Tumbleweed is supposed to be cutting edge but stable, but really is anything but...

English Install/Boot/Login
1
  1. I tried upgrading to Tumbleweed from OSS 13.2; failed miserably, couldn’t boot the system up.
  2. So I downloaded the NetImage and performed an install of a complete system.
  3. Followed procedures to add repositories, but there are two repository addresses floating out there, especially for the Update repo
  4. Neither worked, Yast says I don’t have an Update repo designated.
  5. In addition, gnome-main-menu is not included in the Tumbleweed build.
    [LIST=1]
  6. As a result when MATE comes up, it has no menu
  7. Tried to install gnome-main-menu manually, I find two versions in Factory, gnome-main-menu and caja-gnome-main-menu
  8. Tried both, neither will install

[/LIST]

So I’m wondering, if Tumbleweed is stable enough for use. I don’t mind the occasional snafu, and don’t mind reporting errors, but I have two problems:
a. Can’t find the Tubmleweed development forums to report errors in; Unless I am supposed to report them to the main bug database?
b. Can’t find the Mate areas; I’ve even gone to the IRC, but there appears to be no one there.

Now I am stuck without and update repo, which means no updates. I’ve tried to fix it a few times by deleting the current repos and adding what I see in the forums/wiki, but they don’t seem to work

Anyone have any ideas? Has anyone installed Tumbleweed and Mate successfully?

Tas Papadopoulos

2

On 2015-08-11 03:36, 70tas wrote:

> - Followed procedures to add repositories, but there are two
> repository addresses floating out there, especially for the Update
> repo

Tumbleweed doesn’t need an Update repository. You are seeing a problem
where there is none :slight_smile:

Stability: depends how you define it and what are your expectations.

> a. Can’t find the Tubmleweed development forums to report errors in;
> Unless I am supposed to report them to the main bug database?

There is the Factory mail list, and there is Bugzilla, for official
reports with verified issues. Plus, you have these forums.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))

3

They are either empty, or do not exist. Ignore them.

Yes, Yast Online Update will probably complain. But you should not use Yast Online Update for Tumbleweed. Instead, use either

# zypper up
### or
# zypper dup

(people disagree between those – I normally use “zypper dup”)

As a result when MATE comes up, it has no menu

I haven’t tried MATE with Tumbleweed. I do have it installed on one box for 13.2. There, I told it to delete the Gnome main menu from the configuration (to avoid that error). And I found that I could easily add a MATE menu to the panel.

So I’m wondering, if Tumbleweed is stable enough for use. I don’t mind the occasional snafu, and don’t mind reporting errors, but I have two problems:

There was a discussion of stability on the factory mailing list. You should probably follow that. Some people thought that Tumbleweed was too unstable, others were satisfied with its stability. Personally, I’m satisfied, though I did not participate in that email discussion. (Check at “lists.opensuse.org” for mailing lists).

4

Tumbleweed is near cutting edge. if you are looking for 5 9s I don’t think I’d choose near cutting edge.I’ve been using 13.2 fo a long time now and it has been rock solid except for one bad NVIDIA related kernel update which was fixed quickly and easy to work around I have had no problems with 13.2. But it all depends on what you need and what you expect

5

I switched to it a few months ago, really once plasma 5 seemed mature enough.
It was a clean install from DVD and KDE chosen.
So far no stability issues at all.

6

Hello,

Unlike openSUSE regular releases’, Tumbleweed’s standard repos (I mean repo-oss and repo-non-oss) are not frozen: they are frequently updated and are the main sources of updates.

But there really is an update repo (don’t ignore it!): http://download.opensuse.org/update/tumbleweed/ (don’t forget the last / if you want to see it in a web browser).

It is used only for urgent security updates which must be applied immediately (no time for testing/creating a new snapshot). Most of the time this repo is empty because repo-oss and repo-non-oss are regularly updated but sometimes it is used. For example, at least one recent Flash-player update was first delivered in this update repository before being integrated to repo-non-oss.

Please see YaST → Software Repositories → Add → Community Repositories to see description of available Tumbleweed repositories.

Regards,

Antoine

7

Thank you to everyone who responded.

First, I’d like to address the comments about Tumbleweed isn’t five .9’s. I did not expect it to be five nines, but if it is a stable, progressive rolling release, then I expect a lesser number of issues than I see in the forum.

Secondly, “nrickert,” you were right on the money: Menu based or GUI YAST software updates do not work in Tumbleweed. The command line “zypper dup” does, and it downloaded almost 1GB of updates. Thank you. However, I could not find that, or as my wife usually says it was right in front of me and I did nopt see it, in the forums or wiki.

How can we go about adding that in so others may benefit. I don’t mind putting a short section together; but I don’t know what else should be added.

