On 2012-02-12 20:11, Vahis wrote:
> My experience is that zypper is very good with dependencies ans so on, I
> don’t remember it having ever dumped any “bad wrong”, whatever that is.
I do.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
DenverD wrote:
> On 02/12/2012 08:39 PM, Vahis wrote:
>> If you run factory and there’s a new kernel available, yes.
>> Shouldn’t it?
>>
>> If you don’t want kernel, use option ‘–skip-interactive’
>
> yes, i recognize that there are many ways to reduce the likelyhood of
> murdering a system with “zypper up”, and you may know them all…but,
> does the OP in this thread, or will everyone else who googles in on the
> thread know all that you do?
Then why factory?
Factory will break although one does everything right.
That problem has nothing to do with zypper. Unless zypper is not broken,
which can be the case in factory.
…
Facrory is for advanced users only.
>
> i post the cautions for those who do not know the dangers…
Then factory is something you should not have anywhere near.
>
> if you know all the pitfalls and how to avoid them, why not write a wiki
> page or two on how to safely maintain a stable dependable system with
> “zypper up”…
I don’t think zypper is the problem there.
To safely maintain a stable dependable system requires to understand
what repos to use.
Then factory is something you should not have anywhere near.
>
> because around two or three times a week (or more) for of the last years
> a new user has posted in one of these fora with an insurmountable (to
> him/her) problem…
Factory will make sure of that.
>
> many coming from ubuntu take a glance at zypper and think it is like apt
> and they have “zipper up” to oblivion…and in many many cases the first
> order of business is looking over their repo list and culling out the
> clashing repos they have laid in for themselves with 1-Clicks…
>
> so, i’ll try to remember your ID and PM you in to help them a few
> thousand times and then . . . and be very happy to point them to your
> SDB pages on how to stay on the leading edge with “zypper up” with no
> danger of shooting yourself in the foot.
“Leading edge” and “no danger” do not belong in the same sentence.
Zypper is not the problem there.
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2012-02-12 20:11, Vahis wrote:
>> My experience is that zypper is very good with dependencies ans so on, I
>> don’t remember it having ever dumped any “bad wrong”, whatever that is.
>
> I do.
>
Did zypper break something although everything was in order?
Or was something else wrong in the first place?
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
On 02/13/2012 05:15 AM, Vahis wrote:
> Then why factory?
factory is only an example i gave because apparently you were unaware
of any possible problems when using “zypper up”…
factory is not the only repo which can, and does install software
which may, and has killed applications and systems via a “zypper up”…
but, i do not wish to argue about it.
–
DD
Read what Distro Watch writes: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW
DenverD wrote:
> On 02/13/2012 05:15 AM, Vahis wrote:
>> Then why factory?
>
> factory is only an example i gave because apparently you were unaware
> of any possible problems when using “zypper up”…
Not a very good example.
In case you have factory enabled and update stuff from there, it will
break things. That’s a given with factory.
Then it doesn’t matter whether you use zypper or something else.
So let’s leave factory out of this, it’s for advanced users.
And discussed in the mailing list.
>
> factory is not the only repo which can, and does install software
> which may, and has killed applications and systems via a “zypper up”…
Then it’s the wrong repos that are the culprit there.
Or rather, the administrator enabling them.
How should one update software from such repos instead of zypper?
IMHO not at all if one doesn’t know what one is doing.
…
>
> but, i do not wish to argue about it.
Me neither. But you should provide some kind of support for your
statement when you warn about some software doing nasty things.
I’ve read such things about ‘apper’ but I have never tried it and I know
nothing about it so I’m not saying anything about it.
YaST and zypper are the tools I use in software management.
In some cases you may have a set of wrong repositories enabled.
This may break things for sure.
And it seems to be a common situation with users who have just learned
enough to be dangerous.
None of the above has anything to do with zypper itself.
Zypper works the way it’s designed and does its job well.
Doing wrong things will break things. In case of stuff being done as
root the damage can be severe.
Of course, zypper like any other software can have problems in some
versions, there may be new bugs after fixing old ones, there are
sometimes regeressions in software.
