I had been a distro hopper for a while. I never quite found a Linux that got it all right. I also have preferred KDE for a desktop environment. I know there are a bunch of low resource environments. But I have a very powerful computer, so the KDE overhead is irrelevant. KDE 4.8 finally got to where it should have been the whole time. Since what I do with my computer is very involved with business, I also did not want to try some of the lesser known distros. Mint Linux has always been pretty solid, but their implementation of KDE always appeared to be an afterthought. Kubuntu was okay, but I didn’t like it as much as Mint. Any of the other distros with KDE were either too obscure or not well polished. It was a tough decision a while back to choose Mint 13 and 14 KDE 64 bit over OpenSuse 12.1 and 12.2. Let me just say Ubuntu is weird. Forget that distro. They’ve decided to go their own way and throw everybody else under the bus. Yep, I also liked Debian, but that thing took hours and hours to configure properly to my liking. Windows 8 is a disaster in the making too. I would endure a root canal before switching to that. I tried the developers preview. What the heck is Microsoft thinking? This is going to make the Vista disaster look like a sunny afternoon. I actually ran Mandriva for years before they went into a meltdown.
I have an HP XW8600 Workstation with dual quad core 3Ghz Xeons, 32G of DRAM and an Nvidia GT520 card with 1G of RAM. I hardly need a light DE like XFCE, LXDE, Mate or etc. Gnome is okay, but not as pretty or evolved as KDE. Clunkier too.
Then I installed OpenSuse 12.3 64-bit with KDE 4.10.1 on my system on a spare drive to take a look. Wow. Not only is it the most polished execution of KDE, it is just rock solid, fast and has some great support. I think this is the best distro of Linux ever. This thing looks so good, is so easily configurable and is just a pleasure to work with. I installed lots of extra stuff. I got the 3D OpenGL desktop effects working great. I installed lots of graphics software familiar to us all. I also have to say something about all the Ubuntu based distros. None of them has a decent HTML editor anymore. Seriously!!! You have to do back-flips to install Seamonkey, Kompozer or Bluegriffon in the Ubuntu variants. But OpenSuse has Bluegriffon and Seamonkey right there in the repos! I also installed Virtualbox. I already had a vbox appliance with WinXPP in it. So I just imported it from my previous Mint 14 install and made a pretty icon for it. You can see the icon on my desktop. All in all, this operating system is just beautiful. Heck, I think Apple should toss OSX and use this instead. You can see a snapshot of my desktop here:
I’ve said for years that Suse has always had the most polished distro when it came to the look and feel of it. All others seem like they didn’t really put a lot of attention into that part of it. openSUSE 12.3 is no exception. It’s got that traditional Suse polish that just isn’t duplicated by anyone else in the entire Linux community.
I agree that the KDE is polished, but R support is broken, at least on the VM I tried, so I blew it away and until I see on the cran-r website a one-click install for 12.3, I will stick with 12.2.
I’ve been an Ubuntu user since 2006. I’ve enjoyed Ubuntu very much, as it’s always felt like a distro that just worked without too much fuss. I even enjoyed working with the more recent versions of Unity, but I still had frustrations with it. I decided that if I’m going to use Linux, I want to use something that is more agnostic. If I stick with Ubuntu, I get Unity. But what if I leave Ubuntu? Unity isn’t on any other distro… so the appeal began to wear off. I decided to explore other desktop environments… after KDE’s usual suspects began to ward me off, I found that Gnome Shell was the perfect fit. But then I felt like it was an unbalanced outlook. Ubuntu clearly prefers Unity and doesn’t care about upstream support or Gnome Shell support or KDE support, etc. Once I was off of the Unity wagon I really began to see the full picture. So, the hunt began for a distro that just made more sense. I’ve previously had little blips of experience with Fedora, CentOS, Debian, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Mint, and even OpenSUSE, so I figured this wouldn’t be too much of a shell shock to experiment a bit.
