Tumbleweed Down?

I did a zypper refresh and I get this:

Permission to access 'http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/repodata/repomd.xml' denied.

Trying to access http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/ gets me to http://widehat.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/ note the subdomain, is this a mirror to the repos (which happens to lack TW)??
Problems with the server or something else?

On Tue, 01 May 2012 02:16:04 +0000, kozzington wrote:

> I did a zypper refresh and I get this:

See the announcements forum. The server that hosts the downloads had a
hardware failure.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

They seriously don’t have a backup server.

This is something to critical to just go down and leave people high and dry.

Is there any ETA? Its been down since last night. Is it just going to be “it will be up when its up”?

On 2012-05-01 22:56, vdub12 wrote:

> They seriously don’t have a backup server.

It is not an state of the art installation, no.

> This is something to critical to just go down and leave people high and
> dry.

Well, as we don’t pay for it…

> Is there any ETA? Its been down since last night. Is it just going to
> be “it will be up when its up”?

No ETA, as soon as they can.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

What does paying for it have anything to do with it?

I am sure if they needed the money for a backup server all they would have to do is ask. I would put my money where my mouth is and I am sure almost everyone reading this would drop a few bucks to. I don’t use Linux because its free. I use Linux because its Linux. Honestly I have never paid for Windows ether, lol, but I am still using Linux. Its because its better not because its free. For that mater I have paid for SUSE before. Its the only operating system I have ever paid for, Microsoft tax aside. Yes it was version 8 and it was because I was on dial up and could not download it but that was my first experience in Linux and the cost did not bother me, I wanted it because its better.

I guess my point is, I am getting sick of Ubuntu being number 1 when SUSE is so much better, and older, but things like this don’t help SUSE’s cause so if they need money to make it better then they should just ask and the community would pull together. Its a whole lot better then just letting a critical part of there update system just go down. This isn’t the first time this has happened. I notice it go down at least every few months. You don’t see Windows update going down like this. I think this should be a priority. openSUSE is the best and most solid Linux distro’s available. Why a tiny Debian distro overshadows them I have no idea. I have used it and I am not impressed. However, stuff like this just doesn’t help.

On Tue, 01 May 2012 20:56:02 +0000, vdub12 wrote:

> They seriously don’t have a backup server.

First of all - don’t shoot the messenger. :slight_smile:

They do. They’re copying the data from it. There’s several terabytes of
data, and it takes time to move that much data.

The drives are redundant arrays, but they had two drives fail in the
array.

> This is something to critical to just go down and leave people high and
> dry.
>
> Is there any ETA? Its been down since last night. Is it just going to be
> “it will be up when its up”?

They’re working as quickly as they can. Some people have reported that
it appears to be working now. Others have seen performance issues
because rebuilding the parity stripe takes time and resources.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On Wed, 02 May 2012 02:46:02 +0000, vdub12 wrote:

> but things like this don’t help SUSE’s cause so if they need money to
> make it better then they should just ask and the community would pull
> together.

Everybody involved is aware that it doesn’t look good. Painfully aware.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

Of course we have no “right” to “expect” 24/7/365 uptime, however from a P.R. standpoint this sort of event does make our favorite distro look really bad. For that reason we do like to think that “the powers that be” would share our concern and invest the funds needed to have a fully capable standy backup server ready at all times. (remember Murphy’s Law?).

Yes, we could even offer to donate if needed.

Here’s my tale of woe. I think it makes my point rather well.

A friend/customer approached me last year and asked if I could offer her a solution to a variety of MS Windoze related issues. I suggested Linux, but that sounded too drastic to her. About a month later she was back and desperate. OpenSUSE 11.4 got installed on her laptop. She’s called me several times since to tell me how happy she is that her lappy hasn’t needed service since. (tough on my revenue stream though :wink:

Last Sunday she was back. Her Laptop had died and she’d bought a new one.

“I have to fly out on Tuesday. Can you load Linux and all my applications in time for my trip?”

