Since a couple of weeks my Tumbleweed KDE update applet acts weird.
If there are updates the applet says I have to run ‘zypper dup’ manually to install the updated packages (see screenshot below).
Had a little chat with nobody less but übergeeko Michael Brown about it on Twitter and he asked me to file a bug report. Since ‘zypper dup’ should only be used to upgrade to a new release.
The problem is I have no idea where to begin, since I don’t have a clue what (package) exactly causes this problem.
I tried to update using the KDE Discover app, which fails (usually freezes somewhere during the process).
In fact ‘zypper dup’ does the update job, yet I always have to do that from a (virtual) terminal. It worked like a charm before from the KDE update applet.
Tumbleweed is a new release every time. Thus, the only supported way of updating is:
zypper dup
The updater applet is specially changed to tell you so, because many people did not understand that and tried to update either using that applet or with zypper up. Often breaking their system in the process.
You should ALWAYS only use zypper dup to update Tumbleweed. Because it is a “running” (well tested) development version, every release from Tumbleweed is a new version release. Never use the updater (that is in fact also what the message in the updater tells you!
Then übergeeko Michael Brown is plain wrong, see what the others wrote in this thread
The problem is I have no idea where to begin, since I don’t have a clue what (package) exactly causes this problem.
I tried to update using the KDE Discover app, which fails (usually freezes somewhere during the process).
In fact ‘zypper dup’ does the update job, yet I always have to do that from a (virtual) terminal. It worked like a charm before from the KDE update applet.
No it didn’t. ‘dup’ can include downgrade of packages, architecture change and so on, ‘up’ ( used by the applet ) can’t. And, yes, this can seriously bork your system.
I know that we say to only use zypper dup, but isn’t it technically true that you get the same effect by running the YaST software module, and using the “update all packages if newer version available” function as long as “don’t allow vendor change” is checked? Seems in my tests that it gives the exact same results as zypper dup. I’d be interested to know if there’s a difference.
NO.
There is no formal relationship between version numbering between distributions. And each Tumbleweed snapshot should be considered a separate distribution. Sometimes the version numbers go down for a package from one snapshot to the next. Also “updating” does not necessarily remove deprecated files.
Try reading a good selection of the Tumbleweed threads in these forums and you will understand that tyro attempts to “update” together with the inclusion of inappropriate repositories constitute the most common causes of Tumbleweed problems.
My two cents
Thumbleweed recommends zypper … but
Yast would be better for a new user, a graphical interface is always better than a dark terminal.
And make Yast eligible default to update Thumbleweed, it would be better
There are no updates for Tumbleweed. There have only ever been a couple of security patches. The “dup” is an abbreviation for “distribution upgrade”.
There is an expectation that Tumbleweed, and to an even greater extent Factory, users will be experienced/skilled.
YaST has only ever been intended for administration of a running system. “zypper dup
” is the expert’s flexible substitute for the graphical installer software provided on the Tumbleweed snapshot images (ISOs). These remain the recommended method of installing and upgrading for tyros.
I agree that new users might find that easier to use. On the other hand, people who are new to linux would be better off starting with Leap rather than with Tumbleweed.
As an addition I offer the thought that a distribution upgrade, when not done from the ISO (and thus acting on the not running system), when done on a running system it is best done with as less running processes as possible. Thus runlevel 1 seems a save way to go. And that automatically means no GUI available.
AFAIK the same is recommended for an on-line distribution update from e.g. 42.3 to 15.0. For the same reasons.
It is not my intention to be right, I was thinking of a new user who must use the terminal to update Thumbleweed, and in my view it would be better to have something graphic, the end of the speech.
And the answer is, as you can decide from all the reactions above, that it is not possible (well, depending on what all is updated, it might succeed, but no guarantee). It is in fact an action which must be done without a running graphics, probably even without running YaST (in this case the ncurses interface).
So the idea that it would be nice if it can be run from a graphics tool maybe true, but is not applicable.
Oh, and you saying all the time
Correct me if I’m wrong .
of course invites people to simply say “wrong” when you suggest something that can’t be done.
On 07/14/2018 11:56 AM, hcvv wrote:
>
> enziosavio;2873573 Wrote:
>> Thumbleweed, and in my view it would be better to have something
>> graphic, the end of the speech.
> And the answer is, as you can decide from all the reactions above, that
> it is not possible (well, depending on what all is updated, it might
> succeed, but no guarantee). It is in fact an action which must be done
> without a running graphics, probably even without running YaST (in this
> case the ncurses interface).
>
> So the idea that it would be nice if it can be run from a graphics tool
> maybe true, but is not applicable.
>
>
I almost always run
code:
zypper dup
/code:
from a konsole window and don’t have issues. So stating "It is in fact
an action which must be done without a running graphics, probably even
without running YaST (in this case the ncurses interface) is in fact
false. True, it is recommended but not mandatory.
–
Ken
linux since 1984
S.u.S.E./openSUSE since 1998
Things are always recommendations. We do not force you to do or to not do anything. There is advice and there are arguments to support the advice. Then you decide what to do.