8

In response to my comment about MATE, I have not been able to find an answer. I even add the production repos and installed gnome-main-menu and dependencies, but that did not appear to help.

All of my efforts to contact someone in the MATE group have failed. I’ve sat in the IRC for days with no response. Which leads me to believe MATE may be a dead effort on OSS. Especially since it appears to be a tertiary effort and not part of the official OSS releases. Too bad, I can’t stand GNOME 3x, which to me, is a clone of Windows 8; especially having to add extension to my Desktop, what a joke.

MATE seems to be a good replacement for non-KDE folks on OSS, especially the beautiful (Novell) Gnome-Main-Menu. Alas, not in Tumbleweed, and I don’t know if it will be in future versions of OSS.

So I am at crosspoint again… But more on that later.

9

On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 15:06:01 GMT
70tas <70tas@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com> wrote:

> Secondly, “nrickert,” you were right on the money: Menu based or
> GUI YAST software updates do not work in Tumbleweed. The command line
> “zypper dup” does, and it downloaded almost 1GB of updates. Thank
> you. However, I could not find that, or as my wife usually says it
> was right in front of me and I did nopt see it, in the forums or wiki.

I use YaST for updating TW without any (well, not much) trouble but then
I use “Software Management” instead of “Online Update” and then click on
“Package - All Packages - Update if newer version available”. For all I
know, that might equate to “zypper dup”, or it might not, but I’ve been
using that method for over a decade and this old dog likes to stick to
his old tricks.

–
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
openSUSE 13.2 (64-bit); KDE 4.14.9; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor;
Kernel: 4.1.3; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver);
Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)

10

On 2015-08-11 17:26, Graham P Davis wrote:

> I use YaST for updating TW without any (well, not much) trouble but then
> I use “Software Management” instead of “Online Update” and then click on
> “Package - All Packages - Update if newer version available”. For all I
> know, that might equate to “zypper dup”, or it might not, but I’ve been
> using that method for over a decade and this old dog likes to stick to
> his old tricks.

It equates to “zypper up”. If you select “update unconditionally” I
think it equates to “zypper dup”.

There is (was?) also a module in yast called factory update or something
similar. I have not used it in years, but it might be the thing for
Tumbleweed. If it still works.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))

11

On 2015-08-11 17:16, 70tas wrote:
> MATE seems to be a good replacement for non-KDE folks on OSS, especially
> the beautiful (Novell) Gnome-Main-Menu. Alas, not in Tumbleweed, and I
> don’t know if it will be in future versions of OSS.

Try XFCE.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” (Minas Tirith))

12

I did. I am running XFCE. However, XFCE has its own issues as well, which will hopefully be addressed.

I have been running SuSE since I gave up on Caldera, a long time ago. The reason I liked it is because it offered a plethora of packages, and YAST modules to manage them. Lately, however…

The issues I’m running into are:

[ol]
[li]OpenSuSE[/li][LIST=1]
[li]Since the wiki re-org a few years back, the docs have not been updated. I keep following the instructions in the configuration files, but there are multiple configurations and they say different things[/li][li]There seem to be less and less YAST modules, and the new ones do not provide the full function of the older ones, i.e. DHCP/DNS[/li][li]There are less third party packages available, i.e. IPAM, Policeing, Shaping, IDS/IPS; there are some, but they are unsupported, and of course there are no YAST modules to manage them.[/li][/ol]

[li]Tumbleweed[/li][ol]
[li]I don’t mind being on the leading edge; Tumbleweed seemed perfect because it states it is a stable but progressive and rolling release[/li][LIST=1]
[li]I have spent countless hours trying to get Tumbleweed to run MATE which was my favorite[/li][li]MATE, of course, is not an OpenSuSE project; I have spent lots of time searching and trying to contact someone to help with the broken MATE packages in Tumbleweed No success.[/li][li]Tumbleweed’s open-vmware tools do not work; I’ve uninstalled them and installed VMware tools, but can’t get the video sized properly.[/li][li]I’ve tried to use the ‘cvt/xrandr’ tools to modify X, but that was a wasted effort.[/li][/ol]
[/LIST]
[/LIST]

So, I’m at a quandary; I am not a programmer and can’t help with coding. I could help with documentation, but I have to be able to get some answers to issues I am running across, which, is not happening.

YAST which is SuSE’s most valuable jewel, is languishing, and so is the documentation which used to be the best out there. Third party packages, well, no one seems interested in supporting them in OSS.

Am I the only one seeing these issues? I am not trying to start a war here, I have been a very loyal SuSE user. However, I am expressing thoughts about issues I see. I AM WILLING to HELP in any way. The problem is I can’t keep spending hours upon hours pulling my hair out.