As I looked around for the distro that is most likely to support a full Gnome 3.8 environment first, OpenSUSE came on the radar as I saw a blog post from the one Gnome/OpenSUSE dev citing that 3.8 support is coming very shortly. This was appealing because Ubuntu GNOME 13.04 will be shipping with 3.6, with half of 3.8 being included via PPA (meh). Fedora 19 is coming with 3.8 but it’s a ways off with a mid summer release. I wanted a full 3.8 instance, so I figured Arch would be my best bet until I caught this blog post. As a result, I decided to give OpenSUSE a shot. As the ISO downloaded I did some reading. I cannot put into words how anxious I got when I began seeing how OpenSUSE is a top contributor to LibreOffice, and how well the KDE vs Gnome teams work together. I love hearing about the agnostic outlook with OpenSUSE in regard to desktop environments, as they clearly support them rather equally. Reading about the build service just blew my mind too and begged the obvious question - if this service is intelligent enough and convenient enough to package all sorts of Linux software into different formats for different distros, as a developer why would you NOT have an OpenSUSE box around to help with this task? That service seems to take care of a rather substantial amount of software fragmentation that exists in the Linux community.
The only thing I’m going to have to get used to is resorting to YaST for certain activities. I’m a bit of a terminal junkie, so when I tried to nano into /etc/network/interfaces I hit a road block. YaST however bailed me out, but still, it’s things like that that I’m going to have to re-learn. I still do prefer terminal for certain tasks, so… maybe I’ll find a way to work around that.
I don’t know, maybe the older I get the more Richard Stallman-esque I begin to feel, but there’s something substantial to be said about a distro like OpenSUSE that is overflowing with raw talent that helps out upstream rather significantly. That alone is enough of a reason to keep me around. It’s been a very short test drive with OpenSUSE so far, but as of now I have no complaints whatsoever.
You have the option of trying out E17,Sawfish,awesome,lxde,xfce,gneom,kde,minimalistic etc if you have a dvd installer. I have not even heard any other distro packing so many desktops.
Also can get openSUSE documentation here doc.opensuse.org - Documentation Guides & Manuals
I prefer the RPM system which SuSE provides in place of other package managers, and I also prefer GNOME to Unity, but I have to say that Ubuntu is clearly the best alternative within the GNU/Linux space to Apple OS/X or MS Windows and I think that developers of other GNU/Linux distributions need to do some rethinking of their mission, because simply updating packages, every 6 months and calling it a new release is starting to get boring.
I ran Mint for quite a while. I always had the one spare drive that I always put my distro hopping experiments. Mint with KDE seems to be an after thought for they developers of it. They’re mostly into their Cinnamon and Mate thing. Whereas OpenSuse appears to be focused more on KDE. I have been using 12.3 as my primary OS since it came out.
It’s too bad that GNU/Linux is unable to gain a 30+% foothold on the desktop OS. What is holding this possibility back? Is it the constanly changing hardware scene, and Linux developers cannot keep up, or is it commercial OS usurping Linux power by incorporating Linux ideas, or is it simply user apathy or prejudice? Most Windows users I know have a very low opinion of Linux, very low, and they have never tried the OS. It reminds of a comment I heard on commercial radio recently by a Mets fan that “Yankees fans were terrible people!” Huh?
IMHO both of those are major plausible reasons. There is also the factor, “better the devil you know, than the one you don’t.”
My suspicion wrt software developers, is a software developer who earns money off of the proprietary software they sell, why dive into developing software for an OS that offers competing software for free per the free software foundation of free ? Especially given that OS (GNU/Linux) is used by such a small % of the world user base.
As for hardware developers, they are trying to minimize their owners/share holder’s expenses to maximize profits. If there is any trimming down to be done in their expenses, then cutting out the GNU/Linux market is one debatable way to do this.
… or they met people who tried, who gave up, and who convinced them never to try themselves.
My sister (an MS-Windows user) used to always put down GNU/Linux based on the few times she would be visiting my mother, and she was not able to help my mother with GNU/Linux , so my sister always complained about GNU/Linux. Typically my mother would call me, I would remotely login to her GNU/Linux PC from a continent away, and I would in minutes fix her GNU/Linux setup. The idea that it took someone 1/3 the way around the world to fix my mother’s PC was understandable a factor that did not impress my sister, even though the GNU/Linux hiccups were few and far between.