“No problem” I replied

Well it was a problem… a big problem. She’s now overseas for three week with no laptop! It seems her tech friend had wiped out Windows 8 and then been unable to finish loading openSUSE.

I wonder how many people will hear that story from her over the next three weeks?

On Wed, 02 May 2012 13:46:02 +0000, caprus wrote:

> however from a P.R. standpoint this sort of event does make our favorite
> distro look really bad

Of course it does, and as I said, everyone involved is painfully aware of
the PR effects of having the main repo server down for a day.

I’m not sure why people think telling tales of woe like this is helpful -
do they think that the people involved are completely unaware of the
impact of such an outage?

There was a post this morning that the rebuild has completed now, so it
should be back up and running.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

I’m no longer concerned about the recent crash and rebuild. That’s ancient history at this point. My intent was and is to stimulate thought towards learning from this experience and being proactive about avoiding similar problems in the future.

Please, please do not think anything I’ve said is intended as criticism of the individuals who must have been busting their butts to resolve the recent crisis. I’ve had no problems at all updating software and completing installations today. I’m fully aware of how hard the restoration task was, and I am very, very grateful to them for their efforts.

Nevertheless, IMHO patting ourselves on the back because the rebuild is complete does little to address the real issue.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:46:04 +0000, caprus wrote:

> I’m no longer concerned about the recent crash and rebuild. That’s
> ancient history at this point. My intent was and is to stimulate
> thought towards learning from this experience and being proactive about
> avoiding similar problems in the future.

I think it’s a fairly good assumption that those responsible for
maintaining the systems are doing a post-mortem on the problem and
determining how to prevent an outage. That’s generally considered part
of standard IT operating procedures.

> Please, please do not think anything I’ve said is intended as criticism
> of the individuals who must have been busting their butts to resolve the
> recent crisis. I’ve had no problems at all updating software and
> completing installations today. I’m fully aware of how hard the
> restoration task was, and I am very, very grateful to them for their
> efforts.

I don’t think you intended it - and I perhaps reacted a little strongly.
We’ve had a number of systems that have had issues (including these
forums), and being in a position of seeing the problems up close but not
close enough to actually have a hand in fixing them is incredibly
frustrating.

There does seem to be a bunch of people who think that these issues are
being taken lying down. I’ve seen far more activity with this recent
spat of problems across various openSUSE systems than I have in the past,
and I’m encouraged (but still “waiting to see” - you can only be told “we
fixed it this time” so many times before becoming cynical about it).

> Nevertheless, IMHO patting ourselves on the back because the rebuild is
> complete does little to address the real issue.

Nobody who is responsible for the system reads this forum. :slight_smile:

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

The community behind Ubuntu is able to reach more people with their kind of approach and spirit, also you have to admit. Ubuntu is more noob friendly in installing.
openSUSE installer and YAST have 10 x more options to offer Ubuntu has but it also makes it more complicated for a first time user.

Beside, be happy. Mint = ubuntu with restricted software delivered. If Ubuntu had decided to deliver their distro with restricted soft integrated … they did not at the beginning because of the hard core GPL adepts crying but look at Mint’s position in Distrowatch …

Now during install Ubuntu requests the users if he wants this kind of soft enabled and that’s about it. Nice idea for openSUSE to do same.

openSUSE should have maybe a noob install and a normal install enabled and maybe also after install a 1 click button enabling all the needed repo’s at once and online auto update instead of searching the web to find the right page with 1 click button.

On 2012-05-03 10:16, B3rtm3n wrote:

> The community behind Ubuntu is able to reach more people with their

This is going off-topic for this subforum, but anyway…

> but it also makes it more complicated for a first time user.

I installed suse in 98 and found it very easy - and I was a total novice
with no internet to go for help.

> Now during install Ubuntu requests the users if he wants this kind of
> soft enabled and that’s about it. Nice idea for openSUSE to do same.

