On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:52:20 +0000, L R Nix wrote:
> Wait… lock a thread… OH NO!! I couldn’t post in this thread then.
> Uh, nice threat.
Dude, knock it off. You’re giving NNTP users a bad name.
Jim
L R Nix wrote:
> Malcolm wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:51:53 GMT
>> L R Nix <lornix@lornix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> kastorff wrote:
>>>
>>>> -Thread moving to Forums Comments/Suggestions-
>>>>
>>>> Thread temporarily closed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ah, the irony…
>>>
>>> Loni
>> For sure, but you should really have posted your reply to the correct
>> forum…
>>
>
> Uh, I did. I pressed ‘reply…’. Knode sent the message to the group the
> thread existed in.
>
> It’s ok, I’m sure kastorff or someone will move it.
>
That isn’t the point. The point is you are helping perpetuate the issue.
> I’m an nntp user… the thread exists in community.general. NOW, it’s broken,
> with no continuity. I had to search for where it was originally, as someone
> previous in the thread so kindly said I should do. Sorry, if I have to spend
> time to look for the original question of a thread… I won’t, and I’ll move
> on. My ‘oldtimer’ expertise will be lost to that person. Or I’ll post to
> the original thread as I see it, someone will break it by ‘helpfully moving
> it’, and I’ll not see the thread again, figuring it’s forgotten or solved.
>
> I believe we should TEACH the ‘newbies’… yes, they post in inappropriate
> areas. They’re naive… not ignorant or stupid. forums, newsgroups,
> usenet… these are all alien ideas to the new generations… to them, the
> web exists ONLY has archaic email and http addresses. nntp? smtp? ftp? ssh?
> telnet?!? OMG!!
>
Wouldn’t moving the OP’s thread to the correct place help “teach” that
it was in the wrong place to begin with? Maybe it is just me but I
thought that was pretty clear.
> Oh no!! I’ve said too much, kastorff will move my post to ‘soapbox’ now!!!
> Yes, kastorff for one, has annoyed me with his overzealous “thread
> temporarily closed, moved to xxx.xxx”. I counted. Yesterday, he had 670
> posts… of which more than 600 were… “thread temporarily closed,
> moved…”.
>
Look, this is not up for debate. Threads getting closed and moved like
this are being done for the NNTP users benefit since NNTP users were
complaining that threads were being moved and they didn’t know.
> And his attitude has changed. In the early posts, he was nice, considerate,
> helpful even. Now he’s surly, defensive, and “holier than thou”… “I’m a
> site admin!”. Oh, don’t joke about his status, he gets upset.
>
That’s a load of BS. I love how everyone starts to attack staff members
and say they are abusing their powers with the “holier than thou” or
“I’m a site admin” attitude instead of realizing they are spending loads
of time trying to make 2 different user groups happy.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:16:24 +0000, 69_rs_ss wrote:
> Look, this is not up for debate. Threads getting closed and moved like
> this are being done for the NNTP users benefit since NNTP users were
> complaining that threads were being moved and they didn’t know.
In thinking about this, 69_rs_ss, on the web side when threads are moved/
closed, maybe it would help if the subject line reflected the status?
Not trying to make more work, just trying to see if there’s a way to
refine this to make it more obvious. While I think L R Nix is going way
overboard, there is a somewhat valid point here - replying to the message
in the old newsgroup is hard to do if you don’t read the entire thread
(and clearly some NNTP users don’t or don’t know to - heck, I’m guilty of
that from time to time myself) and find out after you’ve replied that the
thread was moved.
Anyone with a decent newsreader can change where their message is posted
by changing the “newsgroups” header, but only if they know where the
message was moved to.
Just a thought…
Jim
L R Nix wrote:
> deltaflyer44 wrote:
>
>> I will politely point out, publically berating someone is frowned upon
>> here.please desist as i would hate to lock a thread because of it
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>
> Wait… lock a thread… OH NO!! I couldn’t post in this thread then. Uh,
> nice threat.
