Some more p*** and moaning

I’m sure this post will invoke some acid tongue and righteous trash talking,
but here goes anyway.

Can developers please STOP locking the ability to resize windows!!
This is a HUGE problem in the environment I work in.

Case in point KDE4.2, Kmail>Configure Kmail.

The ensuing window is not resizable in any fashion.

Configure Kontact at least allows you some leeway resizing right to left,
but it is still lacking.

The setup I run is two 17" flat panel displays.
The right monitor I use to run my virtual machines, one of which is OS 11.1
running KDE 4.2. VMware tools currently doesn’t work properly so the
display is not optimized. The end result is in this case trying to work
with Kmail that all of the confirmation dialog buttons for apply settings
etc run off the bottom of the screen. As 800x600 looks works the best in
this setting as it reduces my need to scroll the VM up and down to get at
things. If I run in a resolution like 1024x768 I can get to the buttons if
I scroll the VM windows about. A big time waster. Now you may say, just
fix VMware tools and all is well, or you may say, what a noobtard running
in 800x600, or look at the poor sod, he’s too poor to afford gigantica
Apple Cinema Display…whatever…I run into this scenario with rather
regularity with Linux apps, often during installation or setup on new
machines where the defaults get bodged up because the display isn’t
recognized or the video driver has issues and then the screen resolution
defaults to guess what? 640x480 or 800x600. So now you totally hosed.
Time to shell out and run sax. It’s just a nuisance. Make it so the
friggin’ app windows can be resized from any corner!!! There’s no reason
other than some dysfunction of the X server/WindowManager that I should
have to grab the lower right corner to resize the whole window. If that
corner is off the screen you’re screwed. If there is some other suggestion
on how to work around this I’m all ears, but to date it just another thing
to p*#$# me off.

You think you got it bad?

Try Windows, you can’t bloody resize half of the windows (Ah, such pun!)

If you right click your window decoration and un-check the maximize option, then you can use the resize function without grabbing the edges. I hope this is the one you’re looking in to.

Yes, I’ve found annoyances in past, where you couldn’t adjust a window size directly. Kwin does seem to have some nice features to over-ride application choices, in a kind of sticking plaster way, but it did save my sanity in couple of cases.

The other thing, that really annoys me, is when they draw text and then you can’t copy & paste it.

We have a DE, and copy & paste is one of those ergonomic time save features, so why they think that it’s important enough to display the info, but then not make it copyable for re-use, I don’t understand.

That error is a big one in Windows world with M$ being guilty of many heinous, useability mistakes on this score.

Prolly cause it’s the default behaviour when you set some GUI thing to disabled.

edittable = false; does allow selection / copy pastage.

Caught myself making the same ‘mistake’ a lot of times.

> If you right click your window decoration and un-check the maximize
> option, then you can use the resize function without grabbing the edges.
> I hope this is the one you’re looking in to.

Unfortunately no it doesn’t help. To see the problem set your resolution to
800x600, fire up Kontact, go to configure Kmail. Try and figure out a way
to view the buttons at the bottom without being able to move the window
upwards enough( because it is butting the top of the screen) for you to see
the buttons at the bottom. Grabbing any of the upper corners of the window
or even the top of the window will not allow you to resize the window, you
can make it wider grabbing the top right, but you cannot make it shorter by
pulling down on the top. Thus there is no way to view the buttons at the
bottom. This happens all over the place when running on low resolution
displays. As an example of how windows SHOULD work, exit the Configure
Kmail dialog window and resize the Kontact window. You can easily grab it
by the top and pull it down or grab the right or left corner to resize it.
Next we will hear a large discourse from someone on modal and child
windows…blah blah…I don’t care. Fix it please. And if this is ‘by
design’…change design please, this one is rubbish.

> Prolly cause it’s the default behaviour when you set some GUI thing to
> disabled.
>
> edittable = false; does allow selection / copy pastage.
>
> Caught myself making the same ‘mistake’ a lot of times.
>
>
Nope, nothing changed from default. This is out of the box configuration.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:22:10 +0000, GofBorg wrote:

> Try and figure out a
> way to view the buttons at the bottom without being able to move the
> window upwards enough

Alt+Space not work to bring up the window menu? (I don’t use KDE, works
in GNOME)

Jim

>> Try and figure out a
>> way to view the buttons at the bottom without being able to move the
>> window upwards enough
>
> Alt+Space not work to bring up the window menu? (I don’t use KDE, works
> in GNOME)
>
> Jim

It’s not a missing menu, there is none in this case, it’s missing the
buttons at the bottom…aka, OK, Cancel, Apply, etc as they are run off the
bottom of the screen and there is no alternative action. I usually try
to ‘guess’ the order of the buttons down there and use arrows and tabs to
navigate…but it can be blind luck.

Probably should have done a better job at explaining that…

Me, and I guess other programmers when you don’t want the user to be able to edit the contents of a field the logical step to take to prevent them from doing is by setting the element to disabled. Prolly because everything can be set to disabled, but not everything can be set to editable = false;
(for example a radiobutton can be set to disabled… but not to non-editable)

The ‘mistake’ is as easy to make as it is to fix, so if you send whoever made the program an email and they/he/she agrees with you about it being useful it could be fixed in no time.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:08:43 +0000, GofBorg wrote:

>>> Try and figure out a
>>> way to view the buttons at the bottom without being able to move the
>>> window upwards enough
>>
>> Alt+Space not work to bring up the window menu? (I don’t use KDE,
>> works in GNOME)
>>
>> Jim
>
> It’s not a missing menu, there is none in this case, it’s missing the
> buttons at the bottom…aka, OK, Cancel, Apply, etc as they are run off
> the bottom of the screen and there is no alternative action. I usually
> try to ‘guess’ the order of the buttons down there and use arrows and
> tabs to navigate…but it can be blind luck.

What I’m suggesting is using the “Move” item or “Resize” on the window
menu to accomplish the goal of moving or resizing the window, thus
putting the buttons where you can see them.

Or use a larger virtual desktop if you’re restricted to 800x600 by the
hardware in the system.

I know this doesn’t address your original complaint about developers not
letting you resize the window, but the obvious answer to that is to tweak
the code or complain to the app developers in question. :wink:

Jim

> What I’m suggesting is using the “Move” item or “Resize” on the window
> menu to accomplish the goal of moving or resizing the window, thus
> putting the buttons where you can see them.

And what I am saying is that these apps do not adhere to standard window
resizing, thus none of the standard ‘tricks’ work. :slight_smile:

> Or use a larger virtual desktop if you’re restricted to 800x600 by the
> hardware in the system.

Yep as I said that is an option but the point was that these applications
that don’t adhere to standard window manipulation are a serious problem
when virtual desktops may not even be configured yet. I’ve run into real
problems on GUI installations that assume larger screen sizes.

> I know this doesn’t address your original complaint about developers not
> letting you resize the window, but the obvious answer to that is to tweak
> the code or complain to the app developers in question. :wink:

Yep, but since it would be absolutely insane to track down the developer for
every non compliant application (there are a lot) I choose to rant here
where maybe by osmosis somebody will get the message and pass it on to
their fellow code jockeys… :wink:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:43:27 +0000, GofBorg wrote:

> Yep, but since it would be absolutely insane to track down the developer
> for every non compliant application (there are a lot) I choose to rant
> here where maybe by osmosis somebody will get the message and pass it on
> to their fellow code jockeys… :wink:
>

Fair 'nuff, it is the soapbox after all. :wink:

Jim

I agree with you, by the way. When I started with Mandrake 7.0 many years ago, that was one of the things that almost ran me away. Mandrake (now Mandriva) was notorious for making config dialogs that ran past the edge of the screen.

But one trick is to hold the ALT key and left mouse button over the window in question. This allows you to drag the dialog around on the screen, letting you get at those “hidden” buttons. That saved my sanity, let me stick with Linux, eventually to switch to Suse, and now be Happy Flower Sunshine All The Time. lol!

> But one trick is to hold the ALT key and left mouse button over the
> window in question.
> This allows you to drag the dialog around on the
> screen, letting you get at those “hidden” buttons. That saved my sanity,
> let me stick with Linux, eventually to switch to Suse, and now be Happy
> Flower Sunshine All The Time. lol!

YES!!! Awesome dude, you finally came up with a suggestion that works!
You deserve kudos or penguins or something.