Packman discontinued from Jan 1st 2027, but here's your chance!

[knurpht]

@susejunky

Why should anyone want to support a Flatpak-addicted community?

Rude, very rude. So

• Using Flatpaks makes you an addict?
• Using Packman makes you what? Entitled to shoot the messenger?

[malcolmlewis]

In some ways it’s a good thing, as in a chance to instead of just adding Packman to actually verify what works and doesn’t.

Then I suspect some further tweaks can be achieved on the openSUSE Build service to iron out some of those issues and really define what can be built etc…

Probably the only thing I will need to build locally is libheif and broadcom-wl.

[rrahl0]

@malcolmlewis

Probably the only thing I will need to build locally is libheif and broadcom-wl.

Do you mean this broadcom-wl? https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/broadcom-wl (nevermind, that it won’t build right now)

[malcolmlewis]

Yes I just patch it. But it’s not critical for the MacBook as have an Ethernet adapter. It’s running with the 7.2.0 kernel

[dcurtisfra]

Yes, I’m also extremely grateful for the efforts of the Packman contributors over the years.
And yes, after a ¼ of a century of quietly providing what many people need, the decision to move on is understandable.

---

So, I’ve made the move – I’ve reduced the number of packages I use in the Packman (Essentials) repository to zero. The following packages have either been removed or replaced – where possible – by packages available form the “standard” repositories –

• gstreamer-plugins-bad-codecs
• gstreamer-plugins-ugly-codecs
• libavcodec57
• libswresample2
• libavutil55
• libheif-HEIF
• chromium-plugin-widevinecdm
• faac
• libde265-0
• libx264-165
• libx265-215
• libSvtAv1Enc3
• libfaac0
• libopenaptx0
• librtmp1
• (replaced) gdk-pixbuf-loader-libheif
• (replaced) libheif1
• (replaced) libheif-svtenc
• (replaced) libheif-rav1e
• (replaced) libheif-openjpeg
• (replaced) libheif-openh264
• (replaced) libheif-jpeg
• (replaced) libheif-ffmpeg
• (replaced) libheif-dav1d
• (replaced) libheif-aom

The video H.264 support from the openSUSE OpenH264 repository removed the need for Packman for many user Use Cases.

---

The only remaining issue I have, is the HEIF/HEIC support – with the Packman libraries it worked as expected.

• With the openSUSE (Tumbleweed) libraries, it doesn’t behave as expected – despite having the “kf6-kimageformats” package installed – neither Gwenview nor digiKam nor GIMP can display .heic (HEIF) files …

All is not lost – I also have a MacBook with Apple silicon and therefore, not really an issue for me.

[OrsoBruno]

@dcurtisfra

With the openSUSE (Tumbleweed) libraries, it doesn’t behave as expected

Yes, that boils down to having no h265 (aka HEVC) decoders, which are still patent encumbered. The ffmpeg chain from Packman (that dozen packages you removed) had it all.

[Thor_Thenhammer]

The only remaining issue I have, is the HEIF/HEIC support – with the Packman libraries it worked as expected.

With the openSUSE (Tumbleweed) libraries, it doesn’t behave as expected – despite having the “kf6-kimageformats” package installed – neither Gwenview nor digiKam nor GIMP can display .heic (HEIF) files …

All is not lost – I also have a MacBook with Apple silicon and therefore, not really an issue for me.

I am using XnView as my main image viewer. It displays my .heic files fine.

[Kieltux]

Dear Packman Team,

My first successful steps with Linux were with SuSE Linux 6.2 (6 CDs, 2 floppy disks, and 4 thick manuals) in 1999.
Back then, I compiled the kernel “by hand” so that it would fit on the emergency boot floppy disk.

Thank you so much for your great work!
When software patents made using Linux generally more difficult, you were always the solution!
You provided me with the first MPlayer (back then still with the ripped Win32 codecs), and I was able to watch videos on SuSE/openSUSE.

At some point, I wanted to give something back, but my contribution remained rather small.

Personally, I wish you all the best!

Thank you,
Carsten

[susejunky]

@knurpht

Rude, very rude.

English is not my native language so if you found my post rude, please accept my apologies. I didn’t mean to hurt your or anyone else’s feelings.

Please let me put a few things straight:

• First of all I would like to thank the packman team for their excellent work and all the time and effort they spent to support me (and many others) for so many years.

• I do not complain about packman being shut down (for what ever reason).

• If any active packman member would have asked me last week “Should we stop or carry on?” my answer would have been “Stop immediately.” And if today anybody would ask me “Should we take over the Packman project?” my answer would be “No, don’t do it.” And all this answers would have nothing to do with the quality of the software provided by packman or the setup of the packman project. All this answers would be solely based on the discussion and the advice given here in this forum during the last weeks.

