Obtained the 11.3 and 11.4 DVD(s) and tried to run an upgrade/update via the DVD(s). Both generate an enormous list with “conflicts”. It starts with the first screen with 3 conflicts and after the choices have been made the next screen shows up with an effectively unmanageable list of conflicts.
Worse, the DVD upgrade procedures touch and change files on the system in the /etc directory without consent!
The description is good, however the description does not even mention the possibility of “conflicts” that have to be resolved. The word “conflict” does not even appear on the page.
It appears to me that these “tested” upgrades have been tried on a pristine 11.2 and a pristine 11.3! If so, it would be good to mention this!
After effectively wasting hours trying to resolve conflicts, searching through forums and Internet to find a solution the general impression is that “upgrade” although supposedly supported https://features.opensuse.org/305634 does not REALLY work as seamless as pretended.
Several posts on the forum suggest a clean install as “upgrades are quirky”.
Needless to say… Clean installs (even when all data remains in place) are unacceptable!
I have run openSUSE now for a number of years for desktop solutions. Within a version 11.0, 11.1, 11.2 YaST and zypper seem to perform well upgrading those versions.
However, upgrading versions alike 11.0->11.1 has caused serious headaches and/or required complete reinstalls.
When I compare this to FreeBSD The FreeBSD Project, where through a described upgrade process of cvsup->build->install I have upgraded systems alike 5.2->5.3->5.4->6.2->6.3->6.4->7.2->7.3 without a hitch the upgrade solutions for openSUSE just do not cut it.
At this point I am strongly leaning towards leaving openSUSE for what it is and moving to an other Linux (RedHat?) for desktop solutions.
So your message is more of one of condemnation that a request for help. I think most of us would like to see painless upgrades, and I think depending on the installed software, perhaps still possible. But if you skip a version, such as going from openSUSE 11.2 to openSUSE 11.4, the more likely you will encounter big problems. We are just volunteers here and try to help anyone we can. It is my suggestion (and opinion) to anyone that asks, do a clean install of openSUSE and maintain a separate /home partition. When you install openSUSE, make sure to mount only, the /home partition and to not reformat it then your personnel settings are maintained and you only need to reload the same applications that you were using before you did the clean install. It is our lot in life at present. I must say that openSUSE is surely worth ever penny it costs and we do our darnedest to help you get everything you need working. Some things though require extra effort on your part and the upgrade verses doing a clean install must be handled on your nickle.
However, we are here to help solve any one issue that we can. Normally I suggest a DVD based upgrade which can work and not one done online with zypper, which fails most often.
After the upgrade from a DVD I normally suggest you start YaST / Software / Software Repositories (You must enter your password to start YaST).
Make sure only openSUSE 11.4 entries are present and add in the Packman repository for Multimedia to work. Next, here is my basic advice on the issue:
So, start YaST / Software / Software Management (You must enter your password to start YaST).
Then, in Software Management I do a:
Options / Allow Vendor Change (Place an X there)
Package / All Packages / Update if Newer Version Available (Agree if there are several Packages to update)
You will then be presented with your choices to remove the conflict if one exists.
I normally make the following suggestions to all that have such problems:
To avoid package problems, the most important thing to do is to: NEVER ignore a dependency, even if YaST/zypper/updater gives you such an option! In general, never switch to an >inferior< architecture and the solution is most often to just switch Vendor to the >Packman< repository. So changing the vendor is OK, but >ignoring< dependencies is never a very good idea!
Indeed the message is not so much a request for help. Not sure if “Condemnation” is the right label/word/term.
The information on the website suggest an easy and painless upgrade from 11.2 to 11.3. It never even mentions the possibility of dependency issues/conflicts. Not setting people (user) up right will cause disappointment. My personal preference is to have the possibility of issues/conflicts at least mentioned and provide additional information with regards to “how to” handle the conflicts once they occur.
As I mention in the first post.
Currently running openSUSE 11.2 (completely up-to-date according to zypper)
Tried DVD upgrade to 11.4 without success: Too many conflicts to resolve.
Tried DVD upgrade to 11.3 without success: Too many conflicts to resolve.
I tried it with and without skipping a version. Not much difference in the number of conflicts to resolve.
I have used Unix and alike (Linux) operating systems for 20+ years. The system is setup with several file systems:
/ (root)
/var
/tmp
/usr
etc, etc, etc
so the separation you suggest between system and user data has been accomplished.