And yes I know I can ask for help, but the usual responses are:

[ul]
[li]don’t do that,[/li][li]don’t use that package[/li][li]use a different UI[/li][li]Linux/Unix is not made for Active Directory[/li][li]you are flaming SuSE (I’m not, honestly).[/li][/ul]

I don’t know anyone in the development core to address this to, I am hoping they will see it, and if not respond outright, perhaps take it back for discussion internally.

So for now, I’m going back to OSS standard with MATE, and I will be testing FW. I don’t like FW because there is no management system like YAST. Open to suggestions.
Thank you
70tas

13

On Yast modules, note that they are not all installed by default.

For example, “yast-dns-server” is not normally installed. I think it was part of a normal install back when I last ran a local DNS server. So maybe you are just noticing some components that are not automatically installed.

I can’t comment on your other issues. I haven’t tried MATE under Tumbleweed. However the MATE maintainer does occasionally post to the factory mailing list.

14

On 2015-08-18 18:56, 70tas wrote:
> - There seem to be less and less YAST modules, and the new ones do
> not provide the full function of the older ones, i.e. DHCP/DNS

YaST needs contributors, they had to drop modules because they couldn’t
keep them, not enough manpower. On the other hand, they dedicated about
a release cycle (13.1?) to migrate YaST from the internal language they
used (ycp) to another one (ruby), so that “external” contributors can
add patches or modules.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

15

about mate it has nothing to do with TW, I had a similar issue with 13.2
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/502119-Problem-using-Mate-with-13-2?p=2691413#post2691413
if there is a missing visual element mate crashes, maybe the mate maintainers should package a default visual package (visual styles, icons, wallpapers etc.) and not depend on gnome.
A nice lite DE is lxqt.

16

Well, it has been a long trek, but I think I’ve finally gotten to a stable state. So here are the major issues I was having and how I’ve resolved them:

  • MATE - appears broken, and does not have a team willing to fix it. I’ve given up on Mate for good
  • GNOME - Sorry, I hate that UI; When Microsoft release Windows 8, they heard the people and redesigned the interface; GNOME thinks they know best; Bye GNOME
  • XFCE - Perfect. It may not be the latest and greatest, but it is the most stable and progressive. I’ve gone back to XFCE, and with that many of my Tumbleweek issues W E N T A W A Y ! ! !
  • VMware Workstation (11.1.2), Tumbleweed and Open SuSE VMs must be configured with a fixed Display size, and with 3D enabled. Once installed, go in and install the tools provided by VMware in addition to the open-vm-tools.

Voila!

  • Working Tumbleweed and Desktop.

Still having some issues with the updates, I will have to see what happens. I installed auto-update and it may have worked. Time will tell.

70tas

17

Tumbleweed updates for the most part do not come from the update repo. You update by running zypper dup

18

70tas,

I have been running Tumbleweed for several years now with very few problems, even on a 2011 Macbook Pro 17. I have found that Virtual Box works very well on a Tumbleweed host including dynamic window sizing. If you can convert your VMware virtual machines to Virtual Box, I think you might be happier.

Take care,
Richard.

19

:expressionless:
Yes, I’ve gotten much advise from both these forums and the BSD’s about changing the VH. However, it is what we use at work, and it is what I have been using for over 10 years, I’m not about to change now. ESPECIALLY, since I’ve resolved that issue.

On a side note, one of the big issues I’m seeing lately both in the open source and closed source world, is lack of documentation updates. And I’m not referring to formal docs, but for example with VMWare Workstation 11, would it have been really that hard to state in the Release Notes that from this version forward, you must set 3D on, in order to get dynamic sizing, even with the open-vm-tools? I think not… My opinion is that this is a dis-service to the products, because it frustrates users; there are tons of conversations in the community forums, but no developer/admin from either camp posts the simple solution.

I would love to be able to help with OpenSuSE, since I was blasted out of the FBSD forums in vile terms; People here have their opinions, but they appear to be a more open bunch, at least in discussions. So if anyone from the OSS group is reading this, I may be able to help in a non-development task, as time permits;

So, FYI, now what I am dealing with, is the GCC-5 problem with VMWare. I purchased the VMUG membership which gives me a 50% discount on VMW, but of course when I try to use it, it doesn’t work, not that I can tell if VMW 12 fixes the issue. I find Community trails about the GCC-5 issue, but no solution. The VM KB’s are no help, of course.
The reason I am trying to compile the VM tools, is because I’ve lost the ability to cut and paste between my vhosts.

Oh well, I will figure it out, and I will post something here.

My, my, I’ve got verbal-rrhea. Sorry, when I find a sympathetic ear, I get going. Thank you for your response.

Tas

20

Hah! Got it.

Since my disappointment with MATE, I changed my OSS main system to GNOME 3.x to see what, if anything had changed.

Copy and Paste will NOT work on GNOME. It works just fine in my Tumbleweed with XFCE.

Tas