Software Updates - opinion/advice required

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#1

Hi all,

Since upgrading from Opensuse 11.3 to 11.4, I have noted that I am no longer getting frequent automatic updates. When using 11.3 I would every second or third day have the update icon appear and be prompted to type in my root password to allow updating.

Since the upgrade to 11.4, if I want to upgrade software I will need to go to the online update tool and download through there, though there is not always updates available.

The zypper lr command gives me the following output # | Alias | Name - Pastebin.com](http://pastebin.com/cT7b6hFk)
and within Yast2 I have enabled Automatic Online Update with the daily interval.

So in my opinion it can either be one of two things…

Either my software updates have not been configured correctly, OR
there have not been many software updates available since upgrading to Opensuse version 11.4.

Can I please get an opinion or some advice in relation to this.

Thank you.

#2

do a “zypper lr 8”
this will give you detailed information about the current configured update repository.

This is my setup

#  | Alias                            | Name                             | Enabled | Refresh
---+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+---------+--------
 1 | GNOME:STABLE:3.0                 | GNOME:STABLE:3.0                 | Yes     | Yes    
 2 | Kernel:stable                    | Kernel:stable                    | Yes     | Yes    
 **3 | Updates-for-openSUSE-11.4-11.4-0 | Updates for openSUSE 11.4 11.4-0 | Yes     | Yes    
** 4 | ftp.uni-erlangen.de-suse_1       | Packman Repository               | Yes     | Yes    
 5 | google-chrome                    | google-chrome                    | Yes     | Yes    
 6 | openSUSE-11.4-11.4-0             | openSUSE-11.4-11.4-0             | Yes     | No     
 7 | opensuse-guide.org-repo          | libdvdcss repository             | Yes     | Yes    
 8 | repo-debug                       | openSUSE-11.4-Debug              | No      | Yes    
 9 | repo-debug-update                | openSUSE-11.4-Update-Debug       | No      | Yes    
10 | repo-non-oss                     | openSUSE-11.4-Non-Oss            | Yes     | Yes    
11 | repo-oss                         | openSUSE-11.4-Oss                | Yes     | Yes    
12 | repo-source                      | openSUSE-11.4-Source             | No      | Yes

and when I do “zypper lr 3” I get:

Alias          : Updates-for-openSUSE-11.4-11.4-0                    
Name           : Updates for openSUSE 11.4 11.4-0                    
URI            : [Index of /update/11.4](http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.4/)           
Enabled        : Yes                                                 
Priority       : 99                                                  
Auto-refresh   : On                                                  
Keep Packages  : Off                                                 
Type           : rpm-md                                              
GPG Check      : On                                                  
GPG Key URI    :                                                     
Path Prefix    : /                                                   
Parent Service :                                                     
MD Cache Path  : /var/cache/zypp/raw/Updates-for-openSUSE-11.4-11.4-0

Maybe your URI is wrong, so you better check it.

#3

On 04/25/2011 08:06 AM, koen dewitte wrote:
>
> do a “zypper lr 8”

i guess that is a typo as “lr 8” would give only info on the 8th repo, i
think it was supposed to look like


zypper lr -d

(no picking at you koen, just thought might confuse the OP)

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!

#4

true, I just wanted to compare his update repo (number 8 in his list) with mine (number 3)
But your way is better, gives all details at once… learning while helping :wink:

#5

My experience since installing KDE4 11.4 is that I get updates every day. However, KPackageKit failed to work properly with one user while working properly with another. When I stopped using KPackageKit with the first user, it stopped giving alerts to that user but continues to give alerts to the other user and, with one exception, has installed everything without any problems. That exception was solved simply by going to YaST>Online update.

#6

On 04/25/2011 12:36 PM, john hudson wrote:
>
> That exception was solved simply by going to YaST>Online update.
>

i’ve not tried 11.4 yet…but, my practice since 10.3 has been to use
the updater as a signal only…

that is, when it says there is an update i tell it not now/go away or i
just ignore it and open YaST > Online Update instead…then i look at
each suggested update and decide if i want it or not and only accept
what I want…

and mark the ones i don’t want a taboo–never update…

the, right click on the updater and tell it to “Check now” and it again
turns green (no updates available) and next time it turns yellow or red
i open Online Update and . . .

it seems to me the update system often wants to install stuff that i do
not want…like right now it want to install a krb5 security update,
which i can’t see how i need as i’m the only ‘node’ on a home network
and have no Kerberos client in use…

and, it wants to install a pulseaudio “fix directory permissions” but
pulseaudio is not in use, or installed! (so, i guess if i allow it to
“fix directory permissions” it will want to INSTALL those directories
(and, contents?) so it can fix them…no thanks!)

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!

#7

Hello all

the below is output of the DenverD’s and koen_dewitte’s suggestions.
paul@linux-68lo:~> zypper lr -d # | Alias | Name - Pastebin.com

Today I have run the Online Update Command and no packages have come up for updating.

I’ll wait until tomorrow and give it another test run.

I hope that there are other software that appears for updating.

Regards,

#8

I’ve had kpackager offer 11.4 updates when yast states that there aren’t any. I later accepted the kpackager offering and then re install so kpackager is now turned off.

I have also just had kpackager install rpm’s that I didn’t ask for or want or relate to the rpm that I wanted. Now I’m trying to get yast to install downloaded rpms by default. No such luck so far.

I’ve installed 11.4 3 times in the last couple of weeks and using yast have only had one further rather small update offered over the initial batch. As 11.4 itself seems rather stable I am very happy with this.

John

#9

On 04/25/2011 05:06 PM, leo mancini wrote:
>

> Today I have run the Online Update Command and no packages have come up
> for updating.
>
> I’ll wait until tomorrow and give it another test run.
>
> I hope that there are other software that appears for updating.

perhaps you don’t understand what the online updater is all about!

the BEST thing that could ever happen is that there is never anything to
up date! because the almost the only updates that come along are
security patches and bug fixes…so, nothing coming means what you have
is perfect!

don’t confuse update with upgrade…

upgrading to a newer version of software is normally done with each new
release, each 8 months

now, there are a few exceptions…like 11.4 shipped with FF 4 Beta, and
it was updated to the non-beta version when it came out…but, by and
large the 11.4 that reaches end of life will do so with pretty much the
software it was born with, but updated to kill major bugs and security
patches…

if that is not “bleeding edge” enough for you then you have to move to
another distro, or move from 11.4 to Tumbleweed…but, my personal
opinion is that Tumbleweed may not be suitable for a person with a level
of understanding of the system…well, read the cautions in “Who should
try Tumbleweed?” here: http://tinyurl.com/69mj3zj

oh, read some of the tales of woe in http://tinyurl.com/3vqvnl3

and, be careful with your decision, because backing out of Tumbleweed is
a LOT more difficult than diving in…

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!

#10

Hi,

I just want to ask a question… In relation to Software updates…
(I wish that I could upload a screenshot though not sure how to).

Anyway within Yast I have for example VLC version 1.1.7-3.pm.17.1 installed,
though within the brackets ie available for upgrade/update I have version 1.1.9-1.pm.2.4.

Now if I were to run Software update the above would not automatically be selected for updating. Why would this be? In the past I installed Gnome Desktop and these update/upgrading options were available (though yast), though in KDE (which I am using now) (through yast) they are not.

Now I assume (in theory) that an updated version of a software such as VLC should run better or have some bug fixes from the previous version.

Have I misunderstood what software updates is, or is this a bug within the software package of Yast and it is not running as intended?

PS I understand the advantage of the software update package of not selecting all software for updating and just selecting the important security update features is useful so not to download ginormous amounts of data through each reboot, though I just would like some clarification / opinions.

Thanks again.

Regards.

#11

On 2011-04-26 03:06, leo mancini wrote:

> Now if I were to run Software update the above would not automatically
> be selected for updating. Why would this be?

Because it has not appeared in the update repo. It is in packman repo.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

#12

On 04/26/2011 03:06 AM, leo mancini wrote:
>
> I just want to ask a question… In relation to Software updates…
> (I wish that I could upload a screenshot though not sure how to).

to upload a screen shot, place it on (for example) imagebam.com and then
put the link to it here…

> Anyway within Yast I have for example VLC version 1.1.7-3.pm.17.1
> installed,
> though within the brackets ie available for upgrade/update I have
> version 1.1.9-1.pm.2.4.
>
> Now if I were to run Software update the above would not automatically
> be selected for updating.

that is not an update, it is an upgrade [note those are two different
words update vs upgrade] from one version (1.1.7) to a newer one (1.1.9)
the Online Update module does not do “Online Upgrade”, never has…

> Why would this be? In the past I installed
> Gnome Desktop and these update/upgrading options were available (though
> yast), though in KDE (which I am using now) (through yast) they are
> not.

the online updater has never offered the ability to online upgrade to
newer versions…only online updates and security fixes

> Now I assume (in theory) that an updated version of a software such as
> VLC should run better or have some bug fixes from the previous version.

that is not an always sound assumption…the new version may directly
conflict with other software in your multimedia setup, and kill it all…

there is NO assurance that a new VLC will work smoothly with everything
else in your system…maybe the new VLC depends on a new sound driver
which may not be automatically installed when you ‘force’ the new VLC
into the system…

> Have I misunderstood what software updates is,

yes, which i tried to explain in my previous post, was i unclear?

> or is this a bug within
> the software package of Yast and it is not running as intended?

no, it is running as intended…

security patches and bug updates are placed in the update repo which is
the only repo the Online Updater ‘looks’ into for updates

the version upgrade of VLC seen via the Software Management module
(which is not connected to the Online Updater module) is in the
packman repo (or maybe one of the others i’d suggest you should
disable…to leave only oss, non-oss, update and packman)

if you wish to install the new VLC, use the Software Management module
and its switch vendor function…but, i don’t know how to do that (and,
suggest until you have a full system backup and sound understanding of
how to back-level, you not learn how to either)…

on the other hand, it IS your system and you are allowed to do to is as
you wish…and, we are allowed to not help you repair the damage you
inflict by ignoring advice…

>
> PS I understand the advantage of the software update package of not
> selecting all software for updating

you continue to use the word update while talking about upgrade…

> and just selecting the important
> security update features is useful so not to download ginormous amounts
> of data

it is also very useful to not install upgraded software which may
conflict with other software in the system and require you to back
level, or go back to where you were before

> through each reboot, though I just would like some clarification
> / opinions.

now, you have my clarification and opinion…

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!

#13

Well said DenverD. If the person wants to see what upgrade can do install Mandriva which you will find is stable and then run update. It really is important to understand the difference between upgrading and updating. Suse make this relatively easy. Upgrades come from new releases. Updates are applied to existing and older releases. YAST also group updates which can be rather useful at times if you run none official opensuse software and it’s working ok.

It’s also possible to upgrade parts of an opensuse release such as kde but in real terms people can often expect and easier life if they wait for it to be in a future release.

There is another aspect of upgrading. I have just jumped from 10.3 to 11.4. I only have my pc to use it and certain packages are now a problem for 10.3. In real terms I would have been better off going to 11.3 now not 11.4 because certain none repo packages I want to use will install cleanly on 11.3. They wont on 11.4 because one of the library files it uses has been updated. Eventually the package will be updated to suit 11.4 but who knows when. I have to wait or try and force it in and then it may not work correctly.

John

#14

Hi all,

Thank you so much for the clarification!

I appreciate this. The further elaboration by DenverD was fantastic. And thanks ajohnw for your example as well.

So far the experience using Opensuse has been great and the community support has been all the more helpful.

Regards.

#15

On 04/26/2011 11:36 AM, ajohnw wrote:
> I have just jumped from 10.3 to 11.4. . . . I would have
> been better off going to 11.3

i moved from 10.3 to 11.3 in January (and 9.2 to 10.2 earlier)…and,
don’t plan to go to 11.4 until there is a lot more stability there (if
ever–i may skip it…i skipped the pain of 10.0, 10.1, 11.0, 11.1, 11.2
and i can skip a few more with great glee!!)

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!

#16

When I first read your post I was very surprised and curious, as I was seeing the opposite scenario. I was getting updates offered up by KPackageKit nearly every day… so many in fact that it was really annoying, particularly as certain files seemed to be updated over and over again almost daily.

This thread prompted me to take a better look at KPackageKit. I right clicked on the little notification icon in the panel, the little green gear like thingy. A menu I’d not seen before popped up, and I selected “Configure”

The window that then came up contained a box labeled “Origin of Packages” which lists each and every repository configured on this PC, whether or not they’re enabled at the time. Next to each is a check box.

The mix of boxes that were checked made no sense to me, but they explained why I was getting such a strange mix of updates every day. For instance: Packman, NVidia, and 3 others were enabled, but the Update repo was not). Note: some of those with their boxes checked aren’t even currently enabled or even set to refresh in Yast .

I unchecked all the seemingly random repos that had been selected, and I selected the update repo. Now I’m gonna wait and watch over the next few days to see what happens.

Did you know that KPackageKit offers you the same ability? Before any updates are installed the available ones are listed, and you have the opportunity to deselect any not wanted. I started out very skeptical about this little updater, but I’m getting more nearly comfortable;) with it as I learn more about it.

#17

Have you tried YaST > Software Management?

I just had 0 Online updates and 3 Updates in Software Management, when I checked.

In my experience (and I am still a puzzled explorer penguin) Online updates are for security fixes, Software management will upgrade packages. YMMV

#18

The good news: Instead of the 15 updates I’d been offered prior to changing the repo selection I’m now offered only one.

The bad news: ImageBam - Fast, Free Image Hosting and Photo Sharing

Oh Well, progress not perfection. Right?

(BTW: Yast>Online Update offered the same update and I was able to easily resolve the dependency issue there)

#19

On 04/26/2011 04:06 PM, caprus wrote:
>
> Did you know that KPackageKit offers you the same ability? Before any
> updates are installed the available ones are listed, and you have the
> opportunity to deselect any not wanted. I started out very skeptical
> about this little updater, but I’m getting more nearly comfortable;)
> with it as I learn more about it.

maybe i am wrong, but i am of the opinion that the KDE updater is not
fully and completely integrated with YaST…so, i use it (for now) only
as a signal, not as an installer…

ymmv…that is, you are welcome to use it as you wish…but, i do hope
if you have any problems you will document those (like all the
“seemingly random repos” mysteriously check marked by some unknown hand,
etc!!!

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!

#20

On 04/26/2011 04:06 PM, caprus wrote:
>
> Oh Well, progress not perfection. Right?
>

be sure and log the bugs you found, see: http://tinyurl.com/nzhq7j

–
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[openSUSE 11.3 + KDE4.5.5 + Thunderbird3.1.8 via NNTP]
Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern
by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin Pi!