No disagreement there. It is a great Linux distribution. Definitely one of the better once out there.
I guess…
Tried that first an had the same experience with conflicts.
Are you referring to a DVD upgrade or to a DVD (re)install here?
Do you do this as a separate process after a DVD upgrade or after a DVD (re)install?
As far as I can tell the DVD upgrade tries to do this and than reports under packages that there are conflicts that have to be manually handled.
I am guessing that you bypass the (manual handling of) conflicts during the DVD upgrade and handle them (manually) after the DVD upgrade.
Agreed…
Thanks for the followup… Might try once more skipping the conflict resolution during DVD upgrade and handling it after wards as you describe.
Do you do this as a separate process after a DVD upgrade or after a DVD (re)install?
As far as I can tell the DVD upgrade tries to do this and than reports under packages that there are conflicts that have to be manually handled.
I am guessing that you bypass the (manual handling of) conflicts during the DVD upgrade and handle them (manually) after the DVD upgrade.
Yes, after the DVD install, this process can be used to remedy the conflicts. The DVD, which contains more software than a LiveCD can also be used to do an upgrade. Further, it will modify existing openSUSE Repositories to point to the new OS version. It is still best to remove or disable a repository intended for the older OS before you start the upgrade to prevent any possible problems with mixed software versions.
Agreed…
Thanks for the followup… Might try once more skipping the conflict resolution during DVD upgrade and handling it after wards as you describe.
Thanks!
Jan
Jan we want happy users of openSUSE. If I could produce a bullet proof openSUSE upgrade version, I would do it myself, but alas I am just not that smart. The number of packages and their interactions make an upgrade much more difficult than it used to be. First off, following my very own advice I have done upgrades. Even so, odd things seem to occur that no one else sees and you can’t seem to explain it. Faced with such issues, it is just not all that much trouble to reinstall openSUSE while keeping your personnel setup intact. I do know and very much understand that some installations are very specialized and that an upgrade seems like the best avenue to take. I know that some have simply put off upgrades until their current version is way out of date. There are no easy answers here, just a desire to help you over the hump if we can. I wish you good luck in what ever you decide to do and don’t take it on alone, come and ask for help. We always try our best to help someone who is also trying to help themselves.
You may also be interested in project Evergreen - long term support for version 11.1 (and recently for 11.2 IINM).
But for mission-critical systems as yours seem to be you really should look at SLED/SLES - there you’ll have professional support for issues like this.
OK! Will try that instead of trying to resolve the issues during the DVD upgrade.
I know… And trust me… Generally I am a VERY happy user of openSUSE…
FreeBSD does it by separating the Operating System from the packages/ports.
When an Operating System upgrade is performed via cvsup->build->install (the way I generally do it) packages are not upgraded. FreeBSD makes sure that the newer system API is backward compatible. Additionally I can perform a ports-upgrade (package upgrade).
I always advocate… Even to Windows users! To keep their personal files separate, even separate from where the operating system (or applications) think they should. It makes backup/restore and often upgrades (including hardware) much easier!
Well, I guess that would be almost me… I use video drivers and other things that are sometimes limited. So for a while I had to stick with 11.2. The drivers now have been upgraded to support 11.3 and 11.4. So before 11.2 is EOL it would be good to upgrade and try to stay somewhat current with a stable release.
I run VMware Workstation almost from the moment the Operating System starts to when it shuts down.
Even with a clean install, while keeping personal stuff separated openSUSE is much less of an headache than Windows is…
Even with a clean install, while keeping personal stuff separated openSUSE is much less of an headache than Windows is…
Thanks!
Jan
You are very welcome Jan. Don’t forget our offer to help.
My suggestion for help in this forum is to create your own new message in the forum section that best matches the issue. If you have several problems, it it often best to separate unrelated issues apart and start a separate message somewhere better suited to the other issues. If it is hardware related, make sure we know all about your hardware. If it is software related, make sure you state all you can about your software. Be complete, but no novels please. I have seen some fantastic messages posted before, but if it takes 30 minutes to read and understand the message, many people will simple not try. So, with multiple issues, several short and complete help requests are better than one big one. If you have a general comment, even and including you are unhappy with something, post that in Community & Fun / Soapbox. We all have issues we want to get off our … err … chests as it were. We want to hear what you have to say, but if its opinion, then it is not a help request. If you spend a little time to see how the forum works, you would not believe the help and response here that you can get.
