Thinking about a new laptop...

English Open Chat
1

I am hoping to purchase a new laptop before the end of the year. I am trying to start a web consulting business, and I’d like to invest in a good portable computer. My bias is currently strong toward Dell, as I have said before. However, I am open to other choices.

My price range is in the -US$1000s; base specs are at least C2D@+2GHz,4GBs of memory, +13.3" screen (but less than 17"), and some high speed ports (Firewire, USB 2.0 or eSATA); I do some audio recording as a hobby, and I’d like to be able to connect to a fast external drive. SSDs are nice but pretty much out of my price range.

I am looking seriously at the Dell Studio 15. I know several other forum members have used it successfully, it’s a good looking machine, a reasonably priced; as most Dells are. oldcpu’s threadwas very enlightening (and enjoyable!).

My only concern, is that once I upgraded the Studio’s specs to match my base, and add a few extras like backlit keyboard, 802.11n, I am already in the +$900 range, and dangerously close to the $1099 price tag on the really nice Studio XPS 13. The XPS Studio is smaller, but it meets all my minimum specs at it’s lowest price, in addition to a faster CPU, DDR3 memory, all the little extras I had to add to the Studio 15, and in a really slick package.

But I am not at all certain of the linux compatibility of the Studio XPS line. So far the only hangup I’ve seen is the optional Nvidia hybrid graphics, which I am not interested in.

Has anyone used the Studio XPS line with openSUSE (or linux in general)? What about those of you with the Studio 15, has it been a solid performer? Are there similar laptops by other manufacturers that I should consider?

2

I’m about to call it a night, so I’ll keep this short …

A key requirement for me in the Dell Studio 15, was I wanted the 15.4" screen. When I go on business, or my wife and I go on vacation, we watch movies on the laptop, and hence we wanted a larger screen. But the 17" was too big for us to carry, so the 15.4" appeared ideal for 2 people movie watching.

The second requirement was I wanted to be able to encode videos. Hence I wanted a faster processor. But I also wanted longer battery life, hence I also had to compromise a bit on the processor as I did not want a processor that ate up the battery quickly. The Intel Core2 duo P8400 in the Dell Studio 15 worked for me.

As noted, I wanted longer battery life. The Dell had a 9cell battery option (ie a bigger longer life battery, … also heavier) that I went for.

I also wanted reliability in the graphic card. As much as I like nVidia, their reliability is horrible due to some serious quality problems. I’ll accept a nVidia in a desktop at home, where I have backup graphic cards and back up PCs, but I will not accept quality problems in a laptop. Its too painful to have a laptop fail when on the road. Hence I chose a laptop that had an ATI radeon. Intel graphics were having MAJOR problems with xorg at the time, and I did not want to delve into that.

I also wanted a wireless that “just worked”. Research indicated that with the 2.6.27 kernel (in openSUSE-11.1) the Intel WiFi Link 5300 AGN wireless that I chose would be easy to get running (and it was - it “just worked”).

I think I documented my other considerations at the time. The HP DV 5 looked very tempting.

If it had not been for the 15.4" screen requirement, and the desire to encode videos at a reasonably fast speed (ie a faster CPU), I would have been tempted by a small Samsung NC10 with its 10" screen and its incredible battery life. Its got a great keyboard, and its really light to carry. On the other hand the Dell Studio 15, with the larger screen, and extra large battery I got, is heavy, and a bulky in comparison.

Still, I like the Dell Studio 15 and given I want the bigger screen, longer battery life, and faster processor, then I am willing to put up with the extra weight.

3

Hmm, I had forgotten about the NVidia issues. I guess that helps slim down my choices, as I am not interested in super graphics cards, and if they’re going to fail on me down the road, I’ll steer clear of them.

Well, that makes the choice a bit easier, as the XPS models come with NVidia by default, without other options. The one exception is the XPS Studio 16, but this is a bit large for me, and it’s well above $1000.

The Studio 15 is still looking good. Are there other contenders from HP or Lenovo?

4

Okay, I am looking at two particular models now; the Dell Studio 15, and the HP Pavilion dv5tse. With nearly identical configs (and Intel Integrated graphics), they come out to US$989, and US$999, respectively. The one difference is Bluetooth, which comes with the HP, but is optional on the Dell. I don’t use bluetooth, so it’s not an issue for me. Also, the Dell has an optional backlit keyboard, which I probably would add if I made the purchase.

I looked at the Lenovo machines, which looked really good, but they all had Nvidia graphics, with no option for anything else.

Anyone using the HP dv5 series with linux? Any other suggestions?