Then one long weekend came when my sister spent the entire weekend trying to recover from a Windows7 problem on one of her own PCs, where the PC would refuse to consistently properly boot. Finally after a couple of dozen hours of effort she restored Windows7. Since then, she has not said anything bad vs GNU/Linux as she knows now that no OS is free of its problems.
Most people I know who have tried GNU/Linux have moved into it after a frustrating session with MS-Windows. IMHO that may not be the best environment/attitude in which to explore GNU/Linux, but it does sometimes seem to be the predominant new GNU/Linux user’s starting background.
I much too often hear and read how badly it was MS behavior who hold the
Linux desktop back by their bad business practices (and sure this had
influence), but I see myself too many reasons that this lack of wide
spread acceptance of Linux as a viable alternative for desktop users is
a self made problem.
Developer driven creation of desktop environments instead of being
driven by end users needs, to a certain degree this may be a natural
consequence of the FOSS development, but honestly I do not really
believe that - it is much more a question of mindset and attitude.
Lack of native or fully Linux compatible software end user software in
some fields which can compete with what is available for Windows (it
get’s better, but how long did it really take long ago until we had a
usable office suite - I think here back to the situation when I started
with Linux in the mid 90s).
For a very long time a too geeky and nerdy attitude by the GNU/Linux
users themselves in mailing lists and community forums (I started to
participate roughly 14 years after I started using Linux, the reason I
mentioned above is one of the reasons which hold me back from
participating for more than a decade).
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PC: oS 12.3 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.10.0 | GTX 650 Ti
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.3 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.10.0 | HD 3000
HannsBook: oS 12.3 x86_64 | SU4100@1.3GHz | 2GB | KDE 4.10.0 | GMA4500
I have an older notebook computer (p4 based) that runs Ubuntu, and works well enough for light weight duty albeit a worn out battery. I have one loaner computer running Ubuntu 10.4LTE that I let people use to keep up with email and such when their computer is in my shop for repairs - I have had several people ask me to install that distro on their personal computer before returning it, will be loading up 12.3 on it today to see if I have better responses from my clients. I have OpenSuSE 12.1 running on my shop computer used to diagnose and update computers that come in with issues, as well as slay the vast amount of vermin usually found on Windows based machines. It is geared toward forensics and repair, runs KDE and is bullet proof. I just recent built my new home server with 12.3 and KDE, am setting it up right now to act as File Server, Media Server, Network administration and controller as well as Intranet server for our extended family and it is running smoothly, not one sign of trouble.
IMO - I would take OpenSuSE / KDE over Ubuntu / Gnome especially if using for administration, or “power user” functions. I am not sold on the new Ubuntu desktop, or user experience as it seems just a little too out there for my tastes. I was extremely happy with the way that 12.3 fits in well with KDE, has a well polished look and works intuitively with most of the bundled apps that I have used over the years. Of the most recent Windows releases, I have Windows 7 Ultimate for my gaming needs and a recently purchased notebook has Windows 8 installed, and I have to agree - it is useless and confusing on a computer - would be better suited for use on the XBOX or other such console. It is barely useable on a touch screen device, may be the only setup workable if one must use it productively. If installed on an Mouse / Keyboard computer it is awkward and useless with most features buried or simply not available to the end user. I plan on researching my new toy, will see if there are any “Windows 8 only” devices present that I cannot live without then move it to either OpenSuSE 12.3 or Windows 7 (potentially dual booting) as soon as I can.
With the “Windows” camp - it would seem to be schizophrenic with the releases… Windows 98 / Windows ME, Windows XP / Vista, and Windows 7 / Windows 8… I see two separate forks to the progression, one that is functional and works somewhat as expected, the other focused on “looks” over functionality. If I was not an avid FPS gamer - I would be dumping anything Windows related into the recycle bin ASAP.
The same as what holds it back from achieving even 5 or 10%. Linux would have to overcome its invisibility to the consumer, in the face of two household names: Windows (plus Microsoft) and Apple. The conventional way is through promotion and advertising. Of course, a unique selling point(s) helps. If the money isn’t available to do that, you need sponsorship that can do it and is also prepared to spend the cash. Assuming a distribution with comparable functions, documentation, and applications that work, is packaged and available, it needs to be placed at the appropriate points of sale.
