Project Rebrand?

I would also like to see something more formal to the community from SUSE about this request. I’m not sure why it’s being done the way it is. But I trust the folks at SUSE, and those who have said that it’s not a demand, just a polite request.

I don’t think rebranding is being done as step 1. It’s just the thing that everyone is talking about here and on the ML because it’s tied to the request from SUSE. I think there’s probably an element of “how should the project handle this” at the moment, and a lot of the community just guessing and focusing on the branding because that’s more visible than the project governance and what that might look like in the future.

I don’t think that was evident from the ‘we-re-all-grown-up-opensuse-is-not-suse’ talk. The logo has already been decided for example.

That was written when in fact there was only one distribution:

https://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Portal:Distribution&action=history

This is a long and lively thread, as fully expected. I probably did not grasp every detail. I just wanted to add my view as a happy user of SUSE/openSUSE since 2004 (currently Tumbleweed since around 2018) with 99% positive experiences.

As many others pointed out rebranding is an opportunity but has to be done well to be successful. I am all in favor of a well-done rebranding if the backing company deems this to be necessary to keep the business side thriving and if this means that the free, open source OS versions will be supported in the foreseeable future. We must count with the fact that not everyone will be happy, but if done well it will be worth the effort in the long term. Having said that, it will be a huge disappointment if this will mark the beginning of the end of this excellent free OS and the support we all enjoyed from SUSE.

2 Likes

Hi!!

It seems we need to remember the context here. Long post alert! :grinning:

On the one hand, openSUSE was born as a project during the Novell era. At that time it was common for many projects to try to develop a community that would support a good part of that project or serve as a testing or experimentation stage. Whatever the reason, the word open was often added to the name to distinguish the business project from the community one. But since the time of Novell SUSE is a 100% open company, so “openSUSE” is really confusing.

For years, many of us have suggested that adding “open” to a word to highlight its free nature is bad practice from a marketing point of view.

On the other hand, openSUSE at the beginning was several things: a community documentation project (the wiki, the forum), a development system (OBS) and a version of the SLE distribution. But be careful, only one version. For example, for years openSUSE opted for KDE (now Plasma) while SLE came with Gnome. Installing KDE/Plasma was optional and not supported. Since then, openSUSE has developed a bunch of versions. We have a rolling release (Tumbleweed), a stable one (Leap) but also hybrid projects and experiments: Leap Micro, MicroOS (and Aeon and Kalpa)… and not all of them are of interest to SUSE. It is foreseeable that Leap Micro will correlate with SLE Micro, but it does not seem that they are going to use anything that is done with Kalpa, for example.

Sometimes we also have problems with confusing brand with product, partly because of how the project originated in the Novell era. Let me use commercial names here. Everyone knows what an Audi is and at the same time intuits the differences between A3 and A4. If you go to their marketing space (their website) you will see that when they talk about the models, they limit themselves to listing their names: A3, A4, … the ones they have. Somehow they assume that if you are looking at their products you already know that they are their products and that what you want is information about them, not about the brand. But on TV they will announce how shiny and cool “your new Audi A4” or whatever is.

Returning to openSUSE, if you go to https://get.opensuse.org you will see that, in the same way, products are listed without openSUSE, and the same thing happens at https://www.opensuse.org. Even in Mastodon you will see that many times, when we want to focus on the product, we do not mention openSUSE, but Leap, Tumbleweed, etc. Nowadays openSUSE is the project (the brand), whatever it is, and everything else is the products of that project.

To change or not to change? I don’t really like “openSUSE” as brand too much, if it were in my power I would probably try to change it. Another thing is the opportunity or need to do it.

  • The opportunity: i.e. KDE changed the name of its desktop to Plasma with relative success. Even today it is common to find references to “KDE” or to “the KDE desktop”. It is not evident that a change in our brand would be more successful. Although there are those who say that if the brand does not remind us of the company, perhaps they could see us more as Debian and thus improve our “reception”.
  • The need: It is also key to know what SUSE really thinks about all this. The last step that openSUSE decided on was greater integration with SUSE in Leap. This would be a step in the opposite direction. SUSE has invested a lot in marketing to be able to say: you can use the community version just like SLE and when you are interested in support, you can move to SLE.
6 Likes

I agree, but it has already been stated here that it is being driven by a polite request from SUSE as discussed here and in the mailing list. Regardless of the ongoing debate and its potential consequences, the focus now shifts to executing the request.