>
> Wasn’t berating anyone, simply agreeing with a previous poster that certain
> patterns of activity have been noticed.
>
Personally attacking someone is berating them. This is a warning for all
involved, please keep this discussion civil and try to keep on topic
about the NNTP vs web issues.
> I’d rather take the time to teach the new members to linux and these forums.
> I use nntp to access these forums. Various “admins” breaking threads make it
> difficult to do so. Everyone urges web forum access instead. That is an
> inefficient method to me for reading the volume of posts involved.
>
This forum from the get-go was said to be a web forum with NNTP
access, not the other way around. that is why web access is suggested.
It is up to the users to decide which way they are going to access the
site and deal with the pitfalls for whichever they decide.
> The web forums, on the other hand, are a VERY efficient method for the new
> person to post questions and find answers. The ‘thread moved’ issue doesn’t
> affect those users, which a good thing. So I can see the benefits of both
> sides of the forums.
>
> Now, if I could convice my newsreader to combine certain groups, or all
> groups, it could follow the threads easily. It doesn’t, and, like others, I
> subscribe to several hundred or more. Searching for the beginning of a
> thread is often daunting.
>
> You have a wonderful thing here, these forums are great for the new people,
> and an example of what goes right within communities.
>
Which is what we are trying to do, get the community together. Get sides
of the community that never were involved with each other working
together to make it stronger. That is why we decided on adding the NNTP
access in the first place.
> I just see it as some people taking their “jobs” waaay too seriously. I’d
> rather a person get their problem solved and have a good feeling about linux,
> opensuse, forums, and so on… than to see we’re nothing but a group of
> control freaks with OCD and God complexes. So they posted in the wrong
> place? {shrug} This is the new age… why not just make a single huge
> group, and let everything get posted in there regardless. No broken threads,
>
I don’t see what the big issue of threads going in the correct forum is.
Yes it breaks threading in NNTP and we are trying to post when things
are moved since NNTP users were complaining about that. Now we are
getting complaints that we are moving threads and posting that they are
being moved to xxx forum. We are basically damned if we do and damned if
we don’t.
What would you rather us do if moving threads are that much of an issue?
Please suggest something rather than saying you believe staff members
have “god complexes” and “ocd”.
Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:16:24 +0000, 69_rs_ss wrote:
>
>> Look, this is not up for debate. Threads getting closed and moved like
>> this are being done for the NNTP users benefit since NNTP users were
>> complaining that threads were being moved and they didn’t know.
>
> In thinking about this, 69_rs_ss, on the web side when threads are moved/
> closed, maybe it would help if the subject line reflected the status?
>
Interesting thought and I would have to say it is something I will try
playing with. Give me a little while and I’ll get back to you on if is
would work correctly the way I am envisioning what you mean.
> Not trying to make more work, just trying to see if there’s a way to
> refine this to make it more obvious. While I think L R Nix is going way
> overboard, there is a somewhat valid point here - replying to the message
> in the old newsgroup is hard to do if you don’t read the entire thread
> (and clearly some NNTP users don’t or don’t know to - heck, I’m guilty of
> that from time to time myself) and find out after you’ve replied that the
> thread was moved.
>
> Anyone with a decent newsreader can change where their message is posted
> by changing the “newsgroups” header, but only if they know where the
> message was moved to.
>
> Just a thought…
>
> Jim
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:21:34 +0000, 69_rs_ss wrote:
>> In thinking about this, 69_rs_ss, on the web side when threads are
>> moved/ closed, maybe it would help if the subject line reflected the
>> status?
>>
> Interesting thought and I would have to say it is something I will try
> playing with. Give me a little while and I’ll get back to you on if is
> would work correctly the way I am envisioning what you mean.
Cool, thanks for considering the idea. 