• From my point of view openSUSE is “hooked” on Flatpaks (it started a few years ago with a discussion on the openSUSE factory mailing list around ALP, containers, ro-root-fs and other subjects). Considering the fact of an ever shrinking contributor base (plus legal restrictions imposed by SUSE) there probably is no other way left but to use Flatpaks. And again I do and will not complain. I’m well aware that I use a “gifted horse” and I must not “look into its mouth”. Nevertheless if I realize that this horse does not carry me comfortable any longer I will be fair and tell the giver. And if the giver does not care about my feedback then this is fine with me too.

• It is entirely my decision which gift to take, which to refuse and which to hand back.

And again:

The explanations above are not intended to shoot the messenger or to hurt anyone’s private feelings. It is just to explain my private point of view.

[benmh]

I used Packman a lot in my beginning of openSUSE . But there is also a time to go further and that is now. Many thanks to the Packman workers you made open source open for a lot of people. Its time for flatpack now until they also disappear in time.

[knurpht]

@susejunky

plus legal restrictions imposed by SUSE

That is not the case. If openSUSE breaks the law, SUSE is liable.

@susejunky

From my point of view openSUSE is “hooked” on Flatpaks (it started a few years ago

For me thinking about this started on oSC15 in the Hague. At the BBQ party we were talking about how nice a universal way of packaging would be nice, and allow interdistro collaboration. And flatpaks sort of bring that.

@susejunky

From my point of view openSUSE is “hooked” on Flatpaks

Why do you need to disqualify other’s approach with terms like “addicted” and “hooked”? Are your arguments that bad that you need that?

FWIW, I am vey fine with Darktable and Digikam from flathub, and I am not addicted/hooked to/on flatpaks. And I know what I am doing without having to lean on opinions, but rather on facts.

[aoleks]

so realistically, how will people get codecs, onlyoffice and many other packages which can’t be installed without packman? who will supply those as an easy install???

[sfalken]

Flathub, snapcraft, appImage, vendors providing their own RPMs, potentially cpak or systemd-sysext

There’s a number of solutions.

[DuctTape]

@aoleks

so realistically, how will people get codecs, onlyoffice

Codecs are also available in the VLC repo in case you need the codecs on your system. For onlyoffice: I personally don’t use it but there is a flatpak version on flathub

[shieldizombie]

I guess I will change distro finally. I’m with OpenSUSE for a lot of years. But I don’t want to rely on flapaks, sorry

[arasaka]

That’s nothing to apologize for.

I’d recommend Void or Siduction if you need a rolling release with some added stability, and something Arch-based if you want a bleeding edge system and apps.

[susejunky]

@knurpht

If openSUSE breaks the law, SUSE is liable.

Yes and therefore SUSE poses restrictions on openSUSE otherwise there never would have been any need for packman ?

@knurpht

… a universal way of packaging would be nice, and allow interdistro collaboration. And flatpaks sort of bring that.

To build packages according to a certain standard is one thing. Who builds and distributes those packages is another.

@knurpht

Why do you need to disqualify other’s approach with terms like “addicted” and “hooked”?

In the cultural context I’m living in it is common to put a word in quotation marks when you want to show that you actually do not mean the (possibly negative) connotation of the word.

Slowly but surely, I can’t get rid of the feeling that you’re determined to take offence no matter what I say or how I phrase it.

@knurpht

Are your arguments that bad that you need that?

As I don’t want to argue I do not need any arguments. If you or anybody else likes to use Flatpaks or if the openSUSE community decides to base their distribution on Flatpaks that is perfectly fine with me.

But remember: It is entirely my decision which gift to take and which to refuse.

[deano_ferrari]

@susejunky

So even if many of the offerings from packman are not a game changer any longer the discussion here with “no need for packman” is from my point of view ungrateful at least.

I have used packman packages for nearly a quarter of a century and cannot remember one serious problem (waiting with a zypper dup for three days is not a problem to me).

So no different to most of us here then. I’m not sure you might think I don’t have similar view. My response was about keeping to the facts as delivered by the maintainers, and not imaginary things.

[conram]

@malcolmlewis That’s the only thing I need, the libheif.
You helped me with that for my need several years ago and if I’m not mistaken, from there on you are maintaining that package.

[conram]

@susejunky

@susejunky

I have used packman packages for nearly a quarter of a century and cannot
remember one serious problem (waiting with a zypper dup for three days is not a problem to me).

Same here