PCLinuxOS

English Open Chat
#1

I will probably provoke some people with this thread, however, that’s not my intention; my intention is to tell that I’m now a happy user of a SystemD free Linux OS and would like to share this with the community, which still is the place I feel I belong; I’m now more than a content user of PCLinuxOS and, unless openSUSE shift it’s policy of sh(n)agging along with the SystemD development, I would highly recommend, for all of you with a distaste for being drooled upon, to shift your adherence to another distro; PCLOS would be a good (in general) choice in my opinion.

I still use openSUSE at work; however, as things are at the moment, that will, probably, soon change.

I highly oppose the current trend in the Linux community, which is the reason why I post this thread; I really appreciate the values of *freedom, opportunity *and choice in the software realm, and I can not see that SystemD adhere to those.

So, this is a bye for now.
All the best to all of you (especially: John, Jim, Carl, Carlos and consused)!!

Cheers,
Olav

#2

On 2015-12-15, F Sauce <F_Sauce@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com> wrote:
>
> I will probably provoke some people with this thread, however, that’s
> not my intention; my intention is to tell that I’m now a happy user of a
> SystemD free Linux OS and would like to share this with the community,

Glad to hear you’ve found a distro you’re comfortable with.

> I would highly recommend, for all of
> you with a distaste for being drooled upon, to shift your adherence to
> another distro;

It’s probably not fair to suggest all users booting through SystemD-based distros are being drooled upon, particular
when there are distros around that support multiple init daemons leaving the choice to the user.

> PCLOS would be a good (in general) choice in my opinion.

Use what works. If PCLinuxOS is providing you with a good experience, then that’s a good thing.

> I still use openSUSE at work; however, as things are at the moment, that
> will, probably, soon change.

I don’t think there’s much to be gained by confining every computer experience to one single GNU/Linux distribution. For
example, I use openSUSE on laptops and desktops, Gentoo on workstations, and install Linux Mint on the machines of
relatives/friends.

> I highly oppose the current trend in the Linux community, which is the
> reason why I post this thread;

I’m pretty sure posting this thread won’t make much of a difference to the current trend.

> I really appreciate the values of
> -freedom, opportunity -and -choice- in the software realm, and I can not
> see that SystemD adhere to those.

Use what works. SystemD seems to work fine on openSUSE and Debian based distributions. On Gentoo you can choose which
init system to compile. It really doesn’t matter, it’s just an init system. Booting in SystemD is a bit faster whereas
OpenRC is much more like sysvinit and therefore familiar to me without all those systemctl' commands. An incidently since you mention freedom, opportunity -and -choice’, I wonder whether PCLinuxOS offers the user the freedom,
opportunity, and choice of installing GNOME?

> So, this is a bye for now.

Bye for now, and perhaps see you later. And good luck with PCLinuxOS.

#3

How can you say it doesn’t matter ? :slight_smile: It does and in my opinion SystemD is simply the superior solution. Can do everything that the legacy init could do and more. I’m all for freedom of choice but why would you like to chose the worse solution ? Except some very specific cases I really don’t know.

@OP
If you want to know what features are available with SystemD and not with Sysinit V (hope this is the correct way to spell it) I highly recommend the fedora articles :
https://fedoramagazine.org/what-is-an-init-system/

There are 7 so far but they keep coming.

#4

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:26:01 +0000, glistwan wrote:

> How can you say it doesn’t matter ? :slight_smile: It does and in my opinion SystemD
> is simply the superior solution. Can do everything that the legacy init
> could do and more. I’m all for freedom of choice but why would you like
> to chose the worse solution ? Except some very specific cases I really
> don’t know.

I think most normal users don’t care, as long as the system boots in a
reasonable amount of time and they can do stuff. The whole “systemd vs
sysvinit” debate strikes me, in a lot of ways, as being as silly as “KDE
or GNOME” discussions are.

Applications are what normal users generally care about. An init system,
like a desktop, is just there to get you to applications.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#5

On 2015-12-16, Jim Henderson <hendersj@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com> wrote:
> The whole “systemd vs
> sysvinit” debate strikes me, in a lot of ways, as being as silly as “KDE
> or GNOME” discussions are.

Of course! The real worthwhile debate is “Vim vs emacs”!

#6

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:37:13 +0000, flymail wrote:

> On 2015-12-16, Jim Henderson <hendersj@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com>
> wrote:
>> The whole “systemd vs sysvinit” debate strikes me, in a lot of ways, as
>> being as silly as “KDE or GNOME” discussions are.
>
> Of course! The real worthwhile debate is “Vim vs emacs”!

LOL

vim, naturally. :slight_smile: (Actually, the better question for any tool is “for
what?” - as Mr. Scott said, use the right tool for the job).

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#7

On 2015-12-16, Jim Henderson <hendersj@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com> wrote:
> vim, naturally. :slight_smile:

Clearly, a savant with refined taste!

> (Actually, the better question for any tool is “for
> what?” - as Mr. Scott said, use the right tool for the job).

… for using as a text editor? I admit some emacs-only extensions demand every GNU/Linux I install to include emacs but
I can only cope with it with the Evil package.

I also admit to suggesting to junior colleagues deciding between the two to use emacs so they actually get some work
done!

#8

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:56:29 +0000, flymail wrote:

> On 2015-12-16, Jim Henderson <hendersj@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com>
> wrote:
>> vim, naturally. :slight_smile:
>
> Clearly, a savant with refined taste!
>
>> (Actually, the better question for any tool is “for what?” - as Mr.
>> Scott said, use the right tool for the job).
>
> … for using as a text editor? I admit some emacs-only extensions
> demand every GNU/Linux I install to include emacs but I can only cope
> with it with the Evil package.

That’s what I tend to use as the question, too. Some people frame it
more as “for using as a framework for text-based application development”

  • in which case, vim is a terrible choice. :slight_smile:

> I also admit to suggesting to junior colleagues deciding between the two
> to use emacs so they actually get some work done!

:slight_smile:

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#9

Hi
I just run SLE 11 SP4, it still has SysVinit… and compiz too… will switch to SLES on the MacBook next year which will keep going until 2019…

#10

I guess I am on the as long as it works side. I really desire hassle free computing.

I dind’t find that the case with the earlier introduction of systemd and on maybe on say monthly reboots on my sort of server box got into the habit of doing things like sending myself an email using the mail program to be sure that the postfix/cyrus/fetchmail setup had all started correctly. Opening a networked file to ensure Samba had started, etc, etc. I’ve not read of others suffering this sort of thing but for me, start ups and what services decided to run were sort of random and I didn’t consider having to have a sort of “check list” desirable. Things seem fine now but I probably would not have even been aware of the wider systemd debates had things always just worked for me.

Another thought. I’ve been a long term user of nVidia proprietary drivers. I think I am very much in favour of open source but if I’m going to find something that just works for free, I’m going to take that over say the pure version with problems. OK, that particular issue does not exist with systemd but it may be that I’m not pure linux user enough to get involved in some debates about it.

I think my couple for Rasp Pis uses intit and everything else her uses systemd. I’m happy either way as long as the boot works.

#11

Parker Jotter.

I do not much like Bic.:wink:

(otherwise, “Underwood”.)

#12

(no Nano?) :stuck_out_tongue:

Use what you are comfortable with.

I haven’t gotten into the systemd argument because franky I don’t understand it. So long as the system works in a predictable manner, I am happy with either.

But I generally stick with the “big 3”; SUSE based (openSUSE), Ubuntu(s) and Red Hat based (Fedora/CentOS). And even then, it has been a long times since I’ve used Red Hat based distribution(s).