The best point of sale would be on new machines available from shops and online. Ah, that old problem. Yes, ordinary consumers don’t spend hundreds of Dollars, Euro, or UK Pounds on a machine to get it home and then to download and install an operating system plus all the applications and documentation.
Ah, the documentation issue. Most of it would need to be rewritten by people who know how to write user documentation for consumers. No, the man page isn’t a solution, and neither is the command line (great for system administrators). Luckily there are some exceptions, and the official openSUSE documentation is a reasonable starting point.
Of course there is an alternative in maintaining the status quo. However don’t expect improvements in the software to translate into increased market share, certainly not in the short to medium time frame, not without a seismic event or shift in the marketplace.
On 04/21/2013 03:46 PM, RichardET wrote:
> It’s too bad that GNU/Linux is unable to gain a 30+% foothold on the
> desktop OS.
really: why should we care?
i mean, not every one is smart enough, or persistent enough, or has
patience enough to run MS-Windows, or PlayStation…so, for sure
Linux is not for everyone…and, there are lots and lots of folks
who ARE smart enough (etc) to run MS-Windows but will never make it
in Linux until it is as ‘easy’ as Win…and, when THAT happens it
will be as easy to krack.
because either you batten down the hatches and keep the user and
administrator/root separate…OR not . . .
anyway, Linux leads in most all categories other than desktop–so,
let Mr. Bill have one BIG piece of the LITTLE (and shrinking) desktop
pie…
they have been clawing to get a toe hold in back office, internet
infrastructure, and mobile for YEARS and have barely scratched the
surface…and, ask’em how many insurance company mainframes or NSA
crypto-crackers or ‘super-computers’ or stock markets or or or they
provide the software for…
it is just that the desktop users come here and moan that MS still
has the big slice of the shrinking pie…its ok with me, and i’m
not gonna worry about it…
Your naivete is glaring. Basically you saying that it is great that Linux remains the 5% solution, because that fact indirectly keeps it out of the hands of the dangerous masses, who might “krack” it.
Pe
> Then one long weekend came when my sister spent the entire weekend
> trying to recover from a Windows7 problem on one of her own PCs, where
> the PC would refuse to consistently properly boot. Finally after a
> couple of dozen hours of effort she restored Windows7. Since then, she
> has not said anything bad vs GNU/Linux as she knows now that no OS is
> free of its problems.
> Most people I know who have tried GNU/Linux have moved into it after a
> frustrating session with MS-Windows. IMHO that may not be the best
> environment/attitude in which to explore GNU/Linux, but it does
> sometimes seem to be the predominant new GNU/Linux user’s starting
> background.
I have found that a Linux desktop is very easy for users, as long as
somebody else does the maintenance.
A relative asked me to use my laptop to see her email, she needed
firefox. I just connected it up and went elsewhere. She had never used
Linux, but did not even comment on it: my laptop simply worked for her
just fine.
With Windows, people often have some basic knowledge or have a friendly
neighbor or relative to whom they ask for advice or help. With Linux it
is more difficult to obtain it, they have to row against the current. If
they do have that help, it is a happy thing.
However, I would like to be paid
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
On 2013-04-21 19:06, consused wrote:
> Ah, the documentation issue. Most of it would need to be rewritten by
> people who know how to write user documentation for consumers. No, the
> man page isn’t a solution, and neither is the command line (great for
> system administrators). Luckily there are some exceptions, and the
> official openSUSE documentation is a reasonable starting point.
Right.
But you forget the translations: most of the docs are not translated
(not even man pages).
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
On 2013-04-21 20:22, dd wrote:
> On 04/21/2013 03:46 PM, RichardET wrote:
>> It’s too bad that GNU/Linux is unable to gain a 30+% foothold on the
>> desktop OS.
>
> really: why should we care?
Well, I’d love not to have to boot Windows to load my tom-tom maps, or
drm protected books into my kobo book ereader. Stuff I paid for.
To get that, I need Linux to have an important market share, so that
manufacturers provide apps for my gadgets and don’t laugh at me when I
ask them.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
