Should the developers release a new version of 11.4 Suzy?

From the day, it was released 11.4 Suzy users had lot of problems. I downloaded the 64bit, checked the CD, installed and got into strange problems like the need to keep the Live CD in the CDRom. Then I downloaded the 32bit and it did install nicely, but now its giving problems. from time to time, it doesn’t boot, and when trying 1-2, it boots up. After booting up, it works well, well not always, sometimes it loses firefox. This is the gnome version. I have installed the Gnome 64 and 32 bit few times. The laptop is Ok, a Lenovo T400 core 2 duo.

Maybe, the developers should release a newer version of this Suzy 11.4?

I have written about this matter earlier and then stopped, but as I’d like to have Suzy working, my request above. Would others agree?

It sounds like flaky or incompatible hardware. You yourself said:

The laptop is Ok, a Lenovo T400 core 2 duo

Caf, we discussed this matter earlier. It is a very good laptop, and Suzy 11.3 had no problems with it. I strongly think that the developers should release a new version!

Debian 6 was released too early and had umpteen problems, and now released a new version “stating” that they had got rid of the bugs, which were there in Debian 6! Everyone is quite jittery about the new Ubuntu coming up…

Suzy came out with too much problems, so there should be a new version!

On 3 different machines, I’m not really seeing any problems.So I beg to differ with you.

You could always try one of the kde-reloaded
Index of /repositories/KDE:/Medias/images/iso

No, I would want something like Gnome or Openbox, but Gnome is better, KDE has something I don’t like, the “K” word…And if there is a Gnome problem, the developers know about that. I have read umpteen amount of cries for help in this forums, too much really!

I’m actually using gnome, unusual for me, But there we are.
Still no problems

well, let the others say too…

Actually no, … I don’t agree.

First thou, can you call openSUSE the name openSUSE and NOT Suzy ? Thats the name it goes by and it is trademarked as such. It is NOT Suzy. Would you like it if people called your handle SLPolakzy ?

I installed 11.4 in a test partition on two separate PCs:

  • 64-bit Intel Core i7 920
    w/6GB RAM (Asus P6T Deluxe V2 motherboard) w/ PCI-e nVidia GeForce GTX260 graphics [age ~2 years] - installed KDE4 version from DVD on a test partition. Audio was a bit tricky to setup but was manageable after installing pavucontrol. It is faster and thus far superior to every previous openSUSE version I have tried.
  • 32-bit AMD Athlon-1100
    w/1GB RAM (MSI KT3 Ultra motherboard) w/AGP nVidia GeForce FX5200 graphics [age ~10-years] - installed LXDE version from DVD. This is my “sandbox” PC. Audio was a bit tricky to setup but was manageable after installing pavucontrol. It is faster and thus far superior to every previous openSUSE version I have tried.

I tested from the liveCD on my

  • 64-bit Intel P8400
    w/4GB RAM (64-bit Dell Studio 1537 Laptop), w/ATI Radeon 3450HD graphics [age ~2+ years]. I tested with 64-bit 11.4 KDE liveCD. It needed nomodeset to boot, and wireless would stop after 5 minutes requiring a reboot. The nomodeset problem turned out to be a problem that is on liveCD (initrd built with a couple of packages missing - it will be fixed in factory for 11.5 and problem does not exist in DVD version). The wireless problem is KDE specific (ie an upstream problem) and does not exist in Gnome. I may install 11.4 Gnome on this PC in a month or two.
  • 64-bit Core i7-860
    w/6GB RAM (Asus P7H55-M, H55 motherboard) w/GeForce G210 graphics [age ~4 months] (my wife’s new PC). I tested with 64-bit 11.4 KDE liveCd. It worked fabulous with 11.4. I may install 11.4 on this PC in a month or two.
  • 32-bit Intel 1.5 celeron
    w/1.256 GB RAM (Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo 7400M Laptop) with Intel i855 graphics [age ~7 years] . openSUSE-11.4 works better than 11.3, 11.2 but not better than 11.1 due to the killer i855GM graphics on this laptop. Hence I’ve left 11.1 with Evergreen support on this laptop.
  • 32-bit Intel Pentium M Processor 715
    (HP Compaq NC4010) w/512MB RAM, w/AMD Radeon IGP 350M graphics [age ~ 8 years]. This is our LUG latop. Installed 32-bit 11.4 LXDE destkop. It works amazingly well. Better than 11.3.

In essence, 11.4 on the average worked better than any previous openSUSE release. Not in all cases, but in most cases.

I used to call OpenSuse as Suzy quite a long time ago, somewhere around 2006. Most times guys from Europe calls it that way. If you want to call me SLPolakzy, its quite alright for me!

Its German from the beginning and many used to pronounce it Susie or Suzy. its still German anyway! Not everything can be hijacked to USA, right pal?

