Many people in the past have not liked apper, but there have been a few
posts recently in one of the forums that apper is now goodwith 12.3.
For me, it is not an issue of good or bad, but of what it updates. I
generally prefer to not update anysoftware except those things which are
needed for security. So I have always uninstalled apper and just run
zypper patch every day.
Can someone explain the basic differencewith apper? My understanding is
that it gets any update for any software on your system. Is there a way
to set it up so that it only does security updates? How about only
security updates and certain software that you want to update when
something new comes out, but keep it from updating everything else?
–
G.O.
Box #1: 12.3 | KDE 4.10 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB
Box #2: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.1 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | 4GB
Laptop: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.2 | Core i7-2620M | 64 | 8GB
learning openSUSE and loving it
Apper needs a lot of progress to be sure, while a semi decent updater it does need more spunk put into it.
And maybe somehow gear it to be more like Ubuntu software center, at least for newer users.
While yes Yast is a great tool it does look intimidating to a new user not knowing what each package does and all that.
One thing I do like from Ubuntu software center (or the one in mint) is the general approach of keeping things simple.
Apper sort of does this but its clear its not nearly as easy to use IMHO.
Not dissing apper mind you, just pointing out that I do think its approach to software management could take lessons from the big U
On 03/22/2013 04:36 PM, MadmanRB wrote:
> Apper needs a lot of progress to be sure, while a semi decent updater it
> does need more spunk put into it.
> And maybe somehow gear it to be more like Ubuntu software center, at
> least for newer users.
> While yes Yast is a great tool it does look intimidating to a new user
> not knowing what each package does and all that.
> One thing I do like from Ubuntu software center (or the one in mint) is
> the general approach of keeping things simple.
> Apper sort of does this but its clear its not nearly as easy to use
> IMHO.
> Not dissing apper mind you, just pointing out that I do think its
> approach to software management could take lessons from the big U
>
>
If there is anyone out there that does use apper, can you tell us what
you like about it?
–
G.O.
Box #1: 12.3 | KDE 4.10 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB
Box #2: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.1 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | 4GB
Laptop: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.2 | Core i7-2620M | 64 | 8GB
learning openSUSE and loving it
On 2013-03-22 06:22, golson765 wrote:
> Just a question here -
>
> Many people in the past have not liked apper, but there have been a few
> posts recently in one of the forums that apper is now goodwith 12.3.
I do not use apper and that is not going to change. However, I keep more
or less a tab on what people comment on it.
> For me, it is not an issue of good or bad, but of what it updates. I
> generally prefer to not update anysoftware except those things which are
> needed for security. So I have always uninstalled apper and just run
> zypper patch every day.
Yes, that’s one strategy.
> Can someone explain the basic differencewith apper? My understanding is
> that it gets any update for any software on your system. Is there a way
> to set it up so that it only does security updates? How about only
> security updates and certain software that you want to update when
> something new comes out, but keep it from updating everything else?
It is more or less equivalent to “zypper up”, with the basic difference
that it does not require root permission to apply the updates. This
difference is important and interesting, so that the user that is
actually using the machine can do it. But it can also be a security risk
and do things contrary to what the sysadmin requires - like applying a
kernel update in the middle of the work day with people connected
remotely, and requiring a reboot.
Notice that to have security updates, if you use anything else besides
the default official updates, “zypper patch” or “YOU” is not enough.
Security updates affecting, say, packman packages, will not appear that way.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
On 03/22/2013 05:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Notice that to have security updates, if you use anything else besides
> the default official updates, “zypper patch” or “YOU” is not enough.
> Security updates affecting, say, packman packages, will not appear
> that way.
How do you get security updates for packman packages?
–
G.O.
Box #1: 12.3 | KDE 4.10 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB
Box #2: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.1 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | 4GB
Laptop: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.2 | Core i7-2620M | 64 | 8GB
learning openSUSE and loving it
I did not use Apper for 12.1 or 12.2. I have gone back to using it (starting yesterday), but this is mostly an experiment.
What I did not like, is that it occasionally locks out Yast. But I think that’s mainly a frustration shortly after a new install, when I am probably making software changes. Now that I am past that point with 12.3, I figure that it won’t hurt to try it again.
The positive feature of Apper, is that it notifies of available updates. Many users won’t check without a notifier, so I think most opensuse users should stay with Apper.
As to what it updates:
There are two kinds of updates that I see.
There are the patches, which show up in the updates repo;
There are updated versions of the software that are put in the regular repo.
Yast online update does only the first of those. The opensuse team is normally careful to do all updating that way. It is equivalent to “zypper patch”.
Apper does both of those kinds of update. The folk who manage the Packman repos do all of their updates the second way. If you use only Yast online update, you will miss updates to the packman repos, some of which might be security updates. What Apper does is equivalent to “zypper update”.
With 12.2, I used Yast online update (because it gives more information that “zypper patch”). And then, if there were updates, I followed with “zypper up”. I have done the same for the first week or so of 12.3. Now I’ll give Apper another chance. But I’ll admit that I am already inclined to not like Apper (after less than one day of trial).
Apper is just a simple front-end to PackageKit. The question is, are we looking at the latest version of PackageKit in openSUSE 12.3?