If you find zypper doing things in a wrong way,like bugs in it or wrong
design, please report them in bugzilla.
But I’m assuming that you are not talking about faults in zypper, you
are saying that it breaks things in general.
And that’s where I disagree.
My point is that when the repos are right zypper does not break
things, not any more than anything else does, when it is being used in a
correct manner.
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
On 2012-02-13 05:20, Vahis wrote:
>> I do.
>>
>
> Did zypper break something although everything was in order?
> Or was something else wrong in the first place?
It wanted to updated things from places that were not correct, I knew it
would cause breaks.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
On 2012-02-13 09:45, Vahis wrote:
> DenverD wrote:
> Then it’s the wrong repos that are the culprit there.
> Or rather, the administrator enabling them.
Zypper does what it is told to do, it is not broken. However, using zypper
up can cause broken systems, it is a common occurrence here. It is a fact.
Me, I’m quite experienced, and I don’t ever use zypper up because I’m
afraid of it. I prefer to use yast, and review the entire list proposed and
click anything I don’t like back. I only update what I really want.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
> Vahis
please assist this user who just killed his java with “zypper up”
http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=472381
thanks in advance…
–
DD
Read what Distro Watch writes: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW
DenverD wrote:
>> Vahis
>
> please assist this user who just killed his java with “zypper up”
>
> http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=472381
>
> thanks in advance…
>
I updated my two 12.1 systems with zypper, too.
I also updated my 12.1 Tumbleweed with ‘zypper dup’.
All systems got their FF upgraded and nothing went wrong.
Already a few days back I got FF upgraded in my 11.4 systems.
Four 11.4 systems, all with zypper
Neither ‘zypper up’ nor ‘zypper dup’ broke anything here.
All my systems except Tumbleweed have this in root’s cron, runs every
nigh ever since zypper was introduced:
/usr/bin/zypper up -y -t patch --skip-interactive --auto-agree-with-licenses
That does only patches as you can see.
Maybe once a week or so I run ‘zypper up’ in cli.
So what can I say?
“Works fine here”?
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
On 02/13/2012 05:34 PM, Vahis wrote:
> “Works fine here”?
yes, i know…you said that before, and i’m asking you to help another
user have the same good fortune with “zypper up” as you have…
–
DD
Read what Distro Watch writes: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW
DenverD wrote:
> On 02/13/2012 05:34 PM, Vahis wrote:
>> “Works fine here”?
>
> yes, i know…you said that before,
I also wrote:“What can I say?”
And I meant it literally:“What can I say?”
and i’m asking you to help another
> user have the same good fortune with “zypper up” as you have…
>
I can read. I saw his question.
I don’t have the answer, sorry.
All I know it wasn’t zypper.
And I’m sure his question will or will not get answered by someone who
knows without you writing personal invitations to everybody you think
might be able to help,
The question is there. Give it some time. Let’s hope someone will step up.
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
On 02/13/2012 06:07 PM, Vahis wrote:
> Let’s hope someone will step up.
i was hoping you would be that someone.
maybe you can’t fix the broken java after the “zypper up”–so, leave
that to someone else
but can’t you figure out how “zypper up” didn’t cause this problem…
and help this user know how to use it safely as you do, and not kill
stuff with “zypper up”…
because it happens ALL the time…
daily.
–
DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat http://tinyurl.com/DD-Hardware
http://tinyurl.com/DD-Software
Read what Distro Watch writes: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW
DenverD wrote:
> On 02/13/2012 06:07 PM, Vahis wrote:
>> Let’s hope someone will step up.
>
> i was hoping you would be that someone.
Why would you think so?
If I read a post that I can help with I do so if I have the time.
I don’t need a recommendation or an invitation from you to do it.
If I do stuff with zypper here without problems does not mean I can
solve every hassle that’s been caused by having done who knows what.
I’m not Intellectual enough [1]
>
> maybe you can’t fix the broken java after the “zypper up”–so, leave
> that to someone else
I can’t fix java. Period.
I run it “as is” and I don’t touch the initial installation that comes
with the distro.
I’ve had my share of java trouble long ago.
If a special site requires a special plugin to work I won’t touch it.