Did You try live upgrades ? I’ve done this without any problems since 11.2 up to 11.4 (two upgrades so far 11.2->11.3 and 11.3->11.4) exactly as described in the link You’ve posted here. Also keep in mind that for some distributions (e.g. CentOS) the upgrades are not supported at all so I’m happy with what we’ve got especially it seems to be changing for the better.
I tried the DVD upgrade to upgrade 11.2 to 11.4 again and tried to bypass the conflicts in the packages. The installer does NOT allow that. Seems that the conflicts have to be resolved before the installer will continue.
Instead of trying to go through the the conflicts again I rebooted 11.2, unlocked the pulse* packages and upgraded them. Those had been locked because pulse-audio just did (does?) not work well on Dual Quad Core hardware.
After I restarted from the DVD and started the upgrade there were 2 conflicts which resolved and the upgrade went smooth.
At the end of the (unattended) upgrade the system seemed to wait or hang. I left it for an hour+ in that condition without change. Forced a reboot. The system came up fine, but hang on the old video driver. Rebooted in Safe mode and installed the latest driver. Rebooted again and the system came up fine. Except for a few minor things the upgrade seemed to work well this way.
I guess the “lesson learned” here is to unlock locked packages and upgrade them before attempting a system upgrade.
Anyway, from my experience and the “official” recommendations that I’m aware of it’s best to upgrade one step at a time. So the preferred path would be 11.2->11.3->11.4 but it may be that the recommendation is just for live upgrades (I honestly don’t know). As far as I’ve read advice of some experienced users here, they say that with the DVD it’s possible but can be troublesome to jump more versions in between the upgrades.
But don’t take anything I say for granted. This is “educated speculation”
> Anyway, from my experience and the “official” recommendations that I’m
> aware of it’s best to upgrade one step at a time. So the preferred path
> would be 11.2->11.3->11.4 but it may be that the recommendation is just
> for live upgrades (I honestly don’t know).
That is correct, live upgrades are only supported for a 1 version jump.
> As far as I’ve read advice of
> some experienced users here, they say that with the DVD it’s possible
> but can be troublesome to jump more versions in between the upgrades.
> But don’t take anything I say for granted. This is “educated
> speculation”
Yes, you can jump more than one version with the DVD, and sometimes is
necessary because the intermediate version doesn’t work for you.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
On 2011-09-21 13:26, janknepper wrote:
>
> I tried the DVD upgrade to upgrade 11.2 to 11.4 again and tried to
> bypass the conflicts in the packages. The installer does NOT allow that.
> Seems that the conflicts have to be resolved before the installer will
> continue.
Yes, that is correct.
> Instead of trying to go through the the conflicts again I rebooted
> 11.2, unlocked the pulse* packages and upgraded them. Those had been
> locked because pulse-audio just did (does?) not work well on Dual Quad
> Core hardware.
Ah! You had locked packages. Interesting.
> After I restarted from the DVD and started the upgrade there were 2
> conflicts which resolved and the upgrade went smooth.
Well, that’s seems to be a point to add to the documentation.
> At the end of the (unattended) upgrade the system seemed to wait or
> hang.
Video. 11.2 to 11.4 is problematic in that respect.
> I guess the “lesson learned” here is to unlock locked packages and
> upgrade them before attempting a system upgrade.
Indeed!
I had the intention to document in the wiki the DVD upgrade method, it is
missing there. But I’m always postponing that chore…
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
> It appears to me that these “tested” upgrades have been tried on a
> pristine 11.2 and a pristine 11.3! If so, it would be good to mention
> this!
tell me: if the system to be upgraded is not “pristine” then how
‘broken’ should it be assumed to be, and in what ways?
see: if the upgrade system must be crafted to include each and every
“non-pristine” case, and all the possible permutations thereof…well,
the very idea of an upgrade would be impossible…
anyway, http://tinyurl.com/35p966c says “Be aware that in principle,
this upgrade process is considered “best effort” only. . . . The
supported starting point is the last openSUSE release with all current
updates applied.”
personally, i never upgrade, instead i save off data, do a format and
fresh install (including /home) and then rejoin data into the “pristine”
new system, and then strive to keep it that way (by not chasing the tip
of the spear, or dipping into Factory or bleeding edge KDE etc)…doing
so, i can generally avoid a very large percentage of the problems seen
in these fora…
ymmv
–
DD
openSUSE®, the “German Automobiles” of operating systems
so I’m happy with what we’ve got especially it seems to be changing for the better.