway, no, I’m not thinking of changing how packages get added to
Tumbleweed, or how it works, just that it might end up including ALL of
the packages in the latest released distro version, instead of being a
small subset that goes on top.

Still haven’t figured out what I’m going to do yet, I have until 12.3 is
out to make up my mind :slight_smile:

Hope this helps,

greg k-h