It needs action on the part of the user because of legal reasons. A company
with business in the USA has to do that.

> openSUSE should have maybe a noob install and a normal install enabled

It has that.

> and maybe also after install a 1 click button enabling all the needed
> repo’s at once and online auto update instead of searching the web to
> find the right page with 1 click button.

All needed repos are active at first install. The rest are extras you
have to choose - and the most important ones are in the default list one
click away.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

Hihi, here in Germany a court ordered yesterday (May 2nd 2012) that Microsoft is no longer allowed to sell Windows 7 in Germany: heise online | Motorola erwirkt Vertriebsverbot gegen Microsoft Sorry, only in German, but Motorola and Microsoft battle over some patents, no idea. The point is: you even can not be sure to be able to deliver a windows machine!

And besides that, never start an installation without a tested, reliable DVD.

Regards,

Alexander

It has that.

Dear Carlos

There is a difference between perception, sensation and reality.
Most more advanced users and developers tend to forget that what they perceive is not the way how it is experienced by another group of users.

I once worked with an IT comp who was aware of that and they had someone in between how could understand the thoughts and needs of the clients and had the software adapted to their needs because most developers, like the developers of that company and more advanced users think different from the common mass. Only few have that ‘fingerspitzengefuhl’ which brings products that (can) change the world.

If you want to know how good openSUSE is as ‘out of the box’ and easy. Have your grandmother f.ex install openSUSE and you will know what I mean :wink:

On Thu, 03 May 2012 13:16:02 +0000, B3rtm3n wrote:

> There is a difference between perception, sensation and reality.
> Most more advanced users and developers tend to forget that what they
> perceive is not the way how it is experienced by another group of users.

I would suggest looking through openFATE and seeing if there’s an item
for this - if there is, vote for it, and if there isn’t, then create one
with specific suggestions as to how to improve the installer for new
users.

I have to admit that the installer seems to be pretty straightforward,
but some specific feedback from someone who finds it too complicated
certainly would be welcome in the enhancement system.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-05-03 18:21, Jim Henderson wrote:
> I have to admit that the installer seems to be pretty straightforward,
> but some specific feedback from someone who finds it too complicated
> certainly would be welcome in the enhancement system.

It has two modes, simple and complete, or however they are called. The
default one makes a lot of choices for you for simplicity.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

On Thu, 03 May 2012 23:28:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2012-05-03 18:21, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I have to admit that the installer seems to be pretty
>> straightforward,
>> but some specific feedback from someone who finds it too complicated
>> certainly would be welcome in the enhancement system.
>
> It has two modes, simple and complete, or however they are called. The
> default one makes a lot of choices for you for simplicity.

Yes, but for someone who doesn’t have the experience you or I have,
perhaps there’s something that could be done differently to make it
simpler - hence the suggestion for an openFATE entry that spells out
specifically what is viewed as too complex and how to improve it.

It’s one thing to say “it could be simpler for new users”, another to
have to think about how one might make it easier. That’s what I’m hoping
to get the OP to think about and provide some information about.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-05-04 04:02, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 03 May 2012 23:28:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> It has two modes, simple and complete, or however they are called. The
>> default one makes a lot of choices for you for simplicity.
>
> Yes, but for someone who doesn’t have the experience you or I have,
> perhaps there’s something that could be done differently to make it
> simpler - hence the suggestion for an openFATE entry that spells out
> specifically what is viewed as too complex and how to improve it.

Well, as I said, I installed SuSE in 1998 without help, on my own, a
complete Linux novice, and I thought it was easy then O:-) It is surely
easier now.

Ok, I recogn I don’t know what the simple mode of installation does, and I
don’t intend to try it to learn - simple mode is too simple for me and I
can’t stand it. I’m spoiled, so somebody else has to do it and tell us :slight_smile:

However, I don’t think that’s a subject appropriate for the tumbleweed
forum, we are off-topic here. Chit-chat perhaps?


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)