1 Like

4 years after Tumbleweed was released in 11.2014, Tumbleweed’s name was added to that paragraph, but the phrase openSUSE distribution was left unchanged.

It shouldn’t be a catastrophe for the common people (like me) to just say openSUSE to refer to the whole of several distributions, should it?
https://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Portal%3ADistribution%2FIntro&type=revision&diff=131896&oldid=126022

That just means that no one came up with a better use for that expression. If something is not openSUSE, it is an operating system, not even a distribution. In any case, it’s a project that started out including a distribution (and tools like OBS or OpenQA, and a community with members and a board), and that now includes a bunch of distributions in its own right.

Don’t trust the wiki. Most of it is obsolete to varying degrees.

One question I haven’t seen in the thread is: where are we going?

  • We like to have a version for servers. Actually, we have a lot: both Leap and Tumbleweed can be installed like this, and they have versions for virtual machines and so on. Then there is the Micro world.
  • We like to have desktop versions although they are pushed in sometimes opposite directions. We have Leap and Tumbleweed, and Aeon/Kalpa.
  • We have the wiki, which as I say is quite obsolete. And that’s English, I’m not telling you about the support of languages ​​like Spanish! xd And of course we have this forum.
  • OBS. Well, this should be a value to highlight and protect.
  • Tools. YaST vs Agama, but now we have Cockpit but that comes from Red Hat, right?
  • etc.

In reality, a question about “rebranding” should begin with the question of what we are and what we want to be. And once you decide that, think about what we call ourselves. But here we are many fans and enthusiasts, but are all the members there? We fans may love, for example, Leap, but the members may not be very into the work of maintaining Leap.

1 Like

The logo happened before any of the current stuff - that wasn’t part of the name change discussion or the governance discussion; it was just a logo refresh.

No, but it is being incorporated into the “rebranding” proposal, and IMHO getting the right leadership structure in place is key to having a successful, functional, aligned community. This discussion hints at some of the current problems that exist with the current regime…

3 Likes

I don’t disagree with you on that point. Gertjan brought up several very good points in his letter.

2 Likes

Basic, simplified rebranding idea:

$NewProjectNameAndLogo

  • Tumbleweed
    – Derivates
  • Leap
    – Derivates
  • OBS
  • Kiwi
  • openQA
  • and many more most likely.

They all will be part of the $NewProject.

7 Likes

Thanks Gertjan. It’s the speculation around what exactly $NewProjectName will be that is exciting people here and on other platforms (which is a natural behaviour I think). However, I’m just as interested in understanding what a good governance structure will look like, and how that will be driven forwards.

1 Like

This could actually work.

I agree this is really very important.

But needs the very first question not to be: What can “we” (who ever that is/will be) afford?

Who will pay for servers, bandwidth, etc.?

In general: The one who pays will make the final decisions.

@susejunky there is no change with any infrastructure to create the distribution, it’s only the Project name.

1 Like

Asking another way: what is the SUSE real thinking about this? And the other sponsors?

Being an ordinary user of (open)S(U)uSE for more than 23 years now I would love nothing more but to believe this as well.

But reading statements (publicly made by an employee of SUSE) like

… But Tumbleweed is like 3x larger than SLE. 66% of what openSUSE does is irrelevant and should openSUSE become more popular that percentage would most likely grow. …
… This is how SUSE got aarch64 working in SLE so fast. But those are still a minority of cases and not justification for investing in improving openSUSEs popularity. …

it makes me thinking …

However this is just me and its up to everybody to read the information provided by this thread, the mailinglist, the internet, etc. and to make up their minds.

And as I said in the very beginning: If the only changes will be on names and logos then thats fine to me.

@susejunky logos are already done, voted, accepted etc… I’m happy for SUSE to slurp off my packages (which they do) as well as push/maintain packages in PackageHub. For that I get access to lots of resources (build service etc), these excellent forums :wink:

I’m also active in the SUSE Community (and even the OpenText Community (Novell/MicroFocus)) as I have been since circa 2007…

1 Like

This is ripped out of context. What seems to be ment is that the amount of code/packages in Tumbleweed is 3 times higher than what finally lands in SLE. And it is nicely explained, that increasing popularity of a product won‘t relief the stress from developers. The newly attracted short time maintainers which introduce a fancy new package to Tumbleweed ( bc Tumbleweed is the new hot stuff and definitely needs another new fancy useless package which is already dead upstream), loose interest, and the already overloaded base maintainers are left with additional work because of such one day flys…

1 Like