Jim
i must apologize to all…this posting was intended to be a private
message sent to ONE individual in Novell, with i believe the ability and
perhaps interest in helping solve the situation in some semblance of
timeliness…
i distinctly remember (after subscribing to General and finding/reading
a broken thread’s root) scrolling down in Thunderbird’s list of email
addresses and picking out ONE name…i GUESS i was too dumb (or hurried
by real life) to notice that Thunderbird had already filled in a “To:”
block with opensuse.org.community.general
before pressing “Send”… </sigh>
–
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
A Texan in Denmark
i must apologize to all…
my posting yesterday was INTENDED to be a private message sent to ONE individual in Novell with, i believe, the ability and perhaps interest in helping solve the situation in some semblance of timeliness…(that is, i think PAID help could be thrown that this problem, to program a seamless fix, one time fix…)
i distinctly remember (after subscribing to General and finding/reading a broken thread’s root) scrolling down in Thunderbird’s list of email addresses and picking out ONE name…i GUESS i was too dumb (or hurried by real life) to notice that Thunderbird had already filled in a “To:” block with opensuse.org.community.general
before pressing “Send”… </sigh>
had i noticed i would have NOT sent it to General, i would have sent it only my desired single reader…or, had i really wanted to either slam a single staff member OR all of them for not having dropped their entire life to RE-program the software tools they have available to do their VOLUNTEER duties here i would have, at least, directed the post to Forums comments/Suggestions…BUT, i would have written with fewer flames…a capability i do possess…
to the staff volunteers (and other posters) here who (like me) want Linux in general and Novell, SuSE and openSuSE in particular to grow and flourish: SORRY!
–
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
A Texan in Denmark
and, i add my newest personal decision on how i’m going to reduce MY
frustration here:
i will no longer read (via NNTP) any thread which begins with a
subject line starting with “Re:”
because that signals the thread will NOT begin with an originating post
and i have lost patience in trying to find the roots, to understand the
question asked…
anyway, at my very best i’m NOT that dang technically helpful…so, i’m
sure my lost participation won’t be missed by those so inept (or new) as
to not even know where they should post…
–
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
A Texan in Denmark
You know Denver, even if you didn’t have “Texan” in your signature, it really wouldn’t be hard to guess where you’re from.
> You know Denver, even if you didn’t have “Texan” in your signature, it
> really wouldn’t be hard to guess where you’re from.
i’ve already noticed you enjoy insulting others…(just last week you
were insulting a fellow EU Citizen in The Netherlands (iirc))…
you may think you both know me AND where i am from…and, you may think
you therefore know “my politics”…
i’d guess you missKnow me…it might surprise you to learn that i’ve
never voted for a man named Bush…EVER…
nor am i sure you can, from Finland, realize how really sorry i am about
what he has (mostly) singlehandedly done to the stature of my country,
in the eyes of the world, and Finland…
thankfully, he has only a limited number of days remaining to further
shame my homeland…
hopefully, the next administration will do more to promote the real
freedom you enjoy today…after the USA and the rest of the Free World
helped you get that Bear off of your back.
–
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
A Texan in Denmark
DenverD,
The Terms and Conditions clearly state “No Politics”. This thread is closed.
Snakedriver
I have re-opened this thread, Swerdna properly pointed out to me that the Terms and Conditions do not preclude political discussions.
DenverD, I apologize for my inappropriate behavior. You are most welcome to bash my President in this forum.
I cannot and will not be associated with such a political organization. I hereby resign my association with this forum.
Snakedriver
It’s been fun:)
My sense of a forum community is a group who gather to give and receive assistance. This community here is founded on the tireless work of experienced and selfless team-spirited Suse experts like snakedriver.
I am appalled that a few rabble rousers can lead an honorable fellow like him to leave. I will now take steps to have the Terms and Conditions clarified so it becomes crystal clear that members should be civilised on this forum. I thought that civility did not need to be codified – live and learn.
I publicly apologise to snakedriver for the insult done to his sense of honour and ask him to stay and to continue in this civic duty.
For myself, I find this thread to be an affront and I close it.