I’m not going to add repos and install who knows what. Simple.
Solving java problems is not for me either.
>
> but can’t you figure out how “zypper up” didn’t cause this problem…
> and help this user know how to use it safely
as you do, and not kill
> stuff with “zypper up”…
You can kill stuff in a lot of ways.
>
> because it happens ALL the time…
> daily.
Seems so.
[1] Intellectuals solve problems. Geniuses prevent them.
This went to zypper and now we are in java.
We are sooo OT (policykit password unknown or broken)
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
On 2012-02-13 18:16, DenverD wrote:
> On 02/13/2012 06:07 PM, Vahis wrote:
>> Let’s hope someone will step up.
>
> i was hoping you would be that someone.
Me too.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
On 02/13/2012 10:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> i was hoping you would be that someone.
> Me too.
no, he only has time to explain to me how safe ‘zypper up’…
–
DD
Read what Distro Watch writes: http://tinyurl.com/SUSEonDW
DenverD wrote:
> On 02/13/2012 10:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> i was hoping you would be that someone.
>> Me too.
>
> no, he only has time to explain to me how safe ‘zypper up’…
>
The OP there has got the FF update in a perfectly good manner by doing
zypper up.
That is assuming that he has got the previous version in the normal way.
If there’s some development versions or such, originating from another
vendor involved, that’s another story. But nothing there indicates that.
My lack of time happened not to be the reason why I don’t do java
problems. I don’t do java cos I don’t have the skills.
But to try to prevent you from spreading negative things about a fine
piece of software I’m trying to explain this in such a way that you
could understand it.
This installs never versions of previously installed software.
Known as “version upgrades”
Zypper up does not do vendor changes, so when a piece of software is
originated from a certain vendor, it will get the never versions from
that same vendor.
A new version of any software can have regressions or new bugs, so be
aware of that.
A vendor here could be packman.
If the original version is from OSS or NON-OSS, possibly newer versions
from packman will not be installed.
If say, mplayer is installed from packman, it will get updated whenever
there’s a never version in packman available.
I remember having some trouble with VLC. A new version was bad.
I needed to wait for quite some time to get another, good version.
Once I got it, I tabooed it and kept the good working version from that on.
So there was trouble because a newer software package, not because of
zypper.
If one installs something by 1-click install, that often adds a repo.
It may be wise to disable that repo after installation if the software
does what one wanted.
I have some of those enabled and I get some updates from them though.
Then again, OSS and NON-OSS don’t have newer versions of anything.
So any software originating from those will get their updates only via
update repo. Updates there are from same vendor though, so zypper up
does them. Which is fine.
GOT IT?
Since it doesn’t make sense to fix something that’s not broken, I keep
some packages tabooed.
But a lot of people want to have a new version of everything.
Even better if before anyone else does.
That’s why some even run factory, which is for development and bug
removing, not to have the latest to brag about.
Those people are better off by subscribing to the factory mailing list.
This installs updates only if they are of type “patch”
These updates are in update repo.
This is a good way to install the patches automagically.
I have the following cron job running those:
7 1 * * * /usr/bin/zypper up -y -t patch --skip-interactive
--auto-agree-with-licenses
This updates all newer versions and also does vendor changes if another
vendor has a newer package.
It’s meant for ‘Distribution Upgrade’ (dup)
I have upgraded my systems several times with this, live.
A couple of times also leaping over a version, like from 11.2 to 11.4.
This is a supported way to go, from one version to the next only, though.
This is something where dependency problem solving may be required
though. So dependency problem solving is something one needs to know.
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
Anybody seen the OP?
No… Somewhere around post #20 this thread went off the track and the OP probably wisely went away.
Thread closed
swerdna wrote:
> post deleted thread closed
>
>
Forum plonked
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.2.4-6-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.9-1.4-desktop in EeePC 900
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:06:02 +0000, swerdna wrote:
> Knurpht;2440341 Wrote:
>> Anybody seen the OP?
>
> No… Somewhere around post #20 this thread went off
> the track and the OP probably wisely went away.
>
> Thread closed
Further replies in this thread will be deleted.
Jim
–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
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