> And maybe somehow gear it to be more like Ubuntu software center, at
> least for newer users.
> While yes Yast is a great tool it does look intimidating to a new user
> not knowing what each package does and all that.
> One thing I do like from Ubuntu software center (or the one in mint) is
> the general approach of keeping things simple.
> Apper sort of does this but its clear its not nearly as easy to use
> IMHO.
> Not dissing apper mind you, just pointing out that I do think its
> approach to software management could take lessons from the big U
>
If there is anyone out there that does use apper, can you tell us what
you like about it?
I use it for all updates on 12.2 (since the beginning) and now 12.3, but mainly as KDE’s notifier/updater. For that, and with a single-user machine, the advantages of this desktop-user tool are:
No additional authorization needed to install updates from trusted repos.
Fewer clicks to move from notification to installed updates. That means security updates get implemented asap.
Updates from additional trusted repos are included (not so with YaST OU).
Themed and integrated with KDE desktop.
If openSUSE Project wants to develop a Software Centre facility for desktop users, then PackageKit may be the way forward, as a DE independent development. I don’t see the project going it alone with a bespoke application. Apper is simple, but definitely not pretending to offer that now.
For package management as a whole, I still use YaST (and zypper) as it provides much more info per package, such as version by repo, dependencies, file lists and change log. However it’s definitely a sysadmin tool.
On 2013-03-22 13:08, golson765 wrote:
> On 03/22/2013 05:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Notice that to have security updates, if you use anything else besides
>> the default official updates, “zypper patch” or “YOU” is not enough.
>> Security updates affecting, say, packman packages, will not appear
>> that way.
> How do you get security updates for packman packages?
Me, I go to the yast package manager, select view by repository,
packman, then right click on “update to newer version if available”.
Or I could simply run “zypper up”.
And I do that when I have the time. My network is slow, and often an
update requires at least a logout/in, so it has to be done when I have
finished doing what I need to.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)
+1 This sums it up for me. I’ve always uninstalled it with prior releases because it always blocked Yast/zypper. Now I can simply review the updates, click, and move on to something else. I’m not a sysadmin though (just a desktop user). When I first started using openSUSE, I had trouble getting my brain wrapped around the Yast vs zypper update differences. I understand the differences now, but don’t have to worry about it with apper for everyday updates/patches because it just grabs the newest versions of all enabled repos.
I use Apper, as an experiment. Must say, the main reasons for not using it -Apper not respecting vendor change on some repos, the blocking of the softwaremanager, which could not kill the P’kit daemon- have (almost completely) gone.
I did change Systemsettings - Policy for Actions - org.freedesktop - Update packages - active console to Adminstrator Authentication though.
Mainly testing. I do take objections like re. the example of an end user invoking a kernel update very serious. In general, in a network that I would have to manage, no matter what OS, I’m the one responsible for updating what, where and when, hence Apper would be pretty useless. Hence I created my own 12.2 image with Studio ( no Apper, Packagekit - with Packman )…
On the other hand, for non professional usage, why allow updating a browser or emailclient and not a kernel. The issues one can have re. NVIDIA / ATI etc. aren’t Apper’s mistake.
A thing I did not mention, is that I do like the layout, specially the small info window with screenshot/logo.
One couldn’t tolerate that in a business situation, and probably not helpful at home when administering a multi-user (family/friends/sharers) system. I understand those situations.
On 03/22/2013 10:16 PM, nrickert wrote:
> With 12.2, I used Yast online update (because it gives more
> information that “zypper patch”). And then, if there were updates, I
> followed with “zypper up”. I have done the same for the first week or
> so of 12.3. Now I’ll give Apper another chance. But I’ll admit that I
> am already inclined to not like Apper (after less than one day of trial).
Good ideas, everyone. I think I will have to give it a try.
–
G.O.
Box #1: 12.3 | KDE 4.10 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB
Box #2: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.1 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | 4GB
Laptop: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.2 | Core i7-2620M | 64 | 8GB
learning openSUSE and loving it
On 03/23/2013 05:16 AM, consused wrote:
> Knurpht;2539626 Wrote:
>> I use Apper, as an experiment…
>> I did change Systemsettings - Policy for Actions - org.freedesktop -
>> Update packages - active console to Adminstrator Authentication though.
> Useful to know that works as expected. No doubt you have good reason to
> restrict usage.
>
>
Found this thread again. Just to point out here, I did the same thing as
above to change to Administrator Authentication, but apper still does
not require administrator authentication for the updates. Any ideas from
anyone on how to make it require administrator authentication?
–
G.O.
Box #1: 12.3 | KDE 4.10 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 16GB
Box #2: 12.2 | KDE 4.9.2 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | 4GB
Laptop: 12.2 | KDE 4.10 | Core i7-2620M | 64 | 8GB
learning openSUSE and loving it
PS. Just seen your other thread started re this. It would have been helpful to include the link for that here, to avoid having two threads covering the same issue.
I have been testing apper here on a couple of computers and so far it has worked great. I will say if you have packman repo enabled ( for multimedia) then you will most likely get daily updates and that can get a little annoying. The reason it is annoying is because it slows the system down right after login, if I had a suggestion it would be to put a 10 minute delay on when apper checks for updates.