5

Hmm, looks like a level playing field. Both laptops even feature USB/eSATA combos, which I like. The Hp has somewhat higher resolution (1605x1005 vs 1440x900) but after playing with a Studio 15, I think 1440x900 is about as much as I would want anyways. Though the Studio 15 is available with a WUXGA (1920x1200) screen if I want it…

I can’t seem to find any other laptops that are in this “genre”, if you will. Partly because I am unfamiliar with most other brands.

6

When I was shopping, I was left with the impression that the HP DV 5 was a bit less expensive than the Dell Studio 15 … but I have to qualify that.

Being in Germany, all the local shops laptops had keyboards in German, and it cost something like an extra 100 euros to get a laptop with a keyboard in English. While with the Dell, in Germany with careful part selection, I could order a Dell laptop with an English keyboard at no extra cost. This swayed the price back from being in favour of the HP DV5, to equal price between the two laptops.

The Dell keyboard also, for a slight extra cost, has a back lit option for the keyboard, which I am told is REALLY NICE and worth going for. There are videos on You tube illustrating this effect. I like it. I don’t recall this being an HP DV5 option. But my having typed that, I did not go for the backlit, as my wife plans to put Thai-English stickers on most (not all) of the keyboard keys, which sort of defeats the purpose of going for a back lit keyboard.

One factor that eventually swayed me to purchase the Dell was a simple question of supply where I lived. … When I was ready to “pull the trigger and buy” there was no HP DV 5 of the exact configuration that I wanted (in terms of RAM). To upgrade the RAM was a silly price and made the HP DV5 not price competitive, hence it was best I found (when shopping) to ensure the the laptop comes with the RAM one wants already installed.

About a month after I purchased the Dell, there were some HP DV 5’s in the local shop (with German keyboards) that were about the same price (after the English keyboard upgrade) as the Dell. But by then it was too late.

7

Yeah, the backlit keyboard is a factor in my view. While it pushes the price past that of the dv5t, it’s only $25, and it’s not available at all on the HP.

The match is otherwise so close that I think the “Dell factor” might be enough to decide my decision. I would like to look at other brands as well, but I’m not seeing much competition. Excluding Nvidia seems to force out most of the others.

I think I can look at both the Studio 15 and the dv5t at our local Best Buy. I may try them both out to see how they handle.

Anyone else have suggestions?

8

Boy, I had excluded NVidia equipped machines from my choice, but this one looks awfully nice:

Lenovo IdeaPad Y530 - 40516EU - $999 config

  • System components:
  • Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor P8600 ( 2.40GHz 1GHz 3MB )
  • NVIDIA GeForce 9300M 256MB
  • 4 GB PC3-8500 **DDR3 **
    SDRAM 1066MHz
  • 15.4 " WXGA TFT with integrated camera AntiGlare 1280x800
  • 320GB 5400
  • DVD Recordable (Dual Layer)
  • 6 Cell Lithium-Ion
  • Intel Wireless Wi-Fi Link 5100
  • Bluetooth Version 2.0 + EDR

Everything in a 1066Mhz fsb, with DDR3 RAM.

I wonder how hard it is to replace a graphics card…

Here’s another Lenovo, this time a Thinkpad with integrated graphics:

ThinkPad SL500 Series - $969.00 config

  • Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8400 (2.26GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2)
  • 15.4" WXGA AntiGlare
  • Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
  • 4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory

Doesn’t seem like anyone else has any advice, I suppose (with one exception; thanks oldcpu! :wink: )…

9

To replace the graphic card in a laptop, to the best of my knowledge, requires that the laptop be returned to a service center. One may have to wait one to six weeks, for the parts to arrive.

You mentioned nVidia …

One nice thing about nVidia graphics over ATI graphics, is nVidia are actively working with the Linux community to try and get Pure Video capability of many nVidia cards (known as VDPAU in Linux) working with ffmpeg, mplayer, xine, mythTV, and some other Linux multimedia applications. While this has been around for a while for Windows, in Linux terms this is still fairly state of the art.

If you do a search for “wiki nvidia vdpau” or “wiki Pure Video” you will see that if they succeed (and its still buggy now) computers fitted with nVidia cards that have Pure Video capabilities, will be able to decode the high definition videos that are appearing now on the market. Currently older PCs struggle with these. For example, my relatively new Dell Studio 15 (P8400 with Radeon 3450) can not smoothly play an H.264 encoded 1920x1080 24p high definition video. I would have to render it to a lower resolution first.

But I suspect with vdpau functioning, a laptop with a nVidia card supporting Pure Video (VDPAU) will be able to play such a video (because the decoding of the H.264, or VC-1 (wmv) or MPEG1/2 are offloaded to the graphic card GPU. The amount of memory on the laptop’s graphic card becomes key then, as I believe one would want at least 256MB RAM on the graphic card. Don’t expect the graphic card to use the laptop’s RAM and still keep the High Definition video playback. Of course 512MB on the graphic card would be even nicer, but likely NOT realistic in a laptop.

In my case, this would have been nice to have, as my wife and I play lots of videos on our laptop. (However there is the nVidia quality issue :slight_smile: … ).

Anyway, I offer that High Definition video playback consideration as food for thought, dependant on how you plan to use your laptop.

10

Good points. My video needs are rather slim however; I may watch a flash movie every once and a while, or some home video, and perhaps I’ll use this to play DVDs on the projector for the family, but in general, this is a work machine, with multimedia uses limited primarily to audio; and I use an external sound card, so in general, I don’t need fancy multimedia features. The idea of my graphics cards failing while working with a client is not particularly enticing…

Though it’s a bit ironic, as I normally would cater towards companies like NVidia (or Dell, for that matter) because of their efforts at supporting linux.

However, the above mention Thinkpad uses integrated graphics, so that may be an option. And according to this link, linux support is pretty good with an up-to-date kernel (also with the HP dv5t). Any Thinkpad fans want to chime in here?

11

oldcpu, how does the build quality feel on your Studio 15? Do you think it’s a “road worthy” laptop? How would you compare it to, say, a Thinkpad or Macbook?

12

I know nothing about a Macbook. I carried a Thinkpad around for a year, back in 1994 to 1995. It was pretty good. Based on that experience, and from what I have seen from the Lenovo’s in the local PC store, that they are similar in solidity, although I think if “push came to shove” I would give the construction of the Lenovo/Thinkpad an edge in terms of higher quality, more solid.

But I believe both to be “road worthy”. I would not have purchased the Dell Studio 15 if I did not feel that way. The 9 cell battery definitely makes the Dell Studio 15 a bit bulkier and a bit heavier. I’m not 100% certain that larger battery was necessary (as the Studio 15 is already big and bulky without the larger battery), but whats done is done, and it does provide longer battery life. My view is when the laptop (and hence the battery) gets older, that extra battery life will be especially useful. Right now at beginning of life its less useful (we have yet to run down the battery much).

13

Hmm, I am wondering a bit about system76. I’ve heard a few good things about them, but unfortunately due to their small market share there’s not alot of info from users. Maybe I’ll pst that in another thread…

14

I don’t intend to hijack this thread but since this thread is similar to my intension I decided to just post it here. I am planning to buy a laptop for my daughter who is in her senior year in high school. I am not looking for a top of the line kind but just fair enough for the price. I been canvassing for a week now and due to budget issue the only thing I can afford right now is this model. STAPLES | BUREAU EN GROS
As an addition I will repartition the drive and dual boot vista and opensuse 11.1

Do you think this item is fair enough for that price?

15

As an additional information to my above post please see this link
Product Specifications

Sorry for doubling my post in this thread. I can’t edit my first post anymore. look like there is a limited amount of time for editing.:slight_smile:

16

Would you mind posting the model you are considering? The spec sheet you linked looks nice but I can’t seem to find the actuall name of the laptop or the price. The specs look pretty decent, but without the pricing information I can’t really say if it’s a good deal or not.

And yeah, there’s a 10 minute limit for editing your post. To be honest it’s one of the most bizarre rules I’ve ever seen on a forum.

17

@zak86
System76 has a pretty good reputation, although I wonder how much of that is justified and how much of that is a kudos-bonus for sticking to (Ubuntu) Linux-only for their computers. Especially when most of the major manufacturers make it difficult to get Linux pre-installed on consumer-level hardware.

System76 has a support forum @ the Ubuntu Forums.](http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=341)

Keep in mind though that’s where people go when they have questions and issues, not so much to hype the brand. Still, you’ll find a pool of owners there so that’s a good place to start.

@sultanofsuse
That PC is decent for the price - the feature set is pretty much standard in that price range, especially at a mainstream retailer. Further, I doubt your daughter will give you grief over not having draft-n spec wifi (well she might, I don’t know how much a geek she is). But if your daughter is planning on taking the laptop to school now or next year at university/college…that HP weighs too much.

6.5 lbs seems ok in theory, and when you lift it for 2 seconds at the store it probably seems alright (note the store does not have the battery installed though…) but male or female - 6.5lbs is too much for something she’ll have to keep moving around. You wouldn’t want to walk around all day with a newborn in your arms or on your back…yet this is pretty much the same thing. And it will be worse for her as a student since she’ll likely have to carry the machine + power supply + books + whatever else.

I used to carry a Compaq that weighed the same and it truly was bothersome. Also consider that many lecture halls & seminar rooms still have those small arm rest/paper pad supports which were designed with an 8.5" width (or less) paper in mind. That laptop is almost 15" wide - so it won’t be a comfortable situation.

I assume from the link you live in Canada…you may want to try TigerDirect.ca. They sell online and have physical store locations as well. My experiences with them have been good, but shop around…there are other online retailers in Canada, you could try Dell.ca for instance.

Otherwise depending on your daughter’s needs you could buy her a netbook, they tend to be the same cost or less (usually less) than the machine you linked to - although they are less powerful, they are also smaller and much lighter (often 2-4lbs). Of course if she’s going into Computer Science or an Animation program she’ll want more processing power but if she’s a more typical computer user, a netbook might be a perfect fit for her bag, her back, and your budget.

18

I can’t get to your first link because it wants a valid Canadian postal code and I don’t have one. However, it looks like you’re looking at the $-700 price range?

You might want to look at Dell’s Inspiron line. Their biggest (Inspiron 15) is just over a full pound lighter than the CQ60 you linked to. Also, take a look the the Dell Mini 12. It’s a netbook, but with a 12" screen it really bridges the gap perfectly between a netbook and light laptop. I am thinking of getting one myself. The one thing that may be a problem is if your daughter wants to watch DVDs on her laptop; the Minis have no optical drive.

I am hearing mixed things about system76. They’re more expensive than an equivalent Dell, and apparently they don’t even always work correctly with Ubuntu. The line I am looking at was reportedly equipped with a non linux-ready touchpad; system76’s solution was to disable the touchpad altogether!

19

Okay, I’ve still been doing some research. I branched out a bit, trying to not limit myself to Dell or other companies I was familiar with. Gateway, Lenovo, Toshiba, Sony, system76, ProStar, HP, and on and on.

By ruling out NVidia graphics, I have already narrowed my choice. I am also on the verge of excluding HP’s offerings, because every HP laptop I have tried (at Best Buy and Staples) has this ridiculous glossy touchpad that is about as ergonomic as rubbing your finger over a mirror. Terrible drag, and once sweat and dust have their turn on the touchpad, I dread to think what it would end up like. Using the touchpad was an extremely frustrating experience.

If I was in the market for a 17" desktop replacement that would always have a mouse plugged in, I wouldn’t mind the touchpad so much, but for a 15" that I want to be able to travel with, I can’t handle that kind of “feature”.

So here are my current choices:

Dell Studio 15 US$774

  • Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T6400 (2.00GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)
  • 15.4 WLED display (1440x900)
  • 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 800MHz
  • 320GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
  • Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
  • 8X Slot Load CD / DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
  • Intel WiFi Link 5100 802.11agn Half Mini-Card
  • Integrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam
  • 56 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
  • Back-lit Keyboard

Note that the Studio has Intel’s 4500MHD video. I have heard mixed news regarding linux compatibility. I am banking on the following statement from this link: "The X4500HD is supported by the xf86-video-intel driver (The xorg driver developed by Intel) Version 2.5.1-r1 is more or less stable. "

Lenovo Ideapad Y530 - $769.00

  • Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T6400 ( 2GHz 800MHz 2MB )
  • 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1066MHz
  • Intel Integrated Graphics X4500
  • Intel Wireless Wi-Fi Link 5100
  • 15.4 " WXGA TFT with integrated camera LCD Glossy 1280x800
  • 320GB 5400 Hard Drive
  • 6 Cell Lithium-Ion Battery

Also with the Intel 4500. The 1280x800 screen res may break this one for me.

Lenovo Thinkpad R500 - US$984

  • Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8400 (2.26GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2)
  • 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050)
  • Intel Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
  • 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
  • 160GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
  • Intel WiFi Link 5100 (AGN) with My WiFi Technology
  • 6 cell Li-Ion Battery

And last and certainly least…

HP Pavilion dv5tse - US$824

  • Intel(R) Core™2 Duo Processor T6400 (2.0GHz)
  • 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm) 250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD15.4" diagonal WSXGA+ High-Definition HP BrightView Infinity Display (1680 x 1050)
  • Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
  • 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery

I only included this last one because a week ago, it was significantly less than the Studio 15, so I was forced to at least consider it. However, since then the Studio’s price has come down significantly (in the US, at least), so the Hp’s chances don’t look good.

All these models appear to have good linux support. I have found reviews of all of them on the wiki atlinlap.com, and most seem to work out of the box with the latest generation of distros. Since 11.2 will probably be close to release by the time I am ready to buy one, I am hopeful that there won’t be any issues.

20

They all look like nice laptops. I know for a fact we have Dell Studio 15 and HP Pavilion DV5 users on our forum. I saw one (and only one) post of a Lenovo R500 user, and have not seen any of Y530 users. Still, by watching our forum for the trials and tribulations of the Dell and HP users, you may get a flavour as to the Dell and HP laptops.

Don’t forget to do searches on youtube, as many users will provide a video of their laptop, and provide their own “video production” as to what they think of their new laptop PCs.