Now, this is not the question, and it is not for you, but for the umpteen amount of Suse users, who are having trouble. I can get out of the trouble, but not many can, so there should be a newer version. There is update anyway, so why fight? Did I say it was bad?

Do you want users to move out?

I used to call OpenSuse as Suzy quite a long time ago, somewhere around 2006. Most times guys from Europe calls it that way. If you want to call me SLPolakzy, its quite alright for me!

Its German from the beginning and many used to pronounce it Susie or Suzy. its still German anyway! Not everything can be hijacked to USA, right pal?

Whatever you choose to call it, its proper name is “openSUSE” as oldcpu has already explained.

Now, this is not the question, and it is not for you, but for the umpteen amount of Suse users, who are having trouble. I can get out of the trouble, but not many can, so there should be a newer version. There is update anyway, so why fight? Did I say it was bad?

Do you want users to move out?

Every new version (of any OS) brings new features, along with a few bugs, and problems for users with certain hardware or software. Best to stick with the supported version(s) that work for you. There will be fixes for the current verson (11.4) along the way, but only by submitting bug reports - not by simple suggestions to release a new version of 11.4. The only way to ensure problems are minimised, is for as many users to get involved with beta testing for the next version in development. This is always going to be subjective argument anyway, many users have no problems at all, so if that’s not the case for you, its best to direct your energy to the developers via IRC and/or bug reports, not rant here.

My 2c…

Perhaps we should make clear that what takes place in openSUSE’ s development is part of the foundation for the Enterprise OS’ from Novell.
So whilst it’s ‘Stable’, it’s also ‘Cutting Edge’ (Let the reader use discernment).

And as @deano said:

This is always going to be subjective argument anyway

its best to direct your energy to the developers by IRC and/or bug reports.

There will be a newer version, in about 9 months. It will be either called 11.5 or 12.0.

In the mean time there will be updates via the OSS, Non-OSS, and the Update repositories.

And in addition, for those users who MUST have an update that is such a significant change that it is not included in OSS, Non-OSS, nor update, there is a new ‘feature’ associated with 11.4 called Tumbleweed, where one can add the Tumbleweed repository and get significant (and cutting edge) fixes/changes that were not possible before in previous openSUSE versions.

11.4 has improvements over earlier openSUSE versions for most , but not all hardware.

What would be helpful, is a clarification as to what specific hardware has problems, so that work arounds can be established. There is no point in spending one second on talking about new extra releases when this has not been done. General posts with no facts do not help. I provided specifics on my PCs where 11.4 works (and does not work).

How about others doing the same.

Else this is all pointless.

What openSUSE needs is users who contribute.

Having a distribution with 100-million users who do not contribute (but complain), and 1 contributer means the distribution will be dead within a week or two.

A distribution with 5-thousand users and 5-thousand contributors will be successful.

Now neither of those unrealistic hypothetical scenarios are what we want, but I think it illustrates a point. The point is a distribution with those who contribute will succeed. A distribution with those who just complain will fail. Just complaining with no specifics does not help one iota.

Users who contribute specifics are what we need.

A global view that openSUSE from Novell has massive resources is falacious and simply wrong. OpenSUSE survives mostly by the contributions of its users. Note the word “contributions”. There are NOT massive resources supporting the testing, nor the development. There is no multi-billion euro organization pouring money into openSUSE. There is NOT. Instead there are volunteers like caf4926, deano_ferrari, and many others, who give up of their own free time to move the distribution forward.

But there are NOT enough volunteers. And more are needed in order to move things forward. Simple complaints based on what appear to be ill informed assessments (ill informed because there are no facts to support) are not helpful. Not one bit.

I live in Germany and I am not a US citizen. The USA does not come into this and political posts are not allowed on our forums. Please follow the forum rules and keep political views and assessments out of this. They do nothing to support your view.

Best wishes and thankyou for trying openSUSE.

Ok, Ok! Everyone had gone off a tangent, just because I suggested that there should be a corrected release… No, not exactly everyone, but some only…

Anyway, let’s have a look at so many problems in this thread only - install/boot/login…One has to get the Live CD booted up to install, then the OS must boot up to user to use it. Then only he can updtae it. The problem is that many can’t get the OS to boot up, and install too. Some have written that they can’t boot up after installing…So, there should be some “bugs” from the beginning!

Oldcpu’s sugestions didn’t work earlier, and they are sort of normal Linux suggestions.

Now, Suse had originated from Slackware a long time ago, and Slackware is not that popular somehow with users, just like Gentoo is not popular, but Sabayon is.

I don’t think there are laptops in thi sworld, which only work for Ubuntu, Sabayon, Gentoo, Slackware, Debian, Puppy Linux, Pardus, etc, but won’t work for OpenSuse. Come on, I am not going to buy that.

I strongly believe that there should be a new release without the bugs it came with, or many users would move out…Anyway, I think you guys should think positively, rather than defensively…Take care!

This could be the last release, so I’d like to have it without bugs!

Show me a release, whatever OS, that doesn’t have bug fixes during it’s lifetime, never mind immediately post release.
I guess the Ubuntu forum is dead because it’s a bug free release?

We are not on the defensive, we just realists.

Exactly! That’s why I want to have this 11.4 release as good as possible. It could be the last one!
You notice what’s at the bottom of this page? “© 2007 Novell, Inc. All Rights Reserved.”

That’s why! Novell is sold or going to be sold…

Now you are just being a Troll

Well, when people don’t really know how to reply, they look for a word - troll…funny!
I still have 11.3, so not a real worry!
I’ll wait for a while and download 11.4 again, even though the number would not be changed the contents will be!

wrt this comment, what I have noted on 11.4 is the users who have difficulty are:

  • users with AMD RadeonHD find their nominal boot fails from a liveCD (I wrote an AR on this). They need to use the bootcode ‘nomodeset’. This work around is documented in the release notes. The bug ‘crept in’ between openSUSE-11.4 RC1 and RC2 and unfortunately it was not fixed in time for GM version. Later it was determined to be a problem in building the liveCD (a couple of rpms or modules not present with initrd (?) run for liveCD creation - I don’t know exact technical details). In one of the follow-on bug reports it was queried if this bug was sufficient to require a new openSUSE-11.4 liveCD and the answer provided by SuSE-GmbH packagers was not. It is handled by release notes. The problem is NOT in the DVD. Its only the liveCD boot that has it, and both ‘nomodeset’ and ‘failsafe’ work.
  • various Intel hardware users have a problem with a nominal boot. In almost every case (but not all cases) a fail safe boot , using the FVDEV driver works.
  • a small number of nVidia hardware users find they need to use failsafe (forces FBDEV driver) or ‘nomodeset’ boot (forces ‘nv’ driver) to boot the liveCD and DVD. Again, there are typically work arounds for tuning.
  • a very small number of HP users have problems that the boot CD won’t even get to gurb.

In most cases there are work arounds, but no automatic boot solutions without massive and complex code insertion that would likely cause other problems in reliability.

The above are only a very small % of the PC users.

And in most cases, the problems are not openSUSE specific but they are Linux wide.

A lot of the current graphics hiccups are a direct result of the Linux community moving from using the classic /etc/X11/xorg.conf config file, to instead using an automatic X configuration from xorg. And also from KMS being enabled to improve the automatic hardware detection. However xorg’s automatic hardware identification, and automatic driver selection, is not perfect.

openSUSE is not the only distribution bit by this. Most other distributions are also bit by such problems. Dependant on the distribution, some hardware will initially work better than others.

Now reference terminology, in the 9.x and earlier days, the name SuSE was used. From 10.x and later, it was decided to make the old SuSE more open source, and remove the proprietary code that was inside. This was significant ! Most users simply did not understand how significant this was. To attempt to illustrate how important and signficant that was, then along with that fundamental change in SuSE, the name of the distribution was changed from SuSE to openSUSE. As to why they used the English word “open” instead of a German name for “open” is not something I know about, but I suspect the view was the English name would be more widely accepted if they did that.

When one says Suse or Suzzy or Suzie it is massively confusing, because there is no idea as to exactly what one is talking about. One could be refering to 9.x and earlier version of SuSE. One could be refering to current versions of SLED (SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) or SLES (SuSE Linux Enterprise Server) or one could be simply completely misusing the term to describe openSUSE.

It is simply not clear, and there is no reason for being unclear.

And if one person starts being unclear, it leads others to be unclear, and then we have total confusion. So lets avoid that.

I see no evidence of that. Just the contrary. Perhaps you can show your reference for that? If all your logic is built on statements such as that, then IMHO it does not provide support for the rest of your views. …

Anyway, thankyou for the suggestions, but as I noted, we need contributers with specifics, and not general non-specific suggestions. One needs to note the exact hardware with problems. One needs to differentiate those having problems because of basic fundamental misunderstandings in the users, to those having problems because of problems with the distribution. General statements do not provide that differentiation.

Also, something I should have stated earlier, note that our opensUSE forum is full of volunteers who support openSUSE, but who have no extra influence on the packaging of openSUSE. Those of us on the forum are NOT SuSE-GmbH nor Novell employees. The SuSE-GmbH developers and SuSE-GmbH packagers for openSUSE do NOT visit the forum. They do not. I hope that is clear. They do not. Those developers and packagers exchange their information via mailing lists and via IRC chat channels. There is guidance here as to how one can connect to those communcation media: openSUSE:Communication channels - openSUSE

So IF one wishes to raise such an issue with the developers, then